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Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry) 
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
[quote]Precisely, and that's my point: it's hard, but it can be done. As I said, I believe that a film can't be graded based solely on the merit of each of it's qualities in some stringent metric, but there is an overarching quality that any film has that is definable, but it is super-hard to do so.[/quote
Actually, I'm all for this. I love the idea that there's an absolute objectivity behind it all. For that to be the case, however...I'm not sure you have to divorce a film from the viewer's experience. I do think you have to divorce it completely from both culturual impact and financial success. Well-directed movies follow similar patterns. They invite you to get lost in them, so to speak. They also require a critical, active eye and mindset. They are comprised of vivid moments, each milked for all their potential. Glossiness is the negative counterpart to that, or as Kael said, the relentless march of a movie to fulfill its obvious purpose. The best qualities for a movie to have are to be interesting, provocative, dense, enthralling.

It helps me to think of a good movie as a moving graphic novel. There's the initial punch of reading/seeing it for the first time. But a good graphic novel invites you to return to specific moments, to scrutinize them, and to be fascinated by them. A good movie offers the same.


Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:25 pm
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
Personally I think that there exists an objective base to what makes a great or good film. Perhaps this base is 50%. Perhaps 70%. Perhaps higher.

But there are a number of variables. Intangibles, if you like. If there wasn't, none of us would be here discussing films.

It's like economics, which is prone to assuming that people always make rational choices. But "rational" is not completely objectively defined either. It's rational for me to prefer chocolate to jumping off a cliff. But is it rational for me to prefer chocolate to sucking lemons, if I really really like lemons?

People are swayed and prejudiced by their own experiences.

I read an excellent customer review of The Room (2003) on Amazon, which said that it was the only film that (the reviewer) could give 0/5 objectively, but 5/5 subjectively. Fine, and I get it! But what if millions of people feel this way. When, and to what degree, does The Room become in any way an objectively good film?

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Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:09 am
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
NotHughGrant wrote:
I read an excellent customer review of The Room (2003) on Amazon, which said that it was the only film that (the reviewer) could give 0/5 objectively, but 5/5 subjectively. Fine, and I get it! But what if millions of people feel this way. When, and to what degree, does The Room become in any way an objectively good film?


Many advances in film have been defined by things which were once thought to be bad. Most obviously Godard, but studio execs were at first worried that The Godfather had poor lighting. Of course it wasn't a question of, Godfather has objectively poor lighting in places, but subjectively it's great. It's just that Godfather forced objective standards to be reevaluated and altered, as many great movies have.

But The Room...I haven't seen much, but what I have seen is not remotely unique or interesting. It's bad in a way that many amateur films are bad. It's popularity ust seems like another meme to me. There's nothing objectively impressive about the Harlem Shake videos, but I know plenty of people who'd subjectively give them 5/5.

But films which posture themselves as great works of art are usually bogus in their own way. There's no room for a viewer to be amused, inquisitive, or curious. White Elephant vs. Termite art is still one of the most important ideas around.


Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:58 am
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
Quote:
But The Room...I haven't seen much, but what I have seen is not remotely unique or interesting


The isn't true.

The Room's failures aren't merely down to the everyday, common or garden incompetence you'd find in a zillion other productions. It represents a concentrated, scene-to-scene demonstration of what can go wrong in film making, on a level that actually justifies its cult status.

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Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:30 am
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
1. Django Unchained
2. The Avengers
3. Skyfall
4. The Hobbit
5. The Dark Knight Rises
6. The Amazing Spider-Man
7. The Raid Redemption
8. Ted
9. The Cabin in The Woods
10. The Expendables 2


Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:43 pm
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
#1- Amour
#2- The Master
#3- Moonrise Kingdom
#4- Oslo, August 31st
#5- The Grey
#6- Frances Ha
#7- Chronicle
#8- Post Tenebras Lux
#9- Bernie
#10- The Perks of Being a Wallflower

Any questions?

I didn't see a lot of that which was critically and/or commercially acclaimed: Argo, Lincoln, Zero Dark Thirty, The Avengers, The Intouchables, and Cloud Atlas to name only a few. I may visit some or all of these movies at some later date.

I see Holy Motors on a few lists and express some puzzlement over how this obscure little object, which did stir some good conversation between myself and friends, could ever be considered good/bad/mediocre or anything in between -- it was very Holy Motors-ish. I do know I enjoyed talking about it more than I enjoyed watching it. It gets placed at #11 on my list because it should always be on the outside, just like it wants.

I saw and enjoyed many of the others listed (Looper, Skyfall, This is 40) and saw and didn't enjoy some others (Django Unchained, Silver Linings Playbook, The Dark Knight Rises).

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Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:06 am
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
Never post this here, so:

1. Cloud Atlas
2. Wreck-It Ralph
3. Moonrise Kingdom
4. The Dark Knight Rises
5. Skyfall
6. Silver Linings Playbook
7. Cabin in the Woods
8. Home (dir. Chookiat Sakveerakul)
9. The Avengers
10. Goon

HM: Zero Dark Thirty, The Impossible, Sleepless Night, Lincoln

Films I haven't seen that might make the list: The Master, Holy Motor, Perfect Sense


Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:45 am
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
Mark III wrote:
#1- Amour
#2- The Master
#3- Moonrise Kingdom
#4- Oslo, August 31st
#5- The Grey
#6- Frances Ha
#7- Chronicle
#8- Post Tenebras Lux
#9- Bernie
#10- The Perks of Being a Wallflower

Any questions?



Yes. Did you see Frances Ha in the Telluride or New York film festivals? Because otherwise, shouldn't it be 2013?

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Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:27 am
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
Went with IMDB's date with no consideration of release date. Seemed like a safe bet. Take it out, make it a top 9. Maybe add Looper at #10, why not.

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Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:13 pm
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
If I was to redo my list, which I'm not going to bother reposting, Amour would be #1 and Perks of Being a Wallflower might crack it. I watched that movie on a whim and was moved to tears by the end. Wonderful movie, that.

If I was to redo my list for 2013, Frances Ha would definitely make it, somewhere near 5th sounds about right. Another wonderful movie, that. And from a director I normally find insufferable.


Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:45 pm
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
PeachyPete wrote:
If I was to redo my list, which I'm not going to bother reposting, Amour would be #1 and Perks of Being a Wallflower might crack it. I watched that movie on a whim and was moved to tears by the end. Wonderful movie, that.

If I was to redo my list for 2013, Frances Ha would definitely make it, somewhere near 5th sounds about right. Another wonderful movie, that. And from a director I normally find insufferable.


If I were to redo mine I'd restructure the top 3, moving Django to the top, Argo to 3 and Looper to 2. Both Perks Of Being A Wallflower and End Of Watch would be in the top 15.

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Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:46 pm
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
Based on imdb's year of release.

1. Cloud Atlas
2. Jagten
3. The Cabin in the Woods
4. Life of Pi
5. Amour
6. Beasts of the Southern Wild
7. The Perks of Being a Wallflower
8. Django Unchained
9. Astronaut: The Last Push
10. The Broken Circle Breakdown

Honourable mentions:
Looper, Kauwboy, The Place Beyond the Pines, Dredd, Seeking a Friend for the End of the World, The Dark Knight Rises, Safety Not Guaranteed, Argo


Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:12 pm
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
PeachyPete wrote:
If I was to redo my list for 2013, Frances Ha would definitely make it, somewhere near 5th sounds about right. Another wonderful movie, that. And from a director I normally find insufferable.


That scene at the dinner table where Frances clearly feels less interesting, intelligent than everyone else is such great stuff. It hurt to watch it, so successful was her performance. Never noticed her before, that Greta.

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Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:41 pm
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
Mark III wrote:
Went with IMDB's date with no consideration of release date. Seemed like a safe bet. Take it out, make it a top 9. Maybe add Looper at #10, why not.

Agreed. I'm of the opinion that the film's world premiere date should be its official release date/year. Frankly, it's kind of arrogant to think that only the U.S. theatrical release date matters, no? :|

Incidentally, I initially posted this in the 2013 Top 10's thread, but since this thread has been resurrected...


HONORABLE MENTIONS: "To the Wonder," "Frankenweenie," "Mud," "Ruby Sparks"

10. "Beasts of the Southern Wild"
9. "The Place Beyond the Pines"
8. "Safety Not Guaranteed"
7. "Killing Them Softly"
6. "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey"
5. "Cloud Atlas"
4. "Frances Ha"
3. "Silver Linings Playbook"
2. "The Master"
1. "Moonrise Kingdom"


Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:47 pm
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
H.I. McDonough wrote:
Mark III wrote:
Went with IMDB's date with no consideration of release date. Seemed like a safe bet. Take it out, make it a top 9. Maybe add Looper at #10, why not.

Agreed. I'm of the opinion that the film's world premiere date should be its official release date/year. Frankly, it's kind of arrogant to think that only the U.S. theatrical release date matters, no? :|


Well it's not arrogant, it's just a bit confusing when we're looking at 2012 lists and a movie is listed that none of us could have seen when we actually made these lists.

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Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:16 pm
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
Sometimes the imdb data is for a few festival release dates that only like 10% of the general moviegoers see (nothing wrong with those who go by that though), so most of the time I go by the U.S. release date. If they are Asian or Thai movies that get here first and release later, I just list for both years, and attach notes to those movies for the later year's list.


Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:05 am
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
I wasn't on the boards that much in 2012 so, ah, what the hell. I'll go ahead and post mine.

1. Looper
2. Lincoln
3. Django Unchained
4. Zero Dark Thirty
5. Argo
6. Flight
7. Dark Knight Rises
8. Skyfall
9. Les Miserables
10. Moonrise Kingdom

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Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:58 am
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
Mark III wrote:
PeachyPete wrote:
If I was to redo my list for 2013, Frances Ha would definitely make it, somewhere near 5th sounds about right. Another wonderful movie, that. And from a director I normally find insufferable.


That scene at the dinner table where Frances clearly feels less interesting, intelligent than everyone else is such great stuff. It hurt to watch it, so successful was her performance. Never noticed her before, that Greta.


It reminded me of the scene in Rachel Getting Married where Anne Hathaway's gigantic mouth is doing something similar. This one had more nuance, says me. Both very good movies, those.

The ending was a cute, fitting small touch that felt both true to the character and a winking metaphor for the film's dealing with arrested adulthood. I really loved everything about that movie despite being skeptical going in.


Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:48 am
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
1 - 'The Master' (Anderson)
2 - 'Cloud Atlas' (The Wachowski Siblings/Tykwer)
3 - 'Zero Dark Thirty' (Bigelow)
4 - 'Django Unchained' (Tarantino)
5 - 'Skyfall' (Mendes)

The only four star film I completely, unequivocally loved from 2012 was The Master. Although I still haven't gotten around to Holy Motors, Amour, This is Not a Film and I few others I've planned to get around to.

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Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:14 am
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Post Re: Time to Man Up and Make a List: Your 2012 Top 10 (no hurry)
JamesKunz wrote:
H.I. McDonough wrote:
Mark III wrote:
Went with IMDB's date with no consideration of release date. Seemed like a safe bet. Take it out, make it a top 9. Maybe add Looper at #10, why not.

Agreed. I'm of the opinion that the film's world premiere date should be its official release date/year. Frankly, it's kind of arrogant to think that only the U.S. theatrical release date matters, no? :|


Well it's not arrogant, it's just a bit confusing when we're looking at 2012 lists and a movie is listed that none of us could have seen when we actually made these lists.

... which is why I wait a year to compile said lists. :P


Last edited by H.I. McDonough on Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:09 am, edited 2 times in total.



Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:29 am
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