Discussion of movies and ReelThoughts topics

It is currently Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:27 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars? 
Author Message
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
Ratel wrote:
iamed77 wrote:
James gave all three STAR WARS prequels ratings of 3.5 stars, but the fourth paragraph of this latest ReelThought conveys a less-than-enthusiastic opinion of them. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but has the passage of time tempered his original takes?
I’ve been wondering the same. In think I brought the issue up in an old thread where we discussed where we respectfully but vehemently disagreed with his opinion. James has been dropping hints in his Reelthoughts possibly suggesting that his view of the prequels has changed for a while now. Of course, we both could be reading too much into potentially innocent comments...


I am also perplexed at why JB likes the prequels so much - but then again everyone has that one movie (or in this case movies) that they absolutely adore despite contrary to popular opinion. Besides I've always thought JB's star system is more like his personal recommendation (which is bound to be biased) as opposed to an overall technical grading of the film.


Mon May 18, 2009 8:43 pm
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
I would honestly be very suprised if it did happen. Star Wars is like The Wizard of Oz (itself, ironically, a remake) too much of a sacred cow. It's the kind of film people watch over again and show their kids; I doubt people will have forgotten it enough to demand a remake. I feel there would probably be too much scorn attached to any announced remake. The studios would probably find it much cheaper to keep re-releasing the series in whatever new format (as they have up to this point).

Note: I know Mr. Berardinelli is probably tired of corrections but the Superman film franchise has not been remade, Superman Returns was technically a sequel.


Tue May 19, 2009 12:06 am
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
If they ever remake Star Wars, or make any more Star Wars movies, or any more blasted cartoons, I will hate them forever. Whoever "they" are.

I'm on record of having Batman Begins and The Dark Knight as two of my favorite movies. I could probably put Casino Royale in there with them. I loved Star Trek. And I enjoyed the 1st and 3rd Star Wars prequels (not Episode II...bleh).

But I'm sitting here watching Alfred Hitchcock's "Vertigo," and thinking "Why don't we see movies like this anymore?" Originality is in short supply nowadays.


Tue May 19, 2009 2:00 am
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:55 pm
Posts: 3172
Location: Mount Laurel, NJ, USA
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
new_xieland wrote:
I am also perplexed at why JB likes the prequels so much - but then again everyone has that one movie (or in this case movies) that they absolutely adore despite contrary to popular opinion. Besides I've always thought JB's star system is more like his personal recommendation (which is bound to be biased) as opposed to an overall technical grading of the film.


I suppose I should make some kind of statement about how I feel about the prequels "from a distance."

I like them, although I can't claim to be as enthusiastic about them as I was when they first came out. If I re-reviewed them (which I don't plan to do), I might tweak I and II down to *** from their current ***1/2 level.

The problems with the prequels is the lack of overall dramatic tension. You know what's going to happen. That limits enjoyment. Sure, it's nice to see how everything fits together, but I have never liked movies where I know the ending at the beginning, and it's especially frustrating when it takes three movies over six years to get to that point.

How would I rank the SW films? V, IV, III, I, II, VI.

Yes, I think "Jedi" is the worst. It has some of the strongest scenes of any of the films (the Luke/Vader/Emperor stuff is fantastic), but also some of the weakest. And, while Jar Jar is painful, I find him relatively easy to ignore.


Tue May 19, 2009 10:18 am
Profile WWW
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:55 pm
Posts: 3172
Location: Mount Laurel, NJ, USA
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
Fergie260 wrote:
I would honestly be very suprised if it did happen. Star Wars is like The Wizard of Oz (itself, ironically, a remake) too much of a sacred cow. It's the kind of film people watch over again and show their kids; I doubt people will have forgotten it enough to demand a remake. I feel there would probably be too much scorn attached to any announced remake. The studios would probably find it much cheaper to keep re-releasing the series in whatever new format (as they have up to this point).

Note: I know Mr. Berardinelli is probably tired of corrections but the Superman film franchise has not been remade, Superman Returns was technically a sequel.


"The Wizard of Oz" has been remade numerous times. Who can forget "The Wiz"? And, while the recent TV mini-series "Tin Man" wasn't all that great, it at least starred Zooey Deschanel.

As for Superman, presumably you are forgetting the old George Reeves incarnation of the franchise. The '78 film was the "re-boot." As for "Superman Returns," it's part sequel, part re-invention.


Tue May 19, 2009 10:26 am
Profile WWW
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
I have watched the Star Wars saga with my two sons, aged 11 and 9. We watched them in the right order, i.e. from I to VI. I must be perfectly honest: I don't see what all the fuss is about. Horribly written dialogue, the painfully unfunny exchanges between R2D2 and C3PO, stiff acting all around, I mean if you can let Sam Jackson, actor-god of our times, act like this, then you really shouldn't be directing films. And what about that Von Trapp-moment in II? Sheesh...

The kids seemed to love them, however, with Iv and V as favorites. They absolutely hated the Ewoks and Jar Jar, which makes me proud in a way.


Tue May 19, 2009 10:43 am
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
Quote:
James Berardinelli wrote

"The Wizard of Oz" has been remade numerous times. Who can forget "The Wiz"? And, while the recent TV mini-series "Tin Man" wasn't all that great, it at least starred Zooey Deschanel.

As for Superman, presumably you are forgetting the old George Reeves incarnation of the franchise. The '78 film was the "re-boot." As for "Superman Returns," it's part sequel, part re-invention.


First off, thank you for taking the time to reply to my post.

Good point about "The Wiz" and "Tin Man." It did also receive a sequel in "Return to Oz" which was not well received and kept Walter Murch from the director's chair thereafter. The latter two adaptations were much darker. "The Wiz" has probably come the closest to capturing the tone of the 1939 film, with musical numbers and a much more lighthearted tone.

It did not occur to me that you meant television as well when it came to Superman (this goes for "Tin Man" too). Although a two pater in that show started out as "Superman and the Mole-Men" (so IMDB tells me). Kirk Alyn played the part in serials earlier than that even.


Last edited by Fergie260 on Tue May 19, 2009 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue May 19, 2009 1:59 pm
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
Interesting Reelthoughts. Some folks (myself not included) argue that Star Wars is already a remake of The Hidden Fortress.


Tue May 19, 2009 2:00 pm
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
ed_metal_head wrote:
Interesting Reelthoughts. Some folks (myself not included) argue that Star Wars is already a remake of The Hidden Fortress.


I think the film has some elements of "Star Wars." George Lucas himself mentions in the DVD introduction the he based C-3PO and R2-D2 on the two peasants. The film involves the escort of a feisty princess and Toshiro Mifune's general seems like a Han Solo/Obi-Wan Kenobi hybrid.


Tue May 19, 2009 2:05 pm
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
My two oldest daughters (8 and 4) recently watched all six films. We watched IV-VI and then I-III. The younger one loved the ewoks which is to be expected. The oldest thought III was the best one. I noticed the difference between the two sets of films based on the questions they asked during and after the movies. The original movies were good vs evil and it was easy to understand what was going on. The prequels involved trade agreements and politics. This doesn't make one better then the other but I think if they had started by watching Ep I first they wouldn't have made it to III.


Tue May 19, 2009 3:33 pm
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:55 pm
Posts: 3172
Location: Mount Laurel, NJ, USA
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
ed_metal_head wrote:
Interesting Reelthoughts. Some folks (myself not included) argue that Star Wars is already a remake of The Hidden Fortress.


Anyone who makes that argument hasn't seen both movies. Yes - Star Wars borrows some elements from The Hidden Fortress, but the influences are too limited for even the broadest definition of a remake to be employed.


Tue May 19, 2009 4:21 pm
Profile WWW
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
As of this post, today marks the 10th Anniversary of "Star Wars: Episode 1 - The Phantom Menace". So how does the movie hold up for all of you after ten years?

Are Jar Jar and Anakin still annoying to you?

Does the lightsaber battle still entertain and thrill?

Let's get your thoughts on the movie for this anniversary.


Tue May 19, 2009 5:09 pm
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:55 pm
Posts: 3172
Location: Mount Laurel, NJ, USA
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
ck100 wrote:
As of this post, today marks the 10th Anniversary of "Star Wars: Episode 1 - The Phantom Menace". So how does the movie hold up for all of you after ten years?

Are Jar Jar and Anakin still annoying to you?

Does the lightsaber battle still entertain and thrill?

Let's get your thoughts on the movie for this anniversary.


Yes, but let's open a new thread in the "General Movies" category for this...


Tue May 19, 2009 11:15 pm
Profile WWW
Post ?
James Berardinelli wrote:
The problems with the prequels is the lack of overall dramatic tension. You know what's going to happen. That limits enjoyment. Sure, it's nice to see how everything fits together, but I have never liked movies where I know the ending at the beginning, and it's especially frustrating when it takes three movies over six years to get to that point.


This is true though the ride would have been a lot more enjoyable if they actually bothered to craft a half decent story around it and had characters that you actually gave a damn. Star Trek made you fall in love with the same characters all over again. The Prequels strengthened the nostalgia for the past.

The prequels were made in a way akin to a carnival amusement park ride that pleased the 6-12 year olds and disappointed all others. Jar Jar was chucked in there purely because of the merchandise that it'll ship. To me the biggest concern was that they treated the whole thing as a kids movie, explicitly targeting "family movie" goers. By doing so, the prequels had lost all the menace and atmosphere that was oozing from episodes IV, V and VI.

Let's take the simple example of Anakin in Episode 1. Now 9 year old kids aren't that cute; especially when his mother and himself are slaves to some alien overlord on a piece of desert rock. I was hoping to see at least some trauma and abuse that formulated to anger, hate and a eventual lust for power as a result of his childhood experiences. What I got instead was kid that looked like a teddy bear who had a cozy home, a decent job and a loving mother, not to mention his Speed Racer side gig on weekends :roll:

How the hell do you get Vader from that ?!?!


Wed May 20, 2009 2:59 am
Post Re: ?
new_xieland wrote:
This is true though the ride would have been a lot more enjoyable if they actually bothered to craft a half decent story around it and had characters that you actually gave a damn. Star Trek made you fall in love with the same characters all over again. The Prequels strengthened the nostalgia for the past.

The prequels were made in a way akin to a carnival amusement park ride that pleased the 6-12 year olds and disappointed all others. Jar Jar was chucked in there purely because of the merchandise that it'll ship. To me the biggest concern was that they treated the whole thing as a kids movie, explicitly targeting "family movie" goers. By doing so, the prequels had lost all the menace and atmosphere that was oozing from episodes IV, V and VI.

Let's take the simple example of Anakin in Episode 1. Now 9 year old kids aren't that cute; especially when his mother and himself are slaves to some alien overlord on a piece of desert rock. I was hoping to see at least some trauma and abuse that formulated to anger, hate and a eventual lust for power as a result of his childhood experiences. What I got instead was kid that looked like a teddy bear who had a cozy home, a decent job and a loving mother, not to mention his Speed Racer side gig on weekends :roll:

How the hell do you get Vader from that ?!?!

In my opinion you’ve pinpointed the problem exactly. I assume Lucas was daunted by the prospect of having to make Darth Vader seem sympathetic, and he overcompensated by trying to make him cute and kid friendly. But it backfired—and we were left with what you described.

Still, by the third prequel he managed to work out many of the kinks in the franchise. But the first two films were too light hearted to be overcome; and the transition to the darkside was just too abrupt.


Wed May 20, 2009 4:12 am
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
Lucas made a mistake with the prequels, everyone seems to agree. Whether he should have made them ever is a moot point, but my own feelings are no.

Nevertheless, I thought they were decent entertainment, give or take.


Wed May 20, 2009 8:05 am
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
James Berardinelli wrote:
ed_metal_head wrote:
Interesting Reelthoughts. Some folks (myself not included) argue that Star Wars is already a remake of The Hidden Fortress.


Anyone who makes that argument hasn't seen both movies. Yes - Star Wars borrows some elements from The Hidden Fortress, but the influences are too limited for even the broadest definition of a remake to be employed.


Frankly, if Lucas himself didn't point out the similarities I would have never noticed them.

I did, however, notice a few similarities between Dersu Uzula and Yoda. As far as I know Lucas has never acknowledged that influence, but seeing as he was a big Kurosawa fan it makes some sense.


Wed May 20, 2009 12:11 pm
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
Quote:
Lucas made a mistake with the prequels, everyone seems to agree. Whether he should have made them ever is a moot point, but my own feelings are no.

Nevertheless, I thought they were decent entertainment, give or take.


I'm on record for enjoying the prequels, mainly due to the fact that I wasn't caught up in all the hype when they actually came out (except for Episode III: I was a fan by that point). I was a casual Star Wars observer, and rented I a few years after it came out and first caught II on HBO.

My feelings on Episode I are complicated: I love it, but I understand why so many others don't. It's too kid-friendly. Anakin Skywalker's acting was atrocious (at least it's consistent with the next two, in that regard). Jar-Jar is annoying (not as bad as the Ewoks, though). Darth Maul is a wasted villain. There's no real pathos, especially with the young Anakin, as someone mentioned earlier.

And yet despite those complaints, I still love it, because I feel like it perfectly captures the essence of Star Wars. Or at least how I see it. It's essentially a glorified Flash Gordon serial with really neat special effects and a stylized fairy-tale sense of wonder. It reminded me that there was still something cool to discover in this universe.

Episode II is the worst, not because it's bad, but because it's BORING. Despite some good moments, it's more or less a generic sci-fi movie. It just doesn't FEEL like Star Wars...it's like a regular special effects movie that's been hosed down with Star Wars juice.

Episode III doesn't have the same Gee-Whiz Flash Gordon feel of Episode I, but it's my favorite because it recaptured that epic mythological feel of the original series. Anakin's dilemma and fate ultimately did have the feel of some epic Greek tragedy. Plus, Ian McDiarmid was incredible.

And that's how I feel about the prequels.


Wed May 20, 2009 6:03 pm
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
Ultimate_Gizzard wrote:
And yet despite those complaints, I still love it, because I feel like it perfectly captures the essence of Star Wars.

The essence of Star Wars is a dispute about taxes?

If I'd have to rank Star Wars, it'd be Episode V, Episode IV (Knights of the Old Republic I/II) Episode VI, and then the prequels in reverse order of appearance.

Sith is clearly the least bad of the lot, because McDiarmid is pretty ace in it, and something actually *happens*, even if Anakin's transformation utterly fails to convince me. The other two are a checklist of things that need to happen in order for the events of the original movies to take place. It's a bunch of backstory instead of an proper story, and boring as nuts.


Thu May 21, 2009 12:36 pm
Post Re: May 17, 2009: Re-making Star Wars?
Quote:
The essence of Star Wars is a dispute about taxes?


As much as the essence of Star Wars is a lecture from Princess Leia about "arming your ion cannons."

Who cares what they were talking about? The Senate looked neat. Really really neat. It was this gigantic neverending chamber of floating platform thingies where oddball creatures from all over the galaxy hovered around arguing and yelling. It was fun to look at.

This mindset punctuates all 6 movies to me. Like I said earlier, Star Wars to me is essentially a glorified Flash Gordon serial with great special effects and a stylized sense of fairy-tale mythology. I never really looked to any of the films for any deeper sense of meaning (that's what Star Trek is for).


Thu May 21, 2009 6:54 pm
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forum/DivisionCore.
Translated by Xaphos © 2007, 2008, 2009 phpBB.fr