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I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But... 
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Goubot wrote:
What would it do to McGrady's legacy if the team moves on to the second round without him, though? It could happen if they snag homecourt.


Besides showing up out of shape for a team which welcomed him with open arms and gave him millions of dollars, timing his injury news around the trade dead-line and sitting on the bench with those aforementioned millions, what possible legacy is there left to endure? He's cancer.


Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:19 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Goubot wrote:
What would it do to McGrady's legacy if the team moves on to the second round without him, though? It could happen if they snag homecourt.


Man, I hope this happens. I don't think they will because Utah is going to pass them. Also, they'll probably play Utah or New Orleans in the first round, and I don't think they can beat either team.

Regardless though, Tracy McGrady might be the most overrated player in the history of the NBA. He's a fake superstar. He's never won anything, he's a black hole, and he's a crybaby. I love the story about him telling the media how great it is to be in the second round when the Magic were up 3-1 on the Pistons, and they ended up losing the series. He went 7-24 from the field in Game 7 of that series. He's a stat-sheet filling bum.


Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:38 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
The Jazz are officially playing the best ball in the league right now. 12 wins in a row in a league this bewilderingly inconsistent is a staggering achievement. I put them solidly at #4, right beind the main three teams and right ahead of 'left-for-dead' Orlando.


Now, which one of the three top teams is number 1...?


Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:02 am
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
If pushed to a decision, I'd take the Celtics. They know how to win in the playoffs, on the road, and in just about every situation possible. They have great leadership, play great team defense, and have a superstar that can take over games. The Cavs and Lakers have some of those things, but not all of them.

Aside from Lebron, you don't really know how the rest of that team is going to respond in the playoffs, especially on the road. Mo Williams is playing great, but how will he respond when they're down 5 with 2 mins left in Boston? You just don't know right now. You know the C's will respond positively, so that's a huge advantage. Lebron is as good as it gets, but even he can't completely carry a team to a title. He needs some help and Mo is the guy they brought in to give it to him. The big question is, will he?

The Lakers are great, but the C's just beat them up in the Finals last year. Now, with Bynum out again, will the same thing happen? I think they'll most likely come out of the West, and I think they're hoping to play Cleveland. Odom has been playing well, but he and Gasol are much more finesse guys. They don't want to bang down low with Garnett, Perkins, Powe, and Davis.

When healthy, I still the C's as the favorite.


Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:24 am
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
I agree that the Lakers would rather play the Cavs, but I wouldn't at all count out the Lakers against Boston.

Look, no one on the planet is a bigger Boston fan than me, but how quickly we forget: the "comeback" game, while no doubt impressive, came on a night when Kobe was AWFUL. If he's decent the Lakers win that, and perhaps the series.

I'd still put my money on the Celtics because I believe they'll be healthy at the right time. I don't like the idea that they are the favorites until they lose, but as has been pointed out, they posses championship-level qualities that no other team holds.


Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:22 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
I give it to Boston for a very simple but powerful reason; Paul Pierce is the best defender LeBron or Kobe will see in the playoffs. He makes their shots unerringly difficult, possession after possession. He can make them lesser factors in the game, which is huge considering how one-dimensional Cleveland is, and when Garnett gets back they can potentially stop Gasol from being effective as well. What are the Lakers without Kobe and Gasol? The new Clippers, that's what.


The Celtics won the East in my mind by beating Cleveland, evenly and thoroughly, without Garnett, and with his immediate back-up ejected in the third quarter. Most teams would need to make a trade mid-game to compensate for these inadequacies. They simply rolled over Cleveland, and for my money, people put far too much stock in LA's overtime squeak over Boston when the two are compared.


Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:44 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Evenflow8112 wrote:
The Celtics won the East in my mind by beating Cleveland, evenly and thoroughly, without Garnett, and with his immediate back-up ejected in the third quarter. Most teams would need to make a trade mid-game to compensate for these inadequacies. They simply rolled over Cleveland, and for my money, people put far too much stock in LA's overtime squeak over Boston when the two are compared.


Precisely. And yeah, the Lakers won the season series over Boston...but the Christmas Day game they had circled on their calandar in August, and they HAD to win that game, and the OT loss with Boston clearly not in top form is not immaterial, but is hardly proof of Boston's place below LA.

As far as you first point, I agree very much about the troble Pierce gives Kobe and Bron Bron, and in addition, both have a bit of trouble guarding him.


Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:18 pm
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Gotta love how everyone seems to forgetting about my favorite team, the Spurs. How everyone said "they were done" when they started the season 0-3 and lost Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili for a few weeks. They are now second out West. How everyone forgets that due to a terrible no-call in last year's playoff series against the Lakers (Derek Fisher is allowed to plow into Brent Barry but no foul?), Manu playing on one leg with a bum ankle, and the two blown leads the Spurs suffered, they were right up with the Lakers last year.

Tomorrow is a big (but not TOO big) showdown for the Spurs and Lakers. Obviously, the Spurs don't have Manu yet because of his other leg now (great...), and I don't think Drew Gooden (great add) will be ready for action just yet.

That said, the Lakers are tough, but not invincible like everyone is claiming they are. I'm getting so tired of the "they're without Andrew Bynum" complaint, they've proved to be a faster, more up-tempo, and overall better team without Bynum! Plus the kid, like Oden, just can't stay healthy. If the Spurs can get healthy and actually get some calls in the playoffs (NBA refs are the worst people at their jobs, I don't know how many times I've said this though...), I love their chances against the Lakers. If the 06' Mavericks proved anything about winning 67 games in the regular season, its that winning a ton of games in the regular season (like the Lakers are doing this season) will only tire your squad out so that when it comes time for playoff time, they won't be 100%.

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Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:42 pm
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
No doubt the Spurs are the interesting dark horse, but they could easily be little more. I'm not confident in them this year.


Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:20 am
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
That's what they're used to. I don't think there's ever been a year when they've won the title that they were the absolute favorite. Its always been the Mavs, Lakers, Suns (which is laughable now), etc. I still like their chances, if they can get healthy, they already beat the Lakers once this season, and Roger Mason is proving to be one of the biggest clutch shooters in the league. I think if Gooden finds his role and rebounds and defends, you could see the Spurs vs. Lakers representing the West yet again (only this time, hopefully with different results).

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Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:19 am
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
DunkinDan is right about the Spurs. They are the one team in the playoffs that doesn't need homecourt to win any series. My concern is they are getting old and Manu seems to be breaking down. As for the playoffs though, there is no reason to think they can't win the whole thing. By their standards, they're pretty much due to win it. Haven't they won a title every other year for quite a while now? I think it's been 3 titles(or 6 years) in a row they've done that. Tim Duncan is easily the most underappreciated superstar in the history of the NBA.

As a Wizards fan, I'm furious that we didn't resign Mason. They guy developed into a solid role player and great shooter with us and we let him walk as soon as he became a good player. I was telling everyone I could about how great he was playing last year and how good he would be wherever he went. I'm happy for him, because I like him as a player, that the league is starting to take notice of how good he is. He's been a huge addition to the Spurs this season.


Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:23 am
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
PeachyPete wrote:
DunkinDan is right about the Spurs. They are the one team in the playoffs that doesn't need homecourt to win any series. My concern is they are getting old and Manu seems to be breaking down. As for the playoffs though, there is no reason to think they can't win the whole thing. By their standards, they're pretty much due to win it. Haven't they won a title every other year for quite a while now? I think it's been 3 titles(or 6 years) in a row they've done that. Tim Duncan is easily the most underappreciated superstar in the history of the NBA.

As a Wizards fan, I'm furious that we didn't resign Mason. They guy developed into a solid role player and great shooter with us and we let him walk as soon as he became a good player. I was telling everyone I could about how great he was playing last year and how good he would be wherever he went. I'm happy for him, because I like him as a player, that the league is starting to take notice of how good he is. He's been a huge addition to the Spurs this season.


They've won during every odd year since '03, and they won before that in '99. The "they're getting old" argument has been used like for the past three years though, so until it proves true that they don't win on an odd year, I'm not buying it. Manu has been banged up this season but its mostly due to the ankle he hurt in last year's playoff series against the Hornets. This is just a mild ankle thing on his other ankle, I think he could actually go now, but Pop wants to make sure he's 100% for the playoffs, which isn't a bad thing, because when you have Roger Mason knocking down 4-5 three's a game, you're in good hands. I think the Lakers still deserve to be the favorite, but I just love how the media constantly forgets about the Spurs but then jumps on them as soon as they start doing well again. I'm looking forward to tonight's game even though the Spurs will be without both Manu and Drew Gooden, should be a good one.

It really sucks to be a Wizards fan, I hear you there. You have a tool of a best player in Gilbert "I'm so unselfish for ONLY taking 100 million dollars!" Arenas, although I gotta give Caron Butler and Antawn Jamison a lot of credit for treating the situation their in with professionalism, they're in a tough spot and they definitely deserve to be on a better team, but they're just going along their business. You should've resigned Mason, he averaged...what, 17 ppg when Arenas got hurt at the end of last year? That's a crime, it seems everything the Spurs touch turns to gold. I'm lucky to be a fan of them since I was five.

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Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:40 pm
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Guys, I've heard every variation on this story. I am saying that the last year of the Spurs being a playoff threat was 2008. They are far too inconsistent and injury-plagued to be half as successful. They might not make it past their first series. I don't buy the odd numbers argument, by the way - how does that explain 2001?

They are no longer a lock, because the core of the team is disintegrating. I hate to say it, but five (championships) is enough for them, and Duncan's number will likely end there. There's no way they hang with either of the top three teams in a 7 game series.


Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:47 pm
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Evenflow8112 wrote:
Guys, I've heard every variation on this story. I am saying that the last year of the Spurs being a playoff threat was 2008. They are far too inconsistent and injury-plagued to be half as successful. They might not make it past their first series. I don't buy the odd numbers argument, by the way - how does that explain 2001?

They are no longer a lock, because the core of the team is disintegrating. I hate to say it, but five (championships) is enough for them, and Duncan's number will likely end there. There's no way they hang with either of the top three teams in a 7 game series.



You should read posts more carefully, and check your facts. I said SINCE 03' they've won every odd year, that doesn't include 2001. They've actually only won four championships, not five, although that's still impressive for a ten year span. How do you explain the injuries to Duncan in 2005 against Detroit near the end of the season? He returned and they won the championship. Manu's had to battle an array of injuries throughout his career (probably due to the way he plays), and they've won three titles with him. You say they might not get past the first round, how does that figure into your logic when you say "they don't have a chance with sticking with the top three teams in the league". Uhh....they might not be in the top 3 of the league right now, but they're the #2 seed out West, still pretty darn good IMO. I would say they have a pretty good shot of getting to the Finals, I really think the best three teams out West are the Lakers, Spurs, and Jazz. But with the way the chips fall, I think you can see Utah once again bowing out to L.A in the second round only to meet...who else? The Spurs.

As far as your "inconsistent" argument, how do you explain the fact that they have the best winning percentage among all sports teams in the country over the last ten years, and currently their record stands at 42-20, your making it sound like they're hovering around .500.

All I'm saying is that I've heard the "too old" and "they're injured" complaints since the 2004 season, and they've continually proven that argument has yet to be proven.

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Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:02 pm
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
you're*

San Antonio is #2 in the West, but take into account this is removed by less than four games from the #7 seed, and by as few as 2.5 games from #3, and all of the teams directly below them have been surging. Including even Denver, who are admittedly on a cold streak, they all have a great-to-fair chance of threatening San Antonio's seed.

Yeah, they're not consistent this season. I said nothing about the last ten years. I'm not attacking their legacy. You can breathe normally again. In March, teams they beat: Clippers, Phoenix, Charlotte, and Washington. They lost to: Dallas, Portland (in an uneven contest, even with Duncan playing). Way to win the big ones. They are 9-9 against Western playoff teams (not counting preseason results, which would make them 9-11), they are 23rd in league scoring, and their differential is over 2 points lower than the 'elite' (Boston, Cleveland, Los Angeles, and Olrando). They are 19th in the league in rebounding defensively. They are a once great team wearing down gradually to a nub. I'm not saying they will be a disaster anytime soon, but they are undoubtedly in decline. They have gone from 63 to 58 to 56 in the past three seasons, and it's doubtful that they will match even that low this season.

I can see them making a first round exit because, again, I don't think they have the ability to win consistently against almost any other Western team making a playoff push, and although they would beat the Mavericks easily, I cannot make the same case for teams 3-7. You think getting out of the first round will be easy? I don't see how they have an edge over any of these teams in a way that would dictate a guaranteed win. I compared them to the 'Big Three' to show how far they had fallen, and how unlikely them winning this year is, not implying that they are #4 in the equation. I would give this spot to the Jazz, and I think Houston and New Olreans are now deserving of serious consideration, especially since the latter are now truly balanced and Houston really has awoken from it's McGrady-induced slumber. Then it comes to Portland and Denver for #7, and I don't see either being a walk in the park - the Spurs are 2-4 to both teams this season. I think you're drawing from San Antonio's mythic resilience and not basing any of your points in reality.


Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:43 pm
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Evenflow8112 wrote:
you're*

San Antonio is #2 in the West, but take into account this is removed by less than four games from the #7 seed, and by as few as 2.5 games from #3, and all of the teams directly below them have been surging. Including even Denver, who are admittedly on a cold streak, they all have a great-to-fair chance of threatening San Antonio's seed.

Yeah, they're not consistent this season. I said nothing about the last ten years. I'm not attacking their legacy. You can breathe normally again. In March, teams they beat: Clippers, Phoenix, Charlotte, and Washington. They lost to: Dallas, Portland (in an uneven contest, even with Duncan playing). Way to win the big ones. They are 9-9 against Western playoff teams (not counting preseason results, which would make them 9-11), they are 23rd in league scoring, and their differential is over 2 points lower than the 'elite' (Boston, Cleveland, Los Angeles, and Olrando). They are 19th in the league in rebounding defensively. They are a once great team wearing down gradually to a nub. I'm not saying they will be a disaster anytime soon, but they are undoubtedly in decline. They have gone from 63 to 58 to 56 in the past three seasons, and it's doubtful that they will match even that low this season.

I can see them making a first round exit because, again, I don't think they have the ability to win consistently against almost any other Western team making a playoff push, and although they would beat the Mavericks easily, I cannot make the same case for teams 3-7. You think getting out of the first round will be easy? I don't see how they have an edge over any of these teams in a way that would dictate a guaranteed win. I compared them to the 'Big Three' to show how far they had fallen, and how unlikely them winning this year is, not implying that they are #4 in the equation. I would give this spot to the Jazz, and I think Houston and New Olreans are now deserving of serious consideration, especially since the latter are now truly balanced and Houston really has awoken from it's McGrady-induced slumber. Then it comes to Portland and Denver for #7, and I don't see either being a walk in the park - the Spurs are 2-4 to both teams this season. I think you're drawing from San Antonio's mythic resilience and not basing any of your points in reality.


Preseason games? Are you seriously factoring in PRESEASON GAMES into your argument? Lol, I'm not sure I've ever even seen that before. This is typical Spurs basketball, they never have great regular seasons, but they're always ready for the playoffs. As Pop has said, "I don't care about the regular season". You're looking at regular seasons way to closely, the playoffs are when it matters, and they aren't in the best of shape right now, but if Manu and Drew can insert themselves in their roles with a few weeks to go, they should be well-rested and ready for another great playoff run.

You must have also forgotten that whenever the Spurs play Denver in the first round, Denver gets the crap kicked out of them. I'm scared of Portland, but not to the degree that I think they can seriously knock us out. New Orleans has been in a weird funk and I have concerns about their chemistry seeing they failed trying to trade Chandler away. Playoffs are when it matters, not regular season.

I think your doing the opposite. Your not looking at what the Spurs have proved in the past. People predicted Denver, heck last year people called Phoenix knocking them out in the first round! How did that turn up? Your looking at the hype too closely, teams like Portland and New Orleans who lack playoff experience (New Orleans made it for the first time in a LONG time just last year...) against playoff-tested and championship winners.

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Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:03 pm
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
DunkinDan89 wrote:
Preseason games? Are you seriously factoring in PRESEASON GAMES into your argument? Lol, I'm not sure I've ever even seen that before.


The sad fact is that I never did; note how I separated them. Regardless, it would beat mentioning a player with zero minutes for his team so far (Gooden) in a playoff argument.

I don't really consider your post much of a response, at all, and I don't have an answer from you as far as their statistical decline is concerned. This team is getting old, battered, and there is no guarantee that they will enter the playoffs healthy even if Manu does come back. You expect them to go the rest of the season without having one or two more injuries? I don't. That's how they have been this season.


Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:27 pm
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Evenflow8112 wrote:
DunkinDan89 wrote:
Preseason games? Are you seriously factoring in PRESEASON GAMES into your argument? Lol, I'm not sure I've ever even seen that before.


The sad fact is that I never did; note how I separated them. Regardless, it would beat mentioning a player with zero minutes for his team so far (Gooden) in a playoff argument.

I don't really consider your post much of a response, at all, and I don't have an answer from you as far as their statistical decline is concerned. This team is getting old, battered, and there is no guarantee that they will enter the playoffs healthy even if Manu does come back. You expect them to go the rest of the season without having one or two more injuries? I don't. That's how they have been this season.


Haha ok. You didn't technically include preseason, but you added in the stat anyways, saying they would be 9-11 if preseason counted, I just thought that was funny because I've never seen anyone factor in preseason games, directly or just as a side note, into their argument at all.

Gooden isn't God, but he's a great role player. He started for the Cavs in the 2007 Finals, and he's still young (27) and I expect him to become a major contributor for the Spurs playoff run. I'm just saying you keep on saying they're old and battered, and I keep telling you that yes, that is how it is EVERY year, yet they still fight through it and surprise everyone in the playoffs. Same thing will happen this postseason :)

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Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:30 pm
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Ladies and gentleman, your San Antonio Spurs! Make that 9-10 against Western playoff teams. Why does everyone forget they won only one against L.A. last year?


To refute your argument about experience over pure quality, how does this explain the Boston Celtics last year?


Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:46 pm
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Must you forget they didn't have Manu Ginobili and they still almost beat the Lakers tonight (coming back from a huge defecit no less). With Manu, guess what, we're 1-1 against the Lakers. Oh how you take regular season games so seriously, it makes me laugh. Talk to me come playoff time and I think you'll see what I'm talking about, but its pointless to debate when all you do is look at the regular season stats and think it actually matters in the playoffs. It doesn't.

About the Celtics. Are you kidding me? The Celtics had been to the playoffs plenty of times during Pierce's early years. Allen had been there with the Bucks and Sonics. KG had gone to the Western Conference Finals when he was with the T'Wolves. Put those three on the same team together, you have a good shot at winning a championship. Not that hard.

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Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:34 pm
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