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Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with 
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Post Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
A large reason why I have followed Reelviews so closely for so many years is that James tastes and opinions seem to align reasonably closely with my own - and that's great. But every once in a while, there's one that you are at odds with in terms of praise. You rank high, James ranks low or vice versa. I thought it would make an interesting topic. Two spring to mind for me:

Heat: I think it would be a shoe-in on my Top 10 if not trumped by The Insider.
Grosse Pointe Blank: One of my favourite comedies of all time.

All in good humour... and of course the variation in experiences we each get from a film is what makes it such a fantastic medium.

Seeya,
nuxx.


Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:59 am
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
The Sixth Sense and, apparently, Heat. I also don't like Doubt nearly as much as James does. Disagreements of that caliber are pretty rare, though. Heck, even milder disagreements are fairly uncommon.


Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:08 am
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
there are quite a few disagreements between James and me, but the funny thing is I DO understand while he hates some of these films I like. let me see...

Van Helsing: I know it's ridiculous and preposterous, but I can't help liking it, cheesy special effects and all.
Indiana Jones 4: wasn't AS disappointed by it as James; actually, I saw it three times in theatres and liked it a lot. flawed, yes, but also very fun.
The Fifth Element: not mediocre by any means... one of my favorite childhood movies, and now that I'm older, one of my favorite movies period.
Heat: only seen it once (I should watch it again) and liked it a lot.
Eurotrip: makes me and my friends laugh like maniacs every time we see it. James hated it...

I'm sure there are a few more, I'll post them when I remember them...


Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:40 am
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
James and I rarely agree on comedies, which I don't sweat too much. Comedy above all other genres is the most subjective. I love the brilliant back-and-forth dialog the Flying Circus brought us, and guys like David Cross put me in stitches, but I'll still roll around laughing at a well placed fart joke. I think the hardest I've ever laughed in a theater was listening to Fat Bastard describe the smell of his shit in Austin Powers 3. The movie was bad on the whole, but that scene always makes me crack up.

Stuff like Grandma's Boy and Freddy Got Fingered I enjoy as well, because you can tell the people who made them put their hearts into it. The plots might be horrible or just non-existant, and half the jokes might fail, but I'll go along with it because they're being sincere. And yes, as bizzare as Freddy Got Fingered is, that's just Tom being Tom. They gave him the go-ahead for a movie, and he intentionally bombed. Maybe it's an Ottawa thing, I love watching Norm Macdonald being an absolute train-wreck on purpose.

Shit like Epic Movie, Sandler-starring movies(Zohan), and Norbit make me sick. Those guys are cashing pay checks, and it shows. When a movie was clearly made to generate a profit, I'm not interested.


Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:26 pm
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
Two movies come to mind, Stepbrother's and GlenGarry GlenRoss.

Walking in to Stepbrother's I knew there wasn't going to be much of a plot, that basically it would be a competition for who could be more ridiculous. I laughed my ass off. I'm not surprised that James didn't care for it, but I think it deserved more than a half a star.

GlenGarry GlenRoss I just didn't get the first time I watched it. I didn't understand what James found so excellent about it. Then a couple months later I gave it another chance. And I totally loved it. Understanding the story better the second time around gave me chance to appreciate the character depth that the movie goes into.


Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:26 pm
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
The Village - horrible in most regards, and no way deserving a recommendation.

Lady in the Water - This is one I almost liked but I understand why people hated it cause it was really very stupid.

The Happening - I liked the first half of the movie, then it started to suck out of control but I still don't think it deserved one-star.


Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:52 pm
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
Mulholland Drive. James gave it two stars. It's number 5 on my list of favorite movies
Rent. Also two stars. Number 17 on my list of favorite movies
The Lost World: Jurassic Park. Three stars. The worst movie I've ever seen

I'm sure there are more. Just can't think of them right now.


Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:46 pm
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
'Fargo' and 'Se7en' - two fantastic (the former nearly perfect) films which James gave unenthusiastic three-star ratings to.


I usually agree with him on particulars, but occasionally we drift on his 3 1/2 star ratings... Miss Pettigrew? Really?


Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:58 pm
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
Can I offer a different perspective?

I actually don't want to agree with James all the time and don't read ReelViews because our tastes are particularly similar. I read it because I respect his position on movies and find his arguments interesting. I want a film critic who introduces me to new ideas, new movies and fresh perspective on what i have seen or may be about to see.

Maybe a better example is Mick leSalle our local critic on the Chronicle here in the Bay Area. I disagree with much of his thinking on movies. However, he has immense knowledge and his arguments are always interesting.

Even Roger Ebert himself. He has become too generous of late with his stars and tends to look for the good in everything (his illness may be at the center of this). However, his writing is simply the best of everyone. he often sees things that nobody else catches.

The best for me though, is Mark Kermode in the UK on the BBC.

I just cannot replicate James' love of Benjamin Button and I see less in Doubt than he does. However, the cool thing is that with all the critics i have mentioend i am always intrigued and fascinated by their stance even if I don't agree.

I hate lazy / sloppy writing from a critic who has clearly read Rotten Tomatoes and seeks to either thoughtlessly pander to convention. The best example I can give at the moment is Mark kermode's ceaseless promotion of the virtues of High School Musical 3. He openly says that he went to the screening with zero enthusiasm and suddenly found himself enjoying a film immensely that most critics were trashing. He took the time to ask himself why.

So bring on the disagreements and james - do me a favor and move Button to 2.5 stars where it belongs - just kidding

Actually I'd love to hear from James if upon reflection he has thought about rerating a film, or maybe he secretly has while we've all been asleep!

Rob


Last edited by Robert Holloway on Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:08 pm
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
James does have a couple ReelThoughts about him rethinking his ratings and what movies he did rerate. I don't know when he posted them but I do know that they exist.


Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:14 pm
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
Very rarely do I actually "utterly" disagree with James, although there are a few notable times when some of my favorite films of all time receive 3-star reviews -- namely Fargo and Junebug.

Regardless, as others have said, I don't read James because I always agree with him, but because like all truly great reviewers, he makes his position and his reasons for it clear, and he can be trusted to come into each film ready to like it. As far as star ratings go, I don't think anyone currently writing is more reliable than James, since Ebert's star system has been wildly skewed recenetly (even though his actual writing remains solid).


Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:04 pm
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
Gladiator: James really liked it. I did not. You wanna see a better movie than Gladiator, watch The Lion King.

That is the only one I can remember off the top of my head. I do disagree with Benjamin Button though. Please... deserves 2.5 stars. And a name change to Forrest Gump Redux.


Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:29 pm
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
Joseph wrote:
Gladiator: James really liked it. I did not. You wanna see a better movie than Gladiator, watch The Lion King.

That is the only one I can remember off the top of my head. I do disagree with Benjamin Button though. Please... deserves 2.5 stars. And a name change to Forrest Gump Redux.


Someone on another forum called it "Forrest Chump" - made me smile
Rob


Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:34 pm
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
Robert Holloway wrote:
Joseph wrote:
Gladiator: James really liked it. I did not. You wanna see a better movie than Gladiator, watch The Lion King.

That is the only one I can remember off the top of my head. I do disagree with Benjamin Button though. Please... deserves 2.5 stars. And a name change to Forrest Gump Redux.


Someone on another forum called it "Forrest Chump" - made me smile
Rob

I've also heard Jungle Chump. :lol:


Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:40 pm
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
A few ones off the top of my head -

-Children of Men - Got 3 stars, but I think it's one of the best movies of the 2000s
-Fargo - 3 Stars, I'd give it at least 3 1/2.
-Ed Wood - Got an unfavorable review, I'm a big fan of it.


Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:39 pm
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
Ickibod wrote:
A few ones off the top of my head -

-Children of Men - Got 3 stars, but I think it's one of the best movies of the 2000s
-Fargo - 3 Stars, I'd give it at least 3 1/2.
-Ed Wood - Got an unfavorable review, I'm a big fan of it.


Hi Ickibod

I have a friend who I argue with about films all the time.
After years of beating each other up we agreed that we would never argue if our difference was half a star.
3 vs 3.5 stars is a hard one to call "utter disagreement" :-)

Rob


Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:50 pm
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
The Machinist - James gave it 3 stars, I would've given it 3.5

What's Eating Gilbert Grape - James did not like DiCaprio's performance at all, gave the film 2.5 stars. I really liked this movie (although I first saw the film when I was 12 or 13... I rewatched it approximately 8 years ago.)

Lilya-4-ever - James gave it 4 stars. I would've given it a 3. The film was overly bleak and depressing. It was tooooooo depressing that I developed a numb reaction and failed to connect with the character emotionally. I simply stopped caring about the main character.


Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:23 pm
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
Disagreeing with James is a rare occurrence, but there have been three prominent occasions, two of which have already been mentioned.

Fargo- three is an understatement. This is my second-favorite Coen brothers movie after "Big Lebowski". Yes, I know he gave Lebowski three stars as well, but that I could understand, since comedy is very subjective.
Benjamin Button- No. I love Fincher to death, but I couldn't believe he sold himself out for "Forrest Gump II: Gump Harder" (that's my favorite so far). There's a popular clip floating around showing how shamelessly Eric Roth reused elements from his previous award-winning screenplay. As an aspiring screenwriter myself, I can get that sometimes writers reuse themes and ideas, but the parallels are absolutely ridiculous here. That's not my only criticism, there's also agonizing lulls in pace, a rushed ending and an over-reliance on special effects, as well as the shoehorned aspect of Hurricane Katrina, which was hopelessly tacky and unnecessary. Though I will agree with James that the vignette about the car accident is quite well-done, and might be the flower growing out of the pot of dirt that is Benjamin Button. (if anyone watches the "Colbert Report", their writers seem to agree)
Lilo and Stitch- as an animation fan, it saddened me to see this film get a woefully misunderstood review. (which reads more like a two star review than 2.5) Okay, even I will admit it's not a Disney classic, but it deserves a bit more than it got. The style is indeed made to be that way, as Chris Sanders brought his own look to the film. The backgrounds are watercolored like old Disney films such as Dumbo, which explains their odd and often static appearance. I quite enjoyed the quirkiness and found it a sweet little addition to the Disney canon, so I was dismayed when my favorite critic tore it to shreds. Which was not an oddity, as the film did seem to polarize critics.

There's another one, another animated feature that raised an eyebrow, but didn't destroy me. I found it curious that when in 2007, every critic was praising the hell out of the excellent Ratatouille, James simply gave it three stars and called it "good family entertainment". I was almost certain he'd give it the usual Pixar 3.5 stars, but he didn't seem as enthusiastic. Of course, he made up for it by putting WALL-E as #4 on his top ten last year. :D

EDIT: Ooh, Joseph, good call with Gladiator. I can't believe I didn't realize that by now, but man, I don't see the big deal with that one. It was, well, okay. At least.


Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:26 am
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
Ryan wrote:
Disagreeing with James is a rare occurrence, but there have been three prominent occasions, two of which have already been mentioned.

Fargo- three is an understatement. This is my second-favorite Coen brothers movie after "Big Lebowski". Yes, I know he gave Lebowski three stars as well, but that I could understand, since comedy is very subjective.
Benjamin Button- No. I love Fincher to death, but I couldn't believe he sold himself out for "Forrest Gump II: Gump Harder" (that's my favorite so far). There's a popular clip floating around showing how shamelessly Eric Roth reused elements from his previous award-winning screenplay. As an aspiring screenwriter myself, I can get that sometimes writers reuse themes and ideas, but the parallels are absolutely ridiculous here. That's not my only criticism, there's also agonizing lulls in pace, a rushed ending and an over-reliance on special effects, as well as the shoehorned aspect of Hurricane Katrina, which was hopelessly tacky and unnecessary. Though I will agree with James that the vignette about the car accident is quite well-done, and might be the flower growing out of the pot of dirt that is Benjamin Button. (if anyone watches the "Colbert Report", their writers seem to agree)
Lilo and Stitch- as an animation fan, it saddened me to see this film get a woefully misunderstood review. (which reads more like a two star review than 2.5) Okay, even I will admit it's not a Disney classic, but it deserves a bit more than it got. The style is indeed made to be that way, as Chris Sanders brought his own look to the film. The backgrounds are watercolored like old Disney films such as Dumbo, which explains their odd and often static appearance. I quite enjoyed the quirkiness and found it a sweet little addition to the Disney canon, so I was dismayed when my favorite critic tore it to shreds. Which was not an oddity, as the film did seem to polarize critics.

There's another one, another animated feature that raised an eyebrow, but didn't destroy me. I found it curious that when in 2007, every critic was praising the hell out of the excellent Ratatouille, James simply gave it three stars and called it "good family entertainment". I was almost certain he'd give it the usual Pixar 3.5 stars, but he didn't seem as enthusiastic. Of course, he made up for it by putting WALL-E as #4 on his top ten last year. :D

EDIT: Ooh, Joseph, good call with Gladiator. I can't believe I didn't realize that by now, but man, I don't see the big deal with that one. It was, well, okay. At least.


Hi Ryan

I DVR Colbert and his boss Mr. Stewart every day. The apprentice is becoming the master though :-)

I am biased on Pixar as my offices were located right opposite their main entrance in Emeryville CA for 3 years and I became friends with them. Their preview theater is out of this world!

I am an animation fan and they are the state of the art at the moment. Both the rat and the trash compactor were 4* movies for me.

I intend to start an anti Button thread very soon as I 100% agree with you. I even watched it twice because after a first viewing I thought I had to be wrong and missing something. My girlfriend was desperate to see it and disliked it as well. I have read Ebert who disliked it, my local critics disliked it and yet it gets nominated for an Oscar. But Rotten tomatoes has it at 70% or something like that.

Lilo and Stitch - hmmm. I think you may be alone on that one :-)

Rob


Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:28 am
Post Re: Those Reelviews you respectfully, yet utterly, disagree with
I'm with you on Lilo and Stitch Ryan, I liked that movie


Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:15 am
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