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I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But... 
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Post I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Is anyone as bitterly disappointed as I am in the lack of significant trades over the past few days? It seems as though even those most likely trade decisions were hopped over by the league's inability to do business with itself. Vince Carter, universally expected to swtich teams, is still a New Jersey Net, and Amare Stoudemire, a good runner-up in that department, is still a Phoenix Sun. The result is closer to being an article about the the practice of apathy in a social enviroment.


On a brighter note, I do like what Orlando did by picking up Alston. He gives them a much better chance of competing down the stretch than does Anthony Johnson. It was the most significant deal of the day - is this not depressing?


Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:18 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Yeah, I was hoping for some big ones at the deadline.
I'm a Cavs fan and my roommate is a Blazers fan, and it looks like we got shut out.

I think the Cavs are still sitting pretty if everyone gets healthy though.


Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:36 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
I wasn't too surprised at the lack of deals today. I didn't think Carter, Stoudemire, or even Shaq was going to move. The Suns and the Nets are still close to a playoff spot to be trading key players. It`s too bad the Chandler deal didn`t go through, I would have liked to see him playing with Durant.

If you want lots of trade action, March 4th is the day. Of course, there are probably fewer hockey fans then there are basketball fans.


Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:11 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Well, for a lot of the trades contracts of certain players were more important than the actual quality of the players involved (note Raef LafRentz being discussed in trades), so the Nets may suffer for keeping Vinsanity's monster contract. To be fair, the Suns and Nets are really not ready, from my perspective, to make a late push in the playoffs even if they get there, so I don't know if it was worth losing all of that money for the Free Agency boon next season. Still, it was nice to see the Suns play with fire the past two games sans Terry Porter - as far as it being a sign of things to come, well, I can't be too sure. It is certainly intriguing.


By the way, who buys Orlando being an elite again with Alston starting PG? I mean, he's no Nelson, but he will certainly be able to help them progress in a forward direction until Jameer gets back.


Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:16 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
I'm a Pistons fan, so this season has pretty difficult. I recognize the long term implications of the Iverson trade, but I absolutely hate the on-court results. All the criticisms levied against him throughout his career (crappy defender, inefficient chucker, needs the ball a lot and a certain brand of player around him to be effect) are 100% true. The fact that the Pistons traded away a player who has none of these faults makes it more painful. I think the Pistons had a decent chance at competing with Billups and a more judicious use of the young guys, but I also didn't anticipate Curry being such a bad coach.

The hope is that they'll be the big players this summer since they'll be way under the cap. But ugh, it's been painful since the move was essentially giving up on contending.

Luckily I do follow some other teams and players. I've been following Durant since his days in Texas, and it was nice to finally see him be used properly as a SF rather than an SG. He's been phenomenal this season after a slow start, and he's still only 20. Superstardom is certainly in the cards, although to get there he'll probably have to work on his passing abilities before he takes the next step. The team would have had a pretty solid core looking forward if the Chandler trade hadn't been rescinded...

Chris Paul may be my favorite player in the league right now, but it looks like the Hornets won't be making much noise this season.


Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:50 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
All I know is, Houston needs to dump McGrady. Fast. A friend of mine got some really good seats a couple weeks ago and I thought I won the lottery because, McGrady, Ming, and Artest were all playing. That is kinda sad.


Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:57 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
I'm an extremely obsessive Suns fan, and even though I love Amare, I wouldn't have been disappointed if we traded him, but only if we received something of value in return. The best trades for us are the two trades we DIDN'T make. We didn't trade Amare and we didn't trade Shaq. And what do we do? Go out and score 282 points in 2 games. Granted, it's against the horrible Clippers, but not even the elite teams can put 140 points up on two consecutive nights. It just doesn't happen in today's game.

That said, the trades were pretty underwhelming. When the best trade is the Sac/Chicago trade, you know it was a boring deadline.


Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:06 am
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Samurai Thief... do you need a hug?



You just might. Amare Stoudemire is now out for eight weeks with a retina injury. Wow :x


Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:39 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Huge Wizards fan here, so I feel for all the Suns fans out there. Who knows if the old Suns were back, but back-to-back 140 point games is impressive against anyone. I don't think PHX has what it takes to win, even with Amare (who is overrated), but you never know. Maybe Nash had one more run in him, and with Shaq, maybe they pull it off. I definitely don't see that happening now. I don't know if any of you read Bill Simmons on ESPN, but he has an amzing column detailing all the missteps the Suns front office made in going about assembling the team. It's from last season. It's a great read, for those interested. Here's the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080501

And someone give Gilbert some HGH or something to help revive his damn knee.


Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:50 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Evenflow8112 wrote:
Samurai Thief... do you need a hug?



You just might. Amare Stoudemire is now out for eight weeks with a retina injury. Wow :x

I know. Absolutely unbelievable. All I can say is with this luck, I'm extremely glad I am still gainfully employed... :lol:


Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:23 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
James Berardinelli is a better defender than Amare Stoudemire.

The dude doesn't even pretend anymore. It was clear two years ago that he was never going to be great on defense, but he's only gotten worse. I love his potential, he's as athletic as anybody and deadly with the jumpshot, but he's become a liability on one end. Drives me nuts.

Goubot wrote:
I'm a Pistons fan, so this season has pretty difficult. I recognize the long term implications of the Iverson trade, but I absolutely hate the on-court results. All the criticisms levied against him throughout his career (crappy defender, inefficient chucker, needs the ball a lot and a certain brand of player around him to be effect) are 100% true. The fact that the Pistons traded away a player who has none of these faults makes it more painful. I think the Pistons had a decent chance at competing with Billups and a more judicious use of the young guys, but I also didn't anticipate Curry being such a bad coach.


I do think Curry is the larger problem. And I think you're drinking the Kool-aid a bit with Billups. He's a moderately better defender, but Iverson actually has higher career numbers in FG%, Assists, and Rebounds, and steals, while obviously scoring a lot more points. Billups has had one great year, a few good ones. Yes, Iverson needs a certain type of player around him -- EXACTLY like Billups does. Billups has never proven he can get it done without two or three all-star caliber players around him. I understand if people like Billups's style a little better, but there just aren't stats that make a reasonable case that he's clearly the better player. His "clutchness" is also a skewed and misleading stat.

Regardless, while I do think Iverson is easily the better player, the experiment in D-town has been a massive failure to this point. This is not Iverson's fault, though, it's the fault of management. Iverson DOES need the ball in his hands a lot to be effective, Rip Hamilton is a good shooter who can't do much else in an offense not built around him, and 'Sheed has dropped off in every skill area very quickly this year. Yikes.

I still like Boston's title hopes, assuming KG comes back strong after this injury. They need to add someone (Joe Smith?), but the pieces are there.


Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:15 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
At this point, I'm almost through with Iverson. I believe he is now thoroughly overrated (the fact that he made - and started - the All Star game is ludicrous). He has simply dropped off, although, yes, I will agree that the Pistons are a horrendous fit, the truth of the matter is that Billups' Nuggets are a playoff team in the West Conference and Iverson's Pistons would be 10th seeded in that Conference (if you're asking me to respect Eastern playoff seeds, well, good job not watching basketball).


I do think that a move back to Sixers would be a pretty good iea for A.I. - it was obviously his sweet zone for scoring, and they actually have the same record as the Pistons at this point (didn't think I'd say that this early).


P.S. - Amare will be missed, although I think that the Suns would go from bad to worse if Nash lft the team, even in his lesser state this past year, as he simply makes more things possible for a team that has been for his tenure one-dimensional. Don't look past his ability to make something out of nothing. Joe Johnson


Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:51 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
rgill79 wrote:
I wasn't too surprised at the lack of deals today. I didn't think Carter, Stoudemire, or even Shaq was going to move. The Suns and the Nets are still close to a playoff spot to be trading key players. It`s too bad the Chandler deal didn`t go through, I would have liked to see him playing with Durant.

If you want lots of trade action, March 4th is the day. Of course, there are probably fewer hockey fans then there are basketball fans.


Can't wait for March 4th! It's one of my favorite days every year. Hopefully this year I get to see Jay Boumeester in Philly!

As far as the NBA deadline, I was extremely disappointed. I really would've liked to have see Shaq with LeBron, would've been fun to see if Shaq could've won titles with Kobe, D-Wade and Lebron.

Chandler would've been a good fit with the young Thunder. Never really expected Stoudamire to go. Thought the Spurs might've pushed harder for Vince.


Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:11 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Evenflow8112 wrote:
At this point, I'm almost through with Iverson. I believe he is now thoroughly overrated (the fact that he made - and started - the All Star game is ludicrous). He has simply dropped off, although, yes, I will agree that the Pistons are a horrendous fit, the truth of the matter is that Billups' Nuggets are a playoff team in the West Conference and Iverson's Pistons would be 10th seeded in that Conference (if you're asking me to respect Eastern playoff seeds, well, good job not watching basketball).


I don't think Iverson is at all overrated. Who cares about All-Star votes? Ignore that. I don't hear anyone who knows anything overrating him. He's solidly in that 2nd or 3rd tier of guards right now. He can still get to the rim, and his jumper, while never great, is not any worse than it's always been. He's clearly struggling with playing his game and trying to be liked in Detroit. Rip Hamilton is a very good shooter but can't create for himself off the dribble.

The West is still the better conference, but the gap has closed considerably, and there are more title contenders in the East now in most pundits's estimations. Plus, there are more AWFUL teams in the West than the East right now. Sure, Portland-Houston-Dallas are a little better than Atlanta-Miami-Philly, but all of these teams are afterthoughts once the playoffs hit.

I do think Nash would obviously be a big loss for the Suns at this point, but I also think his game has dropped like crazy -- age finally caught up to him. I never believed he deserved the MVP awards he got, but he was a great player then, and he isn't now.


Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:46 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Billups' main problem on defense was staying in front of quicker guys. He did a pretty admirable job against bigger guards and was a solid defender overall. Iverson gets caught ball watching, gambles for steals (which leave him way out of position and gives his man a clear path to the rim), and this year has had even more trouble staying in front of guys than Billups, which makes no sense because he's quicker.

I don't take much stock in career numbers in comparisons like this. Iverson has had several seasons where he's played 42+ minutes. That's not a knock on him. On the contrary, he's very durable and deserves credit for it, but making those comparisons with a guy who plays 10 fewer minutes per game will always be rather skewed (not to mention that Detroit played at a turtle-like pace with Brown and Saunders). The areas where Iverson has a clear edge are pure volume scoring and steals. In terms of overall shot efficiency (they have similar FG%, Billups takes and makes a lot more 3s and is near automatic from the line) and passing ability (Billups has fewer turnovers and has generated similar assist numbers in slow offenses), Billups has the edge.

I disagree with him needing a certain type of player. He's transferred relatively seemlessly to Denver, a high paced outfit, and has developed a pretty impressive rapport with Nene, who leads the league in field goal percentage. He is far from perfect, and blame goes directly to him for some of the team's early exits. But his style and efficient floor management is more conducive to winning basketball than AI.

Iverson-centric teams have rarely had good offenses, and that hasn't been a coincidence. He creates a lot of low percentage shots, and this year, he hasn't been getting to the rim as much. He can still create open looks for teammates, but frequently makes passes to a player's feet so that he has to recover a bit before taking the shot. This style of play also yields little ball movement, and Detroit's players are good enough offensively to the point where it's just a waste to utilize them as catch and shoot guys (which they don't excel at anyhow).

Again, Curry is a huge factor. His three guard lineup was idiocy, and his rotations haven't put anyone in a position to succeed. Iverson himself is not completely to blame, but he certainly deserves some. I don't even hate the guy, but he's coasted by on reputation and gaudy scoring numbers for too long.

So speaking of idiot former Piston assistant coaches, aren't the Suns fans here glad that Terry Porter is gone? That's three games of 140 points or more, albeit against weaker teams.


Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:30 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Goubot wrote:

So speaking of idiot former Piston assistant coaches, aren't the Suns fans here glad that Terry Porter is gone? That's three games of 140 points or more, albeit against weaker teams.


Abso-freaking-lutely. You have NO idea how happy I am that he's gone. As much as people hate on the Suns, they'd be singing a different tune if we had Gentry (or even D'Antoni) throughout the entire season.


Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:31 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Goubot wrote:
The areas where Iverson has a clear edge are pure volume scoring and steals. In terms of overall shot efficiency (they have similar FG%, Billups takes and makes a lot more 3s and is near automatic from the line) and passing ability (Billups has fewer turnovers and has generated similar assist numbers in slow offenses), Billups has the edge.


I agree on passing ability, but how does Billups have the edge on shot effiniency? Iverson shoots a better precentage and scores 12 more points a game for his career. Their style is different, obviously, and they've played in different offenses, but that works both ways: for example, Billups has never had to deal with the double-teams that Iverson does.

In terms of NBA history, I think Iverson clearly has the edge. The guy is under six feet (I know he's listed at six, but I've stood next to him and he's no more than 5'11") and has been ridiculously durable. For three seasons he was the best scorer in the game by far. Getting the Sixers to the Finals remains the most impressive one-man team performance in NBA history. Yeah, he's fallen off a bit. But he's never denied that and much as his fans do, he's never had a skewed view of his abilities. I think if they added 25 players to the 50 greatest list, he makes it easily.


Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:18 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Shade wrote:
Goubot wrote:
The areas where Iverson has a clear edge are pure volume scoring and steals. In terms of overall shot efficiency (they have similar FG%, Billups takes and makes a lot more 3s and is near automatic from the line) and passing ability (Billups has fewer turnovers and has generated similar assist numbers in slow offenses), Billups has the edge.


I agree on passing ability, but how does Billups have the edge on shot effiniency? Iverson shoots a better precentage and scores 12 more points a game for his career. Their style is different, obviously, and they've played in different offenses, but that works both ways: for example, Billups has never had to deal with the double-teams that Iverson does.

In terms of NBA history, I think Iverson clearly has the edge. The guy is under six feet (I know he's listed at six, but I've stood next to him and he's no more than 5'11") and has been ridiculously durable. For three seasons he was the best scorer in the game by far. Getting the Sixers to the Finals remains the most impressive one-man team performance in NBA history. Yeah, he's fallen off a bit. But he's never denied that and much as his fans do, he's never had a skewed view of his abilities. I think if they added 25 players to the 50 greatest list, he makes it easily.


Not sure where I stand on this debate, but I look at how many points a guy is responsible for, so it doesn't only include his ppg, which Iverson clearly excels at. But Chauncey definitely is a far superior floor general, and whether you believe in the "making players better" mantra, Billups holds an advantage in that respect. If you need a scorer who can get you points fast and efficiently, then AI is your guy. If you have an unorganized team that needs some stability, then you gotta go with Billups.


Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:11 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
This is all pretty moot, however, because of Chris Paul, who is better than both of these guys. If he and Kevin Durant were on the same team, we're talking a guaranteed 140-per game total and a 60+ win season. Doesn't matter what team. Hell, even add some Carlos Boozer into the equation (when he's not dying on the court). Seriously, how fun would that be to watch?


Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:30 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Evenflow8112 wrote:
This is all pretty moot, however, because of Chris Paul, who is better than both of these guys. If he and Kevin Durant were on the same team, we're talking a guaranteed 140-per game total and a 60+ win season. Doesn't matter what team. Hell, even add some Carlos Boozer into the equation (when he's not dying on the court). Seriously, how fun would that be to watch?


I don't see why it's a moot argument. Sure, Paul is better, but no one was saying otherwise. I could just as easily point out that Kobe and Lebron are better than Paul, so your point is moot.

That said, I don't think that would be the best match-up imagineable. Paul is not a pass-first PG, he is about 50-50. And Durant plays better with the ball in his hand anyway. I think the best matchup for him would be a guy like Boozer, a PG like Rondo and another athletic forward. Not that a Durant-Paul-Boozer team wouldn't work, but I don't think they'd win 60 games. Boozer doesn't run, and his ego would get in the way. 46-52 games, yes, if everything worked.


Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:40 pm
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