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Punching above your weight 
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
Hmmmm... would Fernando Meirelles/CITY OF GOD be a good choice here?

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:04 pm
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
The shootout at the end of L.A. Confidential works primarily because it did the important work ahead of time to ensure that most people in the audience would care about the characters and their fate at that point. I don't recall anything special technically about it. It's done well enough, but what's so great about it?

Though admittedly, I would rather have films that go this route rather than ones that feel the need to "up the bar" on the spectacularness of their action set pieces but fill them with plastic CGI thingies and what the hell is character development again?

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:20 pm
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
MGamesCook wrote:
speaking, hundreds and hundreds. The Confidential shootout wouldn't make the top 150. It's Crowe and Pearce crouched in a dark crawl space shot almost entirely in extreme close-ups. Yawn.


Dante Spinotti disagrees:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3BPqucFyEeU/T ... ential.jpg

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:20 pm
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
KWRoss wrote:
Hmmmm... would Fernando Meirelles/CITY OF GOD be a good choice here?


Not for me. I think the Constant Gardener and Blindness are great or nearly great films too.

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:21 pm
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
I actually haven't seen City of God but I thought Blindness and The Constant Gardner fall in the good but not great films. To they are 3 star movies.

As far as Curtis Hanson goes, L.A. Confidential is a masterpiece but I love Wonder Boys nearly as much. They are nearly equally great to me. One of my all time favorites, both of them.


Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:48 pm
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
Stuart Rosenberg. He made a fair amount of television and, after Cool Hand Luke, made stuff that ranges from poor (The Amityville Horror) to pretty good (Voyage of the Damned). Nothing on the level of Cool Hand Luke, at least not in regard to stature.

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Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:46 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
JamesKunz wrote:

Something similar could be said about Alex Proyas and Dark City, or Richard Adams (novelist) and the great Watership Down. Sometimes people have only one story to tell, but that one story is a great one.


Joseph Heller wrote:
When I read something saying I've not done anything as good as 'Catch-22' I'm tempted to reply, 'Who has?'

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Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:53 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
I'd say it for Andrew Niccol. Truman Show is his masterwork, probably because he didn't direct it.


Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:37 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
MGamesCook wrote:
I'd say it for Andrew Niccol. Truman Show is his masterwork, probably because he didn't direct it.


Gattaca and Lord of War are also great.


Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:36 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
ilovemovies wrote:
MGamesCook wrote:
I'd say it for Andrew Niccol. Truman Show is his masterwork, probably because he didn't direct it.


Gattaca and Lord of War are also great.


Yeah Gattaca is nearly as good, and it's hard to take The Truman Show away from Peter Weir.

Mark III wrote:
Stuart Rosenberg. He made a fair amount of television and, after Cool Hand Luke, made stuff that ranges from poor (The Amityville Horror) to pretty good (Voyage of the Damned). Nothing on the level of Cool Hand Luke, at least not in regard to stature.


Indeed. I used Rosenberg as the center for my "cinematic one-hit wonders" thread from a couple years ago.

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Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:27 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
How about Nicholas Meyer? I think he's a savvy craftsman, enough so that I'd consider him underrated as a filmmaker, but the only unmitigated success on his directorial resume is Star Trek: Wrath of Khan. The rest of his stuff (out of what I've seen) tends to be of good quality, but not as consistent. His only other movie that holds together nearly as well is Star Trek: The Voyage Home, which he wrote the majority of but did not direct himself.

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Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:33 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
Ken wrote:
How about Nicholas Meyer? I think he's a savvy craftsman, enough so that I'd consider him underrated as a filmmaker, but the only unmitigated success on his directorial resume is Star Trek: Wrath of Khan. The rest of his stuff (out of what I've seen) tends to be of good quality, but not as consistent. His only other movie that holds together nearly as well is Star Trek: The Voyage Home, which he wrote the majority of but did not direct himself.


He also directed Star Trek VI: The undiscovered country which was not as good as the Wrath of Khan but very close in my view :-)

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Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:57 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
I do like The Undiscovered Country*, but I think it falls apart toward the end, and its cultural and political references get a little too cute for my taste. There was a lot of that stuff in Wrath of Khan, but it was integrated in a more organic way.

-

*Trivia: this was originally supposed to be the title of Wrath of Khan. Meyer was overridden by the studio, so he held onto the title and got to use it later on when he had a little more clout. Unfortunately, it doesn't make as much sense--Star Trek VI is a political thriller, whereas Star Trek II is a swashbuckler preoccupied with aging and death--the "undiscovered country".

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Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:03 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
Ken wrote:
I do like The Undiscovered Country*, but I think it falls apart toward the end, and its cultural and political references get a little too cute for my taste. There was a lot of that stuff in Wrath of Khan, but it was integrated in a more organic way.

-

*Trivia: this was originally supposed to be the title of Wrath of Khan. Meyer was overridden by the studio, so he held onto the title and got to use it later on when he had a little more clout. Unfortunately, it doesn't make as much sense--Star Trek VI is a political thriller, whereas Star Trek II is a swashbuckler preoccupied with aging and death--the "undiscovered country".


But he got the title worked into the script, and in an interesting way. The Chancellor (David Warner!) quotes Hamlet, trying to reappropriate the phrase as a description of the unfamiliar peace about to be brokered between the Empire and the Federation, but of course, it foreshadows his death as well, much in the way it does in Shakespeare. I would agree that Meyer definitely never reached the heights of Wrath of Khan, and works in this context.


Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:00 pm
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
Michael Cimino - The Deer Hunter. How the hell did he make this film? The rest of his filmography almost reads like a not what to do, http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001047/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1 yet he made this masterpiece. Check out the special features if you decide to watch it again. It’s like the whole process to get this through, edited the way he wanted the world to see it, literally did his head in. I know people have problems with the wedding going on too long, from the 22 minute mark to about the 56 from memory, but I’m so he glad he fought to make it the vision he wanted. The character development in each scene of the wedding pays off in the later scenes. Every time I view it, it reminds me of what a four star film is all about.

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Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:22 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
I've only seen it once, but I was a pretty big fan of Year of the Dragon. It is not in the league of Deer Hunter, so I think your choice of Cimino may be the best example yet. Year of the Dragon looks like a thousand other movies now, but was at the leading edge of that style in it's day.


Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:59 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
CasualDad wrote:
I've only seen it once, but I was a pretty big fan of Year of the Dragon. It is not in the league of Deer Hunter, so I think your choice of Cimino may be the best example yet. Year of the Dragon looks like a thousand other movies now, but was at the leading edge of that style in it's day.

I actually prefer Year of the Dragon to Deer Hunter, mainly cause it dosen't have a ridiculously overlong sequence like the wedding scene in the latter. With how unnecessarily long that part was, it's not surprising how long the initial cut of Heaven's Gate was.


Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:38 pm
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
wisey wrote:
Michael Cimino - The Deer Hunter. How the hell did he make this film? The rest of his filmography almost reads like a not what to do, http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001047/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1 yet he made this masterpiece. Check out the special features if you decide to watch it again. It’s like the whole process to get this through, edited the way he wanted the world to see it, literally did his head in. I know people have problems with the wedding going on too long, from the 22 minute mark to about the 56 from memory, but I’m so he glad he fought to make it the vision he wanted. The character development in each scene of the wedding pays off in the later scenes. Every time I view it, it reminds me of what a four star film is all about.


Vexer wrote:
CasualDad wrote:
I've only seen it once, but I was a pretty big fan of Year of the Dragon. It is not in the league of Deer Hunter, so I think your choice of Cimino may be the best example yet. Year of the Dragon looks like a thousand other movies now, but was at the leading edge of that style in it's day.

I actually prefer Year of the Dragon to Deer Hunter, mainly cause it dosen't have a ridiculously overlong sequence like the wedding scene in the latter. With how unnecessarily long that part was, it's not surprising how long the initial cut of Heaven's Gate was.


Thanks so much for your input there Vexer, it was really helpful. If you prefer Year of the Dragon more, I'll reconsider if Cimino was punching above his weight with The Deer Hunter and analyze his filmography more.

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Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:07 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
The Deer Hunter is the only movie of his that I've seen. I think it's a mostly terrific movie but I do think it falls a little shy of greatness mainly because it does take forever to get going.


Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:48 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
If they made The Deer Hunter today it would be a triology.

Fellowship - seting the scene at home

Two Towers - The War

Return - back at home/the aftermath


On another note, good to see this thread still hanging around. I should start threads after sinking a bottle of Port more often

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Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:42 am
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