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Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love? 
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
Ken wrote:
Yeah, it's telling that even though we're getting the usual bukkake of expensive superhero actioners, the only summer movie I'm excited for is about teenage cancer patients.


I am cautiously optimistic about it. What makes the book great is the writing. The team behind the film is talented enough, but the story has a high chance of adaptation misstep and turns into something unbearably cloying or saccharine. Fingers crossed for the best.


Regarding Hollywood movies fatigue, I agree with most here too. Still, I feel this year has a pretty good run of blockbuster films so far (give or take a Spider-Man) after 2013's lackluster crop. 2013's wonderful for smaller movies though. I'm also curious if the expensive movies' landscape will change after 2015. That concentrated period of samey-looking big budget movies would surely guarantee some bombs and a few rifts, no?


Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:02 pm
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
peng wrote:
Ken wrote:
Yeah, it's telling that even though we're getting the usual bukkake of expensive superhero actioners, the only summer movie I'm excited for is about teenage cancer patients.


I am cautiously optimistic about it. What makes the book great is the writing. The team behind the film is talented enough, but the story has a high chance of adaptation misstep and turns into something unbearably cloying or saccharine. Fingers crossed for the best.


Regarding Hollywood movies fatigue, I agree with most here too. Still, I feel this year has a pretty good run of blockbuster films so far (give or take a Spider-Man) after 2013's lackluster crop. 2013's wonderful for smaller movies though. I'm also curious if the expensive movies' landscape will change after 2015. That concentrated period of samey-looking big budget movies would surely guarantee some bombs and a few rifts, no?

I wouldn't be too sure about that, most of those films have been hits, sure there's been a few flops, but not all that many major ones, certainly not enough to discourage Hollywood from making more.


Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:29 am
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
The tiresome "Hollywood sucks" line of thinking only works if you're someone who only sees the latest high-profile releases and has no interest in smaller movies or independent films. I can name 10 or more of those smaller movies that I've seen this year, either in theaters (I'm spoiled in that regard living near a major city) or VOD, that are of much higher quality than the majority of those more known releases. VOD has been really good to me that past two years, as I've seen a ton of movies I otherwise would have had to wait a long time for, and the $7-8 price tag is something to be cherished considering I'd normally be paying over $20 for two people to see the same movie in a theater.

There are still quality movies out there ready to be consumed. You just might have to look a little harder. I realize this isn't exactly breaking news on a forum devoted to movies. In the past on the forum, these movies would have either been reviewed by JB (good luck with that now, as we all know) or had a thread started by one of the regular posters as a way to prop up the film. There would have been discussions about these movies, and probably many more, and there isn't now. I don't really see what that has to do with Hollywood churning out sequels and reboots. It's not like that's a new phenomenon.


Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:37 am
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
PeachyPete wrote:
The tiresome "Hollywood sucks" line of thinking only works if you're someone who only sees the latest high-profile releases and has no interest in smaller movies or independent films. I can name 10 or more of those smaller movies that I've seen this year, either in theaters (I'm spoiled in that regard living near a major city) or VOD, that are of much higher quality than the majority of those more known releases. VOD has been really good to me that past two years, as I've seen a ton of movies I otherwise would have had to wait a long time for, and the $7-8 price tag is something to be cherished considering I'd normally be paying over $20 for two people to see the same movie in a theater.

There are still quality movies out there ready to be consumed. You just might have to look a little harder. I realize this isn't exactly breaking news on a forum devoted to movies. In the past on the forum, these movies would have either been reviewed by JB (good luck with that now, as we all know) or had a thread started by one of the regular posters as a way to prop up the film. There would have been discussions about these movies, and probably many more, and there isn't now. I don't really see what that has to do with Hollywood churning out sequels and reboots. It's not like that's a new phenomenon.

You do have some points. One of the problems for me, however, is that those smaller films are a pain in the ass to see. "Under the Skin", for example, did not play in a single theater in my area at all. I basically have to wait for it to hit home video or try the pirating route, which I don't consider an option. This is attributable to Hollywood blockbusters exerting pressure on cinemas to play them over indie films because they will draw more ticket revenue.

I really wish I could share your optimism about films, really. I am far too jaded.

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Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:58 pm
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
"Hollywood" generally refers to the big movies and not the smaller indies, as far as I know. It is a euphemism for corporate cinema.

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Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:53 pm
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
Ken wrote:
"Hollywood" generally refers to the big movies and not the smaller indies, as far as I know. It is a euphemism for corporate cinema.


Rags did mention Hollywood talent working on TV (which last I checked isn't a movie at all), so I assumed everything was fair game.

That said, "Hollywood" refers to movies made by Hollywood studios, regardless of how big they are. "Big" is a relative term. Ride Along, for instance, was a Hollywood film that made a good deal of money, but it's not big in the sense that you're talking. It's not like it's Godzilla or something. It's a small film by Hollywood standards. And no, I'm not saying Ride Along is good (or bad, I didn't see it), just giving an example that illustrates the point. The movie you're most excited for this summer falls into this camp, so I have a hard time believing you're being anything more than unnecessarily semantical here.

If you want to say a lack of good (big, small, both, whatever) Hollywood movies is causing this forum to decline, I'd then ask if the state of Hollywood movies now is all that different from the state of Hollywood movies when the forum was thriving? I don't really see a correlation there, but am open to someone convincing me otherwise.


Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:42 pm
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
I am not taking a position on the subject; just offering my own perspective on what we mean when we complain about "Hollywood".

As for TFIOS, it is financed by studio parent corporations, which does mean it is a "Hollywood" film, but it is not representative of the typical Hollywood film. I don't know that the situation has noticeably deteriorated in the last decade or so, but I think it's fair to say that it's not great.

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Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:27 pm
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
I think blockbusters can be a lot of fun when it gives good action directors an opportunity to show off their panache. Unfortunately, many are made by committee and from directors who have no panache to offer. Not sure still if it's an issue with superheroes specifically, although really I think most superhero concepts are narrow and stifle a director's creativity too much.


Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:19 pm
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
I don't think the concepts themselves are the problem--after all, Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman not only invite, but almost demand different approaches. I think the biggest problem is the current mania for doing all superhero movies in the same style, which really does stifle creativity. It stifles the characters' distinctive traits. It stifles the dynamic differences from movie to movie. Why on Earth is a movie about a billionaire inventor texturally the same as a movie about a Jekyll/Hyde-esque monster, or a move about a patriot who becomes a super-soldier, etc., etc...

EDIT:

Well, I did think that the two Cap movies had their own thing going on for the most part, but as JamesKunz pointed out, the moment the final act mayhem starts revving up, they revert to type.

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Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:38 am
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
Well I do think DC's broader concepts offer directors much greater freedom. The most creative sequence in the new X-Men involves basically a DC character (Flash).


Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:48 am
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
Ragnarok73 wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:

Our relationship on this forum got off to such a wonderful start, didn't it? Good times, good times. As I recall, there was quite an audience for that thread- it's been a long while since I've gotten into any arguments with anyone regarding film. I just can't be arsed to bother as long as there isn't anything that I have an interest in seeing in a movie theater.


That was a funny read, must've missed that thread. I notice RAGNA mentioned you had plotting issues with The Untouchables four years ago, and you recently explained why, which I don't agree with but are interesting. Well I do agree with you, but don't really understand why you're looking at The Untouchables so critically and seriously, given the context of the film.

What are your plotting issues with The Dark Knight James?

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Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:17 pm
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
wisey wrote:
Ragnarok73 wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:

Our relationship on this forum got off to such a wonderful start, didn't it? Good times, good times. As I recall, there was quite an audience for that thread- it's been a long while since I've gotten into any arguments with anyone regarding film. I just can't be arsed to bother as long as there isn't anything that I have an interest in seeing in a movie theater.


That was a funny read, must've missed that thread. I notice RAGNA mentioned you had plotting issues with The Untouchables four years ago, and you recently explained why, which I don't agree with but are interesting. Well I do agree with you, but don't really understand why you're looking at The Untouchables so critically and seriously, given the context of the film.

What are your plotting issues with The Dark Knight James?


The absurd number of plot contrivances that are required for The Joker's inane plan to work (he's such a genius that he knows the glass in the interrogation room will break, a cop will come in, and he'll be able to use the glass to hold the cop hostage? And that's just one of many) and then the equally contrived device (it's like sonar! Except it shows where everyone in Gotham is!) that's required for Batman to catch him.

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Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:53 pm
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
JamesKunz wrote:
The absurd number of plot contrivances that are required for The Joker's inane plan to work (he's such a genius that he knows the glass in the interrogation room will break, a cop will come in, and he'll be able to use the glass to hold the cop hostage? And that's just one of many) and then the equally contrived device (it's like sonar! Except it shows where everyone in Gotham is!) that's required for Batman to catch him.


One of my friends pointed out some of the same issues a few years back. The best response I could give him was, "IT'S THE DARK KNIGHT AND IT'S FUCKING AWESOME! SHUT UP!"

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Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:22 pm
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
Steven wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
The absurd number of plot contrivances that are required for The Joker's inane plan to work (he's such a genius that he knows the glass in the interrogation room will break, a cop will come in, and he'll be able to use the glass to hold the cop hostage? And that's just one of many) and then the equally contrived device (it's like sonar! Except it shows where everyone in Gotham is!) that's required for Batman to catch him.


One of my friends pointed out some of the same issues a few years back. The best response I could give him was, "IT'S THE DARK KNIGHT AND IT'S FUCKING AWESOME! SHUT UP!"

I had the same problems with the film myself, it was just one too many leaps of logic for me to be asked to accept.


Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:25 pm
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
Steven wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
The absurd number of plot contrivances that are required for The Joker's inane plan to work (he's such a genius that he knows the glass in the interrogation room will break, a cop will come in, and he'll be able to use the glass to hold the cop hostage? And that's just one of many) and then the equally contrived device (it's like sonar! Except it shows where everyone in Gotham is!) that's required for Batman to catch him.


One of my friends pointed out some of the same issues a few years back. The best response I could give him was, "IT'S THE DARK KNIGHT AND IT'S FUCKING AWESOME! SHUT UP!"


Hardly. The Dark Knight is only awesome if you want to believe it is irrespective of quality.. Other than Heath Ledger's Joker, the movie doesn't have much going for it and has a whole lot wrong with it.

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Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:36 pm
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
Quote:
The best response I could give him was, "IT'S THE DARK KNIGHT AND IT'S FUCKING AWESOME! SHUT UP!"


Kind of the same response offered by Honest Trailers. Not a sufficient response. I mean anyone has a right to enjoy watching it, and I agree that Joker outshines the rest of the film. But the Twoface plotline isn't believable for me and the Joker is just way overpowered. He's meant to be a regular person, but he's treated like an invincible Superman. He doesn't even bleed when Batman bashes his head into a glass pane. That's just silly. He's given not only Superman's invincibility, but also his omiscience. The Joker has the power, apparently, to appear anywhere, infiltrate anything, plan anything well in advance. And once Harvey Dent becomes Twoface, he acquires the same power.


Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:49 am
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
I agree with James on the plot contrivances. The Joker's 'plan' couldn't work in any Universe. It'd be like sitting there and trying to guess loads of incredibly random events. That fucker should concentrate on playing the lottery. And Harvey Dent isn't much better. OK, he lost his girlfriend. A guy I know lost his Wife last year, I don't see him trying to kill others people's kids as a vague retaliation

Where I disagree with James is Ledger's performance, which I think is overrated in the extreme. For eccentric menace - check Javier Bardem in SKyfall as a far superior turn.

Of Nolan's Batman's films, The Dark Knight is the worst, in my humble one.

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Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:16 am
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
NotHughGrant wrote:
I agree with James on the plot contrivances. The Joker's 'plan' couldn't work in any Universe. It'd be like sitting there and trying to guess loads of incredibly random events. That fucker should concentrate on playing the lottery. And Harvey Dent isn't much better. OK, he lost his girlfriend. A guy I know lost his Wife last year, I don't see him trying to kill others people's kids as a vague retaliation

Where I disagree with James is Ledger's performance, which I think is overrated in the extreme. For eccentric menace - check Javier Bardem in SKyfall as a far superior turn.

Of Nolan's Batman's films, The Dark Knight is the worst, in my humble one.


Or Javier Bardem in No Country for Old Men. But I agree with all that, including the last part.

I also wonder if psycho killer characters getting Oscars for their actors is a little too easy. Joe Pesci, Anthony Hopkins, Javier Bardem, Heath Ledger, Christoph Waltz, nomination for Ralph Fiennes. Can't deny, pathology is a fascinating thing to watch an actor tackle, but after seeing real video interviews of Dahmer, Gacy, etc. it starts to seem a bit silly.

Even so, an actor playing against type to play Joker shouldn't have been news. Ledger was preceded by Luke Skywalker (sort of).


Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:06 am
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
NotHughGrant wrote:
I agree with James on the plot contrivances. The Joker's 'plan' couldn't work in any Universe. It'd be like sitting there and trying to guess loads of incredibly random events. That fucker should concentrate on playing the lottery. And Harvey Dent isn't much better. OK, he lost his girlfriend. A guy I know lost his Wife last year, I don't see him trying to kill others people's kids as a vague retaliation



For real. Not to mention, his logic seems to work like this:

"I am so angry that my girlfriend was killed, that I will...team up with her killer?"

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Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:17 am
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Post Re: Now that the forum is dying... any lasting threads you love?
Better yet -

Quote:
I'm so angry at the guy who killed my girlfriend, I'll team up with him and kill they people who tried to save her. Am I some crackhead lunatic with a fucked morality? No I'm Harvey Dent, crimebusting District Attorney, so naturally when a killer gets away with something, my instincts are to team up with the killer. I don't know why I did this, perhaps because of the piece of crappy homespun philosophy I live by, yeah you know the one "you either die young or live long enough to become the villain". I think it was an Asylum Films rip-off of Logan's Run, or perhaps Battle Royale, I picked up that gem of information. Maybe a Christmas cracker. Maybe HITLER. Who the fuck cares anyway, it sounds good when I say it in posh restaurants, so it must be right, right?? Anyway, what was I saying, oh yeah, District Attorney, let's get to work, Rachel ... oh shit yeah she's dead. That's why I'm all fucked up. Things have changed. Changed so much my piece of philosophy has become real, or self-fulfilling at least. I'm confused. If a tree falls in the woods and no-one hears it, would Rachel be dead now?? No, no must think straight - The Joker, that's right, I love the Joker.

Lights!

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Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:15 am
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