Discussion of movies and ReelThoughts topics

It is currently Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:10 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars? 
Author Message
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
Quote:
Who cares what they were talking about?

Well, no wonder our opninions of the movie differ. :P I care quite a lot what people are talking about. I want to know the conflict, what people want, and why they want it.

And really, if you want to create thrilling wonder stories that appeal to children, this:
Quote:
It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire. During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire’s ultimate weapon, the DEATH STAR, an armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet. Pursued by the Empire’s sinister agents, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy….

is infinetely better than this:
Quote:
Turmoil has engulfed the Galactic Republic. The taxation of trade routes to outlaying star systems is in dispute. Hoping to resolve the matter with a blockade of deadly battleships, the greedy Trade Federation has stopped all shipping to the small planet of Naboo. While the congress of the Republic endlessly debates this alarming chain of events, the Supreme Chancellor has secretly dispatched two Jedi Knights, the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy, to settle the conflict.....

The first one has evil empires, princesses and planet destroying weapons. The second has taxes and trade blockades. I don't think I want to know if there's a child out there who finds the latter more captivating.

You can make that sort of political maneuvering interesting, of course, but a pulp serial designed as a vehicle to action scenes and grand sights at the audience is not the sort of story you can do that in. You need a simple goal, like stopping the nazis from finding the ark of the covenant, instead of having the audience wondering exactly why a small planet called Naboo is important in the grand taxation scheme.

I'd agree that the stripped down mythology is the real appeal of Star Wars, but at least the original trilogy made what was happening on screen interesting enough that the audience wasn't dreaming up grand adventures that could take place there while watching the movie.


Fri May 22, 2009 1:26 am
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
Quote:
Well, no wonder our opninions of the movie differ. :P I care quite a lot what people are talking about. I want to know the conflict, what people want, and why they want it.


You can't deny that dialogue, and even story, are secondary to visuals in a Star Wars movie. That's the nature of the beast. I'm just saying that this applies to all six films instead of just the prequels. Like I said, you can compare the taxation dispute in Phantom Menace to the ion cannons in Empire Strikes Back. The Senate looked neat arguing over the trade dispute, and the ion cannons looked pretty cool, cause despite Princess Leia's urgent warning of dire seriousness, all they shot out a blue laser instead of a pink one, and gee whiz, that looked neat.

Quote:
The first one has evil empires, princesses and planet destroying weapons. The second has taxes and trade blockades. I don't think I want to know if there's a child out there who finds the latter more captivating.


They both sound like breathless set-ups to a special effects movie to me. And with all due respect to the children, I don't really care what THEY think, I'm talking about my enjoyment of the movies. I don't even LIKE kids. Lol.

Quote:
You can make that sort of political maneuvering interesting, of course, but a pulp serial designed as a vehicle to action scenes and grand sights at the audience is not the sort of story you can do that in. You need a simple goal, like stopping the nazis from finding the ark of the covenant, instead of having the audience wondering exactly why a small planet called Naboo is important in the grand taxation scheme.


Actually, the point of the Phantom Menace was more or less the same as the original series. It was just, you replace The Empire with The Federation. The point of Naboo wasn't that it was part of any trade dispute; it was that Naboo was being invaded by the Federation, and our brave heroes needed to save the planet. The taxation scheme was more or less a gimmick to show us big shiny robots invading a planet, and eventually a big exciting pod race. And to bring Anakin into the picture (man, I wish they'd portrayed him differently...but whatev).


Fri May 22, 2009 1:45 am
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
Ultimate_Gizzard wrote:
You can't deny that dialogue, and even story, are secondary to visuals in a Star Wars movie. That's the nature of the beast. I'm just saying that this applies to all six films instead of just the prequels. Like I said, you can compare the taxation dispute in Phantom Menace to the ion cannons in Empire Strikes Back. The Senate looked neat arguing over the trade dispute, and the ion cannons looked pretty cool, cause despite Princess Leia's urgent warning of dire seriousness, all they shot out a blue laser instead of a pink one, and gee whiz, that looked neat.


I'm sorry, but you really can't compare the trade dispute to the ion cannons in Empire. The trade dispute is the underlying conflict that casues the plot to happen. The ion cannons are a means to escaping the clutches of the empire. The motivation of the primary antagonists of the movie is a lot more important to have a handle on compared to the mechanics of a cannon that provides covering fire during an escape. (And the last nine words contained all necessary information anyway.)

Quote:
They both sound like breathless set-ups to a special effects movie to me. And with all due respect to the children, I don't really care what THEY think, I'm talking about my enjoyment of the movies. I don't even LIKE kids. Lol.

The former tickles my imagination a lot more at least. Tax is not something I want driving the plot of what's supposed to be a fun pulp sci-fi romp. It suppresses my excitement gland.
Quote:
Actually, the point of the Phantom Menace was more or less the same as the original series. It was just, you replace The Empire with The Federation. The point of Naboo wasn't that it was part of any trade dispute; it was that Naboo was being invaded by the Federation, and our brave heroes needed to save the planet. The taxation scheme was more or less a gimmick to show us big shiny robots invading a planet, and eventually a big exciting pod race. And to bring Anakin into the picture (man, I wish they'd portrayed him differently...but whatev).

Well, this comes down to down if you care about what people are talking about and what the visuals are hanging from. You don't, and that's genuinely good for you, because it means you can enjoy Phantom Menace a lot more than I can.

I want to know why people are doing what they're doing so I can kick back and enjoy the spectacle of them overcoming the obstacles in their way. The motivation for the heroes is more or less sorted: they want to save Naboo. But they're responding to the actions of the villains, and why are they doing what they're doing? Why is Naboo so bloody important? Why can it unseat the current chancellor over his handling of the crisis? Why does the trade federation push for a stand here? Noone can know. And it turns out the whole thing was all a Xanatos gambit by Palpatine? So why did he send his apprentice to fight the Jedi and reveal the presence of the Sith? He'd win whatever the outcome, so it makes no bloody sense. I'm just left annoyed and wanting to pelt Lucas with rotten fruit.


Fri May 22, 2009 3:13 am
Director
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:09 pm
Posts: 1292
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
Ultimate_Gizzard wrote:
You can't deny that dialogue, and even story, are secondary to visuals in a Star Wars movie. That's the nature of the beast. I'm just saying that this applies to all six films instead of just the prequels. Like I said, you can compare the taxation dispute in Phantom Menace to the ion cannons in Empire Strikes Back. The Senate looked neat arguing over the trade dispute, and the ion cannons looked pretty cool, cause despite Princess Leia's urgent warning of dire seriousness, all they shot out a blue laser instead of a pink one, and gee whiz, that looked neat.


Actually I DO think story is the highest priority next to VFX in a Star Wars movie. Lucas tries to tell the story visually as much as possible, but there are always going to be points that have to be explained. Of course, if you watch SW for its dialogue (and acting), I can only assume you also listen to The Beach Boys for their lyrics and buy Maxim for its articles. :P


Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:33 pm
Profile
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
H.I. McDonough wrote:
Of course, if you watch SW for its dialogue (and acting), I can only assume you also listen to The Beach Boys for their lyrics and buy Maxim for its articles. :P


And I can assume you don't listen to The Beach Boys since were decent song writers


Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:38 pm
Director
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:09 pm
Posts: 1292
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
Patrick wrote:
H.I. McDonough wrote:
Of course, if you watch SW for its dialogue (and acting), I can only assume you also listen to The Beach Boys for their lyrics and buy Maxim for its articles. :P


And I can assume you don't listen to The Beach Boys since were decent song writers


Actually, I love The Beach Boys. But let's face it -- Mike Love's often trite stanzas about cars, girls, and surfing aren't really what has sustained their popularity over the years; it's Brian Wilson's tunes and arrangements. Granted, he did bring in legitimate outside lyricists for PET SOUNDS and SMILE, but that's beside the point (and, of course, by then the mainstream had begun to turn its back on them). Just as The Beach Boys were all about the music, Star Wars was/is all about the basic story and state-of-the-art VFX; a rich man's Buck Rogers, in other words. To put greater emphasis on any other aspect would be a case of missing the boat. :|


Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:31 am
Profile
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
"You can type this shit, George, but you sure can't say it" - Harrison Ford


Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:01 am
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forum/DivisionCore.
Translated by Xaphos © 2007, 2008, 2009 phpBB.fr