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Kurt Cobain- 20 years 
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
I'm not the biggest Aerosmith fan, but I do enjoy that song, it's better then "Dream On" which has been thoroughly played to death on radio stations.


Mon May 12, 2014 12:05 am
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
I think some clarification is needed. Alt-rock was around much earlier than 1989; a better starting point would be 1981, when R.E.M. formed. This is important, because how else could we classify the Pixies, Butthole Surfers, Husker Du and the Replacements?

I'm inclined to partially agree that pop music wasn't at its peak in the late 1980s. It was blander, but compared to the shit that is n the radio today, a lot of it sounds absolutely vibrant. I actually think Milli Vanilli was ahead of their time. They got dragged through the coals because they didn't sing on their album. Now nobody sings on their albums. So give Milli Vanilli their Grammy back.

And in hindsight, "I Don't Want to Miss a Thing" was the moment when Aerosmith completely, totally jumped the shark.


REM's arrival would be a good starting point. That may have been the moment when New Wave began metamorphosis into alt rock. On the other hand it could be argued that "alternative rock" has always existed in some form since rock and roll began. An argument could be made that the Velvet Underground or Big Star were the first alt rock group before the term ever came into being.

For point of clarification, by alt rock era I meant the era in which grunge and the likes of Jane's Addiction, Faith No More and numerous others moved it to the forefront. That era began around 89 and ended in the late 90s with the teen pop boom. It was an interesting cycle. But it had the unfortunate side effect of reducing the genre to being a fashion to a good portion of the public. This led to horrid watered down knock-offs like Creed and Nickelback,

Today alt rock lives on. Bands like The National could be considered prime examples. Any group really that works outside of the mainstream.

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Mon May 12, 2014 10:43 am
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
Jeff Wilder wrote:

REM's arrival would be a good starting point. That may have been the moment when New Wave began metamorphosis into alt rock. On the other hand it could be argued that "alternative rock" has always existed in some form since rock and roll began. An argument could be made that the Velvet Underground or Big Star were the first alt rock group before the term ever came into being.

For point of clarification, by alt rock era I meant the era in which grunge and the likes of Jane's Addiction, Faith No More and numerous others moved it to the forefront. That era began around 89 and ended in the late 90s with the teen pop boom. It was an interesting cycle. But it had the unfortunate side effect of reducing the genre to being a fashion to a good portion of the public. This led to horrid watered down knock-offs like Creed and Nickelback,

Today alt rock lives on. Bands like The National could be considered prime examples. Any group really that works outside of the mainstream.


I'm pretty much in agreement. Had the term existed, the Velvets would definitely have been considered alt-rock. And yes, butt rock was an unfortunate byproduct of the alt-rock movement. It seems like every band after Stone Temple Pilots had to have a singer that sounded like Scott Weiland - Creed, Puddle of Mudd, Staind, Nickelback, and so on. But STP cut good singles, whereas later butt rock bands did not.

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Mon May 12, 2014 12:11 pm
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
Jeff Wilder wrote:

REM's arrival would be a good starting point. That may have been the moment when New Wave began metamorphosis into alt rock. On the other hand it could be argued that "alternative rock" has always existed in some form since rock and roll began. An argument could be made that the Velvet Underground or Big Star were the first alt rock group before the term ever came into being.

For point of clarification, by alt rock era I meant the era in which grunge and the likes of Jane's Addiction, Faith No More and numerous others moved it to the forefront. That era began around 89 and ended in the late 90s with the teen pop boom. It was an interesting cycle. But it had the unfortunate side effect of reducing the genre to being a fashion to a good portion of the public. This led to horrid watered down knock-offs like Creed and Nickelback,

Today alt rock lives on. Bands like The National could be considered prime examples. Any group really that works outside of the mainstream.


I'm pretty much in agreement. Had the term existed, the Velvets would definitely have been considered alt-rock. And yes, butt rock was an unfortunate byproduct of the alt-rock movement. It seems like every band after Stone Temple Pilots had to have a singer that sounded like Scott Weiland - Creed, Puddle of Mudd, Staind, Nickelback, and so on. But STP cut good singles, whereas later butt rock bands did not.

Personally, I was never a big fan of STP, I find most of their songs little more then forgettable background music(I prefer Weiland's later band Velvet Revolver, shame they split up).

Creed I cannot stand, their lyrics are putrid and their music is bland as can be, but I do quite enjoy Nickelback, Puddle Of Mudd, etc.

Also Nickleback have been around since the mid-90s(their debut album Curb came out in 1996), they just didn't get popular until the early 2000s, so I wouldn't really call them "knock-offs".


Mon May 12, 2014 1:39 pm
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
I like REM. At their worst they suck. But at their best they're really very good indeed.

What strikes me here (and I'm not being jingoistic or flamebaiting) is how shit some American bands are. The UK so kicks your ass musically it's unreal.

Puddle of Mud, Nickelback, even Metallica blow. I like the Chilli Peppers, but they're ancient. Foo Fighters have about 3 good songs in their history. We gave you The Beatles, The Stones, Pink Floyd, Led Zep, The Who, The Kinks, even Queen. You gave us Bon Jovi, Guns and Roses and Aerosmith. REM and Chilli Peppers have been around for 30 years - no competion you see. Your biggest export to here band wise this past decade was The Killers. A completely boring, basically Christian rockband. You lap up Bush (a band 90% of Brits haven't heard of, even though they're British) who are crap, and took Radiohead, who made half a good album 20 years ago

Seriously, I don't get it. You have Bruce Springsteen (who I actually like), he's like our Rod Stewart. But American guitar bands in general .... eeeesh. I feel for you guys. I really do.

I love America, i love American people, culture, movies, food etc. But allowing for degrees and exceptions, your music, your bands, suck

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Last edited by NotHughGrant on Tue May 13, 2014 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue May 13, 2014 3:26 am
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
NotHughGrant wrote:
I like REM. At their worst they suck. But at their best they're really very good indeed.

What strikes me here (and I'm not being jingoistic or flamebaiting) is how shit some American bands are. The UK so kicks your ass musically it's unreal.

Puddle of Mud, Nickelback, even Metallica blow. I like the Chilli Peppers, but they're ancient. Foo Fighters have about 3 good songs in their history. We gave you The Beatles, The Stones, Pink Floyd, Led Zep, The Who, The Kinks, even Queen. You gave us Bon Jovi, Guns and Roses and Aerosmith. REM and Chilli Peppers have been around for 30 years - no competion you see. Your biggest export to here band wise this past decade was The Killers. A completely boring, basically Christian rockband. You lap up Bush who are crap, and took Radiohead, who made half a good album 20 years ago

Seriously, I don't get it. You have Bruce Springsteen (who I actually like), he's like our Rod Stewart. But American guitar bands in general .... eeeesh. I feel for you guys. I really do.

I love America, i love American people, culture, movies, food etc. But allowing for degrees and exceptions, your music, your bands, suck

Metallica blows???? :shock: :o

Blasphemy I say! They are an amazing band.

I feel more for you guys, having unbearable tripe like One Direction(who singlehandedly brought back the boy-band craze), they're a million times worse then any American band I can possibly think of.

We've got amazing guitar bands in general, there's Megadeth, Slayer, Anthrax, Overkill, etc.


I love some UK bands(especially NWOBHM bands like Def Leppard) but I don't think they "kick our ass so much it's unreal".


Tue May 13, 2014 3:54 am
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
Vex, i'm not denying our horrible contribution to chart music like One Direction.

But our bands are great. Yours (with degrees and exceptions) suck. American rock music as a rule is awful.

I love your soul, your motown. But rock, no way

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Tue May 13, 2014 4:04 am
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
Thanks for giving us Coldplay*. They're so fucking good I could just shit all over them because I'm being sarcastic and they're actually horrible.

Really, modern UK rock music is sooo good.

Do you really have to resort to bringing up Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin while decrying the Red Hot Chili Peppers (a band that has only gained in technical facility over the years and is still doing vital work) as too old to count?

I'm trying to think of a UK band besides Muse that's still doing work that's good, vital, and pushing forward from what they've done in the past.

Meanwhile, pull up a seat.

Dream Theater--not just an American progressive rock band, but one that hails from New York, the most American of cities.
Devin Townsend--actually Canadian, but if you're going to blame us for Nickelback, we get to claim Dev.
Umphrey's McGee--not just American, but not too far from my neck of the woods.

Hell, I'm as old and out of touch as anybody, and even I know that American rock music is alive and well, insofar as any rock music is alive and well. Which I'm actually not sure about.


*Also, Coldplay stole the chords and melody in "Viva La Vida" from Joe Satriani, the very American rock guitarist.

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Tue May 13, 2014 5:25 am
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
Then there's these guys. I don't know about the idiot on the far right, but the rest of them seem pretty cool.

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Tue May 13, 2014 5:33 am
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
I like the Chilli Peppers a great deal. But their continued relevence highlights how bad American band music is.

As for Britain. Peaks and troughs. Coldplay are an easy target for anyone. Too easy. Old hat. And whatever their faults, at least their reputation is staked on their music, not their image or attitude.

My point isn't to lambast all American music (I love Motown for instance), just American rock bands. Which are mostly horrible

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Last edited by NotHughGrant on Tue May 13, 2014 5:54 am, edited 2 times in total.



Tue May 13, 2014 5:49 am
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years


Yeah good stuff!!

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Tue May 13, 2014 5:51 am
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
NotHughGrant wrote:

I love America, i love American people, culture, movies, food etc. But allowing for degrees and exceptions, your music, your bands, suck


This is so wrong on so many levels it's unreal. There have been many great American artists, and I'm going to prove it.

The Velvet Underground influenced so many bands it's mind-boggling. They're one of the most important bands ever, regardless of location. James Brown, Parliament-Funkadelic, Otis Redding, Ray Charles, the entire output of Motown - American R&B is second to none.

Alternative and punk, you say? We've got Talking Heads, Blondie, the Ramones, the New York Dolls, Television, Faith No More, R.E.M., Husker Du, the Replacements, Sonic Youth, the Flaming Lips, The Cars, Black Flag, X, the Butthole Surfers, Jane's Addiction, the Chili Peppers. More recently, we have the Strokes, White Stripes and Black Rebel Motorcycle Club.

Guitar-driven rock, you say? We've got Aerosmith, Springsteen, Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers, Pearl Jam, The Grateful Dead, Creedence, Metallica (their early work is among the greatest metal ever recorded), and a few decent hair bands. And this is all without getting into the pioneers like Chuck Berry and Buddy Holly, who defined the style (and who the Beatles and Stones got all their licks from).

Plus, we've got Bob Dylan, who is more than just a rock and roll star, he's a true artist in evey way, and his work will be remembered long after he is gone.

American music has a lot going for it. You just haven't been looking hard enough.

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Tue May 13, 2014 8:41 am
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
I agree, Motown, blues, soul - love all that.

It's just your guitar music that has traditionally blown. Your population is 6 times that of the UK and your bands haven't been half as good

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Tue May 13, 2014 11:42 am
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
NotHughGrant wrote:
It's just your guitar music that has traditionally blown. Your population is 6 times that of the UK and your bands haven't been half as good


The population argument is really flawed, man. It's a question of interest and culture, not numbers. I don't think all the bands Sexy Cocoa mentioned are great, but there are great American straight-up rock bands. I'm not really interested in comparing UK vs US on a scale basis, but to say US rock has traditionally blown is crazy unless you think Hendrix, Springsteen, Petty, Dylan, Jack White etc all blow. We all think of these things differently, but to me the question is: can the best of US bands compare with the best UK bands? The answer to that, to me, is a resounding yes.

And again, the population thing just doesn't work. The US would be a massively successful soccer/football nation if we cared about it, but (sadly) we don't. Just as the UK hasn't produced basketball or American football players. Nothing wrong with that, it's just the way the culture (at least currently)works.


Tue May 13, 2014 12:00 pm
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
I take your point on population. That came to mind just after I posted

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Tue May 13, 2014 1:30 pm
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
NotHughGrant wrote:
Vex, i'm not denying our horrible contribution to chart music like One Direction.

But our bands are great. Yours (with degrees and exceptions) suck. American rock music as a rule is awful.

I love your soul, your motown. But rock, no way

That is complete and utter BS :roll:

American rock music in general is not "awful" at all, as a rule it's mostly pretty damn awesome! :twisted:

Your bands aren't all that great, Coldplay as mentioned are mediocre at best(I am so sick of hearing "Clocks" played to death on radio stations), Nickelback kicks their ass any day.


Tue May 13, 2014 1:47 pm
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
NotHughGrant wrote:
I agree, Motown, blues, soul - love all that.

It's just your guitar music that has traditionally blown. Your population is 6 times that of the UK and your bands haven't been half as good

Dead wrong, they've been way more then half as good, they've been damn awesome, Metallica revolutionized thrash metal the world over, Joe Satriani and Steve Vai are some of the greatest guitarists in existence.


Tue May 13, 2014 1:54 pm
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
Don't worry. As Chemical Edge gets bigger and bigger, those stiff-assed Brits will realize just how much their pitiful contributions to our culture pale in comparison. ¡Viva la Revolución!

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Tue May 13, 2014 3:52 pm
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
Another important point is that British rock would not exist in any form without the contributions of Robert Johnson, Son House, Sonny Boy Williamson, Howlin' Wolf, Muddy Waters, B.B. King, Chuck Berry, Gene Vincent, Eddie Cochran, Bo Diddley, Buddy Holly, Little Richard, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis, Hank Williams, Johnny Cash, Willie Dixon, Johnnie Johnson, and Elvis...all American performers that define their sound. Don't believe me? Call up Paul McCartney or Keith Richards, and they'll say the same thing.

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Tue May 13, 2014 4:48 pm
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Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
No Carl Perkins = no George Harrison. That is a one-to-one certitude.

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Tue May 13, 2014 5:33 pm
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