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BLUE VALENTINE 
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Post BLUE VALENTINE
Click here for the review of Blue Valentine

SPOILERS must be tagged with the "SPOILER" tag!


Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:53 pm
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Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
Another great one I'll have to wait for Netflix to get. Tis the peril of living in small town America ;)


Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:28 pm
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Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
jksander wrote:
Another great one I'll have to wait for Netflix to get. Tis the peril of living in small town America ;)


If some Oscar nominations result for this, it might go wider (>1000 screens), so if you at least have a 12-screen multiplex around, you should be able to see it. TWC is holding back on opening this wide in favor of THE KING'S SPEECH, which they currently feel has greater Oscar potential.


Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:16 am
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Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
So it might go as wide as Louisville. That might be worth a drive then come March ;)

The theater here in town does as good a job as a small town theater can, but it took them until this week to get "True Grit," they're so far down on the list. The guy who runs the place hates 3D because of all the new movies coming out that don't even get pushed properly in 2D. And he refuses to pay for a 3D projector because then he'd have to raise prices. Right now we can see a movie in town for $6, $4 if it's a matinee, and you can actually get a large popcorn (with refills) and two medium sodas (with refills) for $8. The poor guy's probably losing money on the whole venture, but you can tell he loves movies, so it must be worth it for him.

As for TWC's stance on "The King's Speech," they're probably right, knowing the Oscars.


Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:55 pm
Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
BTW, James, I think it's interesting that this movie got the NC-17 and then was "reconsidered" without changes to get the "R" ... made me kind of wonder if the Weinsteins may have had something to do with encouraging the original harsher rating and then requesting the reconsideration so they could have the initial stigma of an NC-17 and then the curiosity seekers would go see it rated "R" and wonder which scenes were responsible ...

... but I'm probably giving everyone involved too much credit. Guess they just lucked into free publicity for a movie worthy of seeing. And after seeing Michelle Williams act in Brokeback Mountain, I'll trust that she's got the good taste to pick movies worth being in. I've wanted to see this one just because she and Gosling are in it (both actors I really enjoy watching).


Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:59 pm
Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
I didn't see the film yet, but after I read the review, it made me think at the French movie "5x2":
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0354356/


Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:23 pm
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Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
Just saw it, and I agree with James' rating. It's one of the worst date movies ever (thankfully it wasn't a date movie for me). And I can't understand the initial NC-17 (the idea of it being a ploy to get attention seems reasonable).

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Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:52 pm
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Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
firefly wrote:
Just saw it, and I agree with James' rating. It's one of the worst date movies ever (thankfully it wasn't a date movie for me). And I can't understand the initial NC-17 (the idea of it being a ploy to get attention seems reasonable).


My sentiments to the T. I wrote about it here: viewtopic.php?p=80170#p80170

Someone mentioned that it sounds like 5x2 but this is more subdued. If I had to compare it to anything I'd say that Cassavetes' Faces is the closest relative. But, as for "worst date movie ever"? It's a sad film, yes, but it's hardly joyless. I saw it with my wife and was heartened to see a story that offers unadulterated caution about marital inertia. Good date movie, then.


Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:36 pm
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Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
majoraphasia wrote:
firefly wrote:
Just saw it, and I agree with James' rating. It's one of the worst date movies ever (thankfully it wasn't a date movie for me). And I can't understand the initial NC-17 (the idea of it being a ploy to get attention seems reasonable).


My sentiments to the T. I wrote about it here: viewtopic.php?p=80170#p80170

Someone mentioned that it sounds like 5x2 but this is more subdued. If I had to compare it to anything I'd say that Cassavetes' Faces is the closest relative. But, as for "worst date movie ever"? It's a sad film, yes, but it's hardly joyless. I saw it with my wife and was heartened to see a story that offers unadulterated caution about marital inertia. Good date movie, then.

Maybe 'good married movie.' But when you're dating you (well, at least I) want some sort of optimism--not necessarily escapism. I think that Annie Hall is a great date movie, despite the lack of a happy ending. Honestly I thought this movie was essentially of a hopeless story
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Thanks in large part to the Gosling character, who may be a lovable loser but is still a loser who I would place the lion's share of blame on. Not that he's a bad guy--he does try, but he's still a loser.


I thought of Revolution Road, but Faces is a better comparison. Revolution Road went for suburban disenfranchisement but had a broader cultural criticism to aim at, which I didn't really buy; this one is more content to tell a smaller-scale story and does it well. And it's not the "Oh woe is me, I want Paris!" whinging, self-entitlement complex of RR, but rather the "This isn't working!" authenticity of a real troubled marriage.

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Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:43 pm
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Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
firefly wrote:
Maybe 'good married movie.' But when you're dating you (well, at least I) want some sort of optimism--not necessarily escapism. I think that Annie Hall is a great date movie, despite the lack of a happy ending. Honestly I thought this movie was essentially of a hopeless story
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Thanks in large part to the Gosling character, who may be a lovable loser but is still a loser who I would place the lion's share of blame on. Not that he's a bad guy--he does try, but he's still a loser.


I thought of Revolution Road, but Faces is a better comparison. Revolution Road went for suburban disenfranchisement but had a broader cultural criticism to aim at, which I didn't really buy; this one is more content to tell a smaller-scale story and does it well. And it's not the "Oh woe is me, I want Paris!" whinging, self-entitlement complex of RR, but rather the "This isn't working!" authenticity of a real troubled marriage.


I agree with you and with your spoiler-tagged portion. I'll also say that I've no firm definition of "date movie". And now for more spoiler tags.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Gosling's Dean is a loser, I suppose, but he's got something that I find awkwardly charming: a naive wish for things to be as they were. Naturally it topples over into the realm of "pathetic" but, in the probable NC-17 scene in The Future Room, he's driven by an odd, kinda sweet kinda violent, hope.

That said, the brunt of the failure does appear to be due to his inertia. And the vacancy in Cindy's eyes and expression during the "Present Time" scenes are something that I always nervously watch for in my wife. One can feel lucky, one can be lucky, and the movie reminded me that I need to understand enough never to ask "What can I do to be a better husband?"


Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:54 pm
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Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
majoraphasia wrote:
firefly wrote:
Maybe 'good married movie.' But when you're dating you (well, at least I) want some sort of optimism--not necessarily escapism. I think that Annie Hall is a great date movie, despite the lack of a happy ending. Honestly I thought this movie was essentially of a hopeless story
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Thanks in large part to the Gosling character, who may be a lovable loser but is still a loser who I would place the lion's share of blame on. Not that he's a bad guy--he does try, but he's still a loser.


I thought of Revolution Road, but Faces is a better comparison. Revolution Road went for suburban disenfranchisement but had a broader cultural criticism to aim at, which I didn't really buy; this one is more content to tell a smaller-scale story and does it well. And it's not the "Oh woe is me, I want Paris!" whinging, self-entitlement complex of RR, but rather the "This isn't working!" authenticity of a real troubled marriage.


I agree with you and with your spoiler-tagged portion. I'll also say that I've no firm definition of "date movie". And now for more spoiler tags.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Gosling's Dean is a loser, I suppose, but he's got something that I find awkwardly charming: a naive wish for things to be as they were. Naturally it topples over into the realm of "pathetic" but, in the probable NC-17 scene in The Future Room, he's driven by an odd, kinda sweet kinda violent, hope.

That said, the brunt of the failure does appear to be due to his inertia. And the vacancy in Cindy's eyes and expression during the "Present Time" scenes are something that I always nervously watch for in my wife. One can feel lucky, one can be lucky, and the movie reminded me that I need to understand enough never to ask "What can I do to be a better husband?"


[Reveal] Spoiler:
She has a telling quote very early in the movie, when he has the kid eating the cereal off the table (wtf)--something to the point of not wanting to have to raise two kids. That's basically what he was--a big kid, naive, reckless, immature, unfocused, unprepared. He's still one step up from the sadistic wrestler but it doesn't take too long to realize that an intelligent and driven woman like Williams' character could never be happy with a charming but aimless and immature goofball.

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Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:12 am
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Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
firefly wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
She has a telling quote very early in the movie, when he has the kid eating the cereal off the table (wtf)--something to the point of not wanting to have to raise two kids. That's basically what he was--a big kid, naive, reckless, immature, unfocused, unprepared. He's still one step up from the sadistic wrestler but it doesn't take too long to realize that an intelligent and driven woman like Williams' character could never be happy with a charming but aimless and immature goofball.


Exactly. She "traded up" in the parlance of some demographic somewhere. Since we're not really spoiling much of anything... eh, screw it, I'll keep up the boxes. So to speak.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Cindy worries that Dean starts up his drinking at 8am. He, in tragicomic defense, claims he has the "luxury to start drinking at 8am". But the movie isn't about his spiral down into alcohol or dramatically-mineable infidelities. They got married for two different reasons but it's not necessarily Dean that stalls Cindy -- she could have gone on to medical school, she could have gone through with the abortion... she's got her own kind of inertia. Dean isn't a prize but Cindy wasn't forced into becoming a doormat.


These are the things that make the film so very good. How often do we get a rich character drama like this? There are a handful of great movies about marriage (Scenes From a Marriage is the best) but there have been, what? maybe 2? in the last decade.


Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:38 am
Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
What is the other from the last decade in your opinion, Major?


Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:57 am
Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
I just mingled with the sophisticated film goers of Scottsdale. It was a hoot. The theater even played classical music before the previews. Felt as if I was part of high society. Onto the film...

Really liked it. Depressing as hell but well acted and edited. The song Gosling sings is actually very catchy. Given the history and bias of the MPAA I'm not shocked at all this was slapped with an NC-17 at first. I doubt it was a publicity stunt. Remember to these folks it's more about how it happens than the fact that it happens.


Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:40 pm
Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
JJoshay wrote:
What is the other from the last decade in your opinion, Major?


Lost in Translation was the other title I was thinking of. Others may not be coming to mind or may not, in fact, exist.


Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:59 pm
Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
MPAA tried to rate this NC17

Harvey got them to move it to an R

In England they gave it a 15

Go figure!

Now check out this video blog from the UK

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/markkermode/ ... tings.html

Very interesting perspective - particularly the last 90 seconds
Rob


Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:24 pm
Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
Nice back and forth between firefly and major. I disagree, somewhat:

[Reveal] Spoiler:
I think to start placing blame for the failed marriage is a disservice to the film. I don't think the movie is really interested in who is at fault, but more about painting a picture of two people who are essentially good people that make mistakes, rush into marriage, and fail at it. It isn't necessarily always someone's fault. Sometimes marriage just doesn't work. That's a difficult thing to convey in film (you almost always have one of the two as the villain) so honestly. Like major said, they got married for two completely different reasons, but those reasons came from a place of kindness. That isn't reason enough to rush into a marriage that's going to fail, but it's understandable given what we know about these characters. Their marriage is one of dependency, not love. Eventually that dependency turned into resentment and anger.

Gosling's Dean may be a loser in the sense of what he's done with his career, but he's a nice guy. He's the kind of guy that will help an unknown, alone old man set up his new room in the retirement home, just because no one else will (a scene that, by the way, had both my girlfriend and I in a puddle of tears). That's the kind of genuine kindness that I love seeing. He has the capability to honestly do something for someone else when there is little-to-no benefit to himself. So sure, he's an aimless guy, but one that's also a good person, father, and husband. He's trying to make his marriage work, Cindy has already checked out. He's the kind of person who is willing to attempt to bear the burden for someone else, even if that attempt ends in failure. He's a guy I want to succeed because he's genuinely good. It's tragic that he ends up the way he ends up.

In a movie so invested in real emotion and its motivations, the best thing it does is contrast emotional acts like sex and violence. Those actions taking place in the past are contrasted with them happening in the present. In the context of the story, the motivations behind these actions tell us exactly why these two people fell in love, and exactly why their marriage didn't work. Is gives us honest, legitimate reasons as to why these two so desperately needed each other, and how that need ended up dooming them.


The movie is so affecting because it's so honest and real. That's a damn near impossible thing to do. The writing and the performances mesh together to create something depressingly wonderful. 2010's best film.


Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:31 pm
Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
PeachyPete wrote:
Nice back and forth between firefly and major. I disagree, somewhat:

[Reveal] Spoiler:
I think to start placing blame for the failed marriage is a disservice to the film. I don't think the movie is really interested in who is at fault, but more about painting a picture of two people who are essentially good people that make mistakes, rush into marriage, and fail at it. It isn't necessarily always someone's fault. Sometimes marriage just doesn't work. That's a difficult thing to convey in film (you almost always have one of the two as the villain) so honestly. Like major said, they got married for two completely different reasons, but those reasons came from a place of kindness. That isn't reason enough to rush into a marriage that's going to fail, but it's understandable given what we know about these characters. Their marriage is one of dependency, not love. Eventually that dependency turned into resentment and anger.




I hate spoiler tags. HATE them. But I agree with Pete and concede that I may have been taking the film for less than what it really was -- this somehow doesn't improve my opinion but, yes, it was one of the best of 2010. I'd change my list but that'd take editing and work and I'm feeling mighty lazy. The film could have been some shambles postmortem on a marriage gone south but they went the correct way with the material.

That said, talking about psyche and character defects appears to be an easy route of travel. If only I had a Tiger Mother to sing a resounding Battle Hymn to me. Alas, it's too late!


Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:21 pm
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Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
[Reveal] Spoiler:
I agree that he's a good person--the nursing home scene is a great example of his decency and concern for others. To say he's a loser isn't to say he's a bad person, just that he's a loser. I disagree about him being a good father and husband, though--he's an alcoholic who is too immature to be a good father figure--he's just a 'buddy', and one who always reeks of alcohol. That's cute when the kid is 6 but what about when she's 15? And he refuses to strive for a better job, doing more menial (and lower paying) work and letting his wife do the heavy-lifting in terms of professional earnings. He's completely closed to the notion that he should actually try to do something with his life other than spending his days drinking, clowning around with his daughter, and doing menial work.

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Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:24 pm
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Post Re: BLUE VALENTINE
firefly wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
I agree that he's a good person--the nursing home scene is a great example of his decency and concern for others.


Right. I forgot to address that when I replied to Pete. And, since it isn't a damned spoiler, the nice thing about that scene is that he does it with absolutely no guided vision from the future inhabitant. Even better: the man doesn't even react to the Random Act of Kindness. And Dean doesn't appear disappointed... he offers his hand. Lovely.

But, since we're down to the bone, why not play the Jerk Card and attribute this RAoK to Dean's inability to actually read people? I don't believe it does anything but cast the character in a positive light but, since personality characteristics are already a-bleedin' on the table, why not see this is a function of Dean's misperceptions about what people actually find valuable?

I don't believe in that second paragraph but I felt like typing and, as always, you can't un-read it.


Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:36 pm
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