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The Official NFL Thread 
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Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Gwaihir wrote:
I think the Broncs' much-vaunted offense was more a function of playing mostly shitty defenses, especially terrible secondaries, than anything else. They were definitely good, but it seemed that if they'd played in the NFC West instead they might not have been that good.

I don't think that the AFC is weaker than the NFC- quite the opposite, really. It's just that the Broncs' overall success model was built on offense more than defense, while the Seahawks went in the other direction. As countless teams before them have shown, defense trumps offense when it comes to big games. It also helps when you can prepare for a game with one specific team when planning your defensive strategy.

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Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:46 pm
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The only reason Peyton Manning has a ring is Rex Grossman. I've been saying this for years. There's no doubt he's a great quarterback and a first-ballot Hall of Famer. I'm just saying that the only reason he has a ring is Rex motherfucking Grossman. My theory keeps looking better every single year.

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Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:18 pm
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Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
KWRoss wrote:
The only reason Peyton Manning has a ring is Rex Grossman. I've been saying this for years. There's no doubt he's a great quarterback and a first-ballot Hall of Famer. I'm just saying that the only reason he has a ring is Rex motherfucking Grossman. My theory keeps looking better every single year.

The only reason his brother has 2 rings is because of the Giants' D in those years. Hell, look at the Ravens and Steelers: they are prime examples of powerful defenses winning championships.

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Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:32 pm
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Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Ragnarok73 wrote:
KWRoss wrote:
The only reason Peyton Manning has a ring is Rex Grossman. I've been saying this for years. There's no doubt he's a great quarterback and a first-ballot Hall of Famer. I'm just saying that the only reason he has a ring is Rex motherfucking Grossman. My theory keeps looking better every single year.

The only reason his brother has 2 rings is because of the Giants' D in those years. Hell, look at the Ravens and Steelers: they are prime examples of powerful defenses winning championships.


The Giants had good D, but the Patriots also had good D (along with an unbelievable offense in 07). Eli had a miracle catch by David Tyree in the 08 Super Bowl, and a miracle catch by Manningham in the 11' Super Bowl on his final drives. Also, Wes Welker, mr. Clutch, dropped Brady's perfect pass for the TD to win the last one.

I'm not saying the Giants didn't deserve to win because mistakes and miracles happen...but I believe that even though the Patriots lost, they were the better, more complete team. After last night, and watching all season, I believe the seahawks were definitely the best team in the NFL.

The way they played last night, Joe Montana/Steve Young with Jerry Rice would not have beat them.


Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:04 pm
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Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Maybe I'm just a little biased (not to mention bitter) as a die-hard Chicago Bears fan, but does anyone remember the Super Bowl that Peyton and the Colts won in Feb 2007? I remember it like it was yesterday. Grossman was so godawful in that game, throwing 2 interceptions (one returned for a TD) and fumbling two snaps, that many have argued he was more the MVP for the Colts than Peyton was. Never in my lifetime have I seen one player's fuck-ups so single-handedly responsible for the outcome of a Super Bowl. And he lost his starting job halfway through the next season.

So it's no surprise that when Peyton's teams play a huge game vs a QB who actually has his shit together, he comes up small.

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Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:54 pm
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Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
KWRoss wrote:
So it's no surprise that when Peyton's teams play a huge game vs a QB who actually has his shit together, he comes up small.


Dude, he just beat Tom Brady TWO WEEKS AGO! He also beat Brady in the AFC Championship 2 weeks before he beat the Bears in the Super Bowl. So, to say he ONLY has a ring because of Rex Grossman is one of those things that sounds good, but doesn't hold up. It ignores the entire season that took place before the Super Bowl in a biased effort to make Peyton look bad. As a general rule, any time someone begins a point with "the only reason", they're about to say something incredibly short-sighted.

The hate Peyton receives is absurd. First it was, win a Super Bowl. He did that, but somehow that's not good enough. So now it's, win more Super Bowls. Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Bress all only have 1 ring, and Favre is the only other guy to take his team back (and yes, I realize Rodgers and Brees have more years left), yet you never hear anyone fault their legacies. Favre, in particular, cost his team a ridiculous amount of games, both in the regular season and playoffs, by throwing back breaking interceptions at the worst possible time. Of course, when Favre is talked about he's remembered fondly as a gambler or gunslinger.

Trying to fault someone for WINNING A SUPER BOWL is the worst argument anyone can make. It's like the people who say Mike Shanahan hasn't done anything as a head coach without John Elway. As if you can just completely negate his winning two SBs with him (and no one ever mentions Elway was 0-4 in SBs before Shanny came to Denver). It literally makes no sense on any level. You can go through and nitpick virtually anyone's SB win in any given year. I could say Tom Brady only has 3 rings because of a combination of Adam Vinateri and a stout defense. It wasn't like Brady was throwing for 300 yards and 3 TDs in his big wins. I could say John Elway was a bad postseason QB because he had a 2-4 record in Super Bowls. I'm not going to say those things because they're asinine, biased points that don't truly reflect the talents of either player.

Peyton's resume speaks for itself - 1 ring, 3 SB appearances, and an NFL record 5 MVPs. He's the best, or second best, QB of his generation. That's not something you can even debate if you want to have a shred of credibility.


Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:56 am
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Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Like I said, if I had a vote, he's a first ballot Hall of Famer based on regular season accolades alone. No question about it. I'm just saying he had more help from the opposing QB in his one SB win than Rodgers, Favre, and Brees had in theirs. Seriously, I've never seen a gift-wrapping quite like it. I just can't ignore it.

Fair point about the use of the word "only." Wrong word on my part. And yes, he has won his fair share of big playoff games as well. But I stand by it as the biggest reason why he has a ring.

I can't believe I'm saying this because I know which poster from this board I'm about to sound like, but I'm basically responding to excessive hype. Before Manning even won a SB, ESPN was talking about him like the greatest thing since sliced bread. Yeah I know, that's what ESPN does so they can fill air time. But still, it gets a little bit much. Sorry, but with a 11-12 playoff record, spotty play in cold weather and a bigtime assist in his one SB win, I can't put Peyton at "the head of the table" so to speak.

PeachyPete wrote:
Favre, in particular, cost his team a ridiculous amount of games, both in the regular season and playoffs, by throwing back breaking interceptions at the worst possible time. Of course, when Favre is talked about he's remembered fondly as a gambler or gunslinger.


Oh man, you are so right on here. Whatever criticisms I have for Peyton applies tenfold to Favre. The 2009 season (his first with the Vikings) was physically painful for me to watch. Young QBs today who idolized Favre's gunslinging mentality growing up have picked the wrong guy IMHO. And John Madden (and later Jon Gruden) only made it worse with their constant slurping.

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Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:07 pm
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Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
PeachyPete wrote:
As if you can just completely negate his winning two SBs with him (and no one ever mentions Elway was 0-4 in SBs before Shanny came to Denver).


PeachyPete wrote:
I could say John Elway was a bad postseason QB because he had a 2-4 record in Super Bowls


John Elway had a 2-3 SB record, not 2-4. No starting QB has ever been to 6 SBs. His Losses were pretty bad though:

1986: Lost 39-20 vs Giants
1987: Lost 42-10 vs Redskins
1989: Lost 55-10 vs 49ers.

When Denver loses an SB....they lose BAAAADDDD.


Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:47 pm
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Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
On another note, holy crap are these awesome. Every team's logo mixed with Star Wars. Poor Redskins....

http://imgur.com/gallery/pchVS

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Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:02 pm
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Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
John Elway had a 2-3 SB record, not 2-4. No starting QB has ever been to 6 SBs. His Losses were pretty bad though:

1986: Lost 39-20 vs Giants
1987: Lost 42-10 vs Redskins
1989: Lost 55-10 vs 49ers.

When Denver loses an SB....they lose BAAAADDDD.


Yeah, you're right. Not sure how I botched that. I watched Sunday's game with a buddy who's been a Broncos fan all his life and he was completely mild mannered the whole time and didn't even really seem terribly upset by the thrashing his boys took. I said something to him about it and he said he was used to the Broncos getting blown out in Super Bowls, and this game wasn't going to change that. I found it funny, but at least he did get to see those 2 Ws in the late 90s.

Incidentally, that Redskins-Denver Super Bowl is the first football game I can remember watching. I was 5 at the time. You guys care about that deeply, I know.


Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:18 pm
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