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Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment 
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
Blonde Almond wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
Ken wrote:
I'm struggling to pick a favorite film that he's done. Right now, Capote's looking good.


"That did not cross our mind, dude"


The Big Lebowski was on television this last week, and even though I've seen the film several times before, it was only watching it then that I realized just how great he is in his small role. His awkward reactions to Bunny's sexual offers to the Dude, particularly his matter-of-fact "That's marvelous," tickled me so much I ripped them off of YouTube and made them the sounds that play whenever I get texts. I'm going to have to retire those now.

.


His role in the Big Lebowski is far more pivotal than he gets credit for. Despite being an horrendous suckup, he also presents a voice of reason and a kind of in-built narration for the relatively few scenes he's in.

In short, Hoffman was clearly one of the most naturally gifted actors to have graced the screen. That said, I feel that his career is unfulfilled, because in his life, I think the industry (despite recognising his great talent) struggled to fully know what to do with him. Think the bizarre roles in Red Dragon and Moneyball that were simply beneath him*

The term "best years ahead of him/her" is abused to the point of cliché. But with PSH I feel it to be exactly true. At 46 he had a good 2 decades at his peak as an actor left. Such a waste.

RIP.

* I like Moneyball, but he was a helluva strange piece of casting as the team's coach.

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Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:20 am
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
Many of his movies fall into a style that doesn't have a lot of appeal to me. Even at that, I've seen at least five with the most recent being Moneyball. He seemed to have had a knack for projecting the flaws of the characters he played in such a way that no backstory was really required to understand the character. If ever anyone could live the part, it seems as though he could. It is always really sad to lose someone at a relatively early age. I pray for peace to his family and friends.


Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:53 am
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
I think The Dissolve said it best: "A list of Hoffman credits reads like a list of the best American movies of the last two decades."

There's too many great performances and films for me to pick a favorite, and as others have noted, he was always excellent in whatever movie he was in, and seemed to be genuinely passionate about his craft. Struggling with drug addiction is always tough because on one hand you feel sympathy for someone who's trying to overcome the addiction and can't, but on the other it's a largely self-inflicted problem and they have to be held responsible on some level. Sad and unnecessary are the words that come to mind.

It's not a stretch to say he's one of the greatest actors of any time, and to lose him so young makes me sad.


Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:30 am
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
Ken wrote:
Ragnarok73 wrote:
Apparently, the cause of death was drug overdose. Goddamnit. I am among those who will miss one of the great actors of his generation, but the cause of death does tarnish it a bit for me.

I don't know that it should. It's something he tried to beat and just couldn't do it. It happens to a lot of good people.

We don't know that he tried to beat it. I realize that something likely compelled him to partake of drugs for reasons other than being told to do so by a practicing M.D., but for me, it takes away from his legacy.

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Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:16 pm
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
Ragnarok73 wrote:
Ken wrote:
Ragnarok73 wrote:
Apparently, the cause of death was drug overdose. Goddamnit. I am among those who will miss one of the great actors of his generation, but the cause of death does tarnish it a bit for me.

I don't know that it should. It's something he tried to beat and just couldn't do it. It happens to a lot of good people.

We don't know that he tried to beat it. I realize that something likely compelled him to partake of drugs for reasons other than being told to do so by a practicing M.D., but for me, it takes away from his legacy.


Because his drug addiction made him less of an actor? I wholeheartedly disagree. What would "his legacy" be other than his work?


Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:25 pm
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
Ragnarok73 wrote:
Ken wrote:
Ragnarok73 wrote:
Apparently, the cause of death was drug overdose. Goddamnit. I am among those who will miss one of the great actors of his generation, but the cause of death does tarnish it a bit for me.

I don't know that it should. It's something he tried to beat and just couldn't do it. It happens to a lot of good people.

We don't know that he tried to beat it. I realize that something likely compelled him to partake of drugs for reasons other than being told to do so by a practicing M.D., but for me, it takes away from his legacy.


We do, in fact know, that he tried to beat it. It's been well documented that he was a heroin addict in his early 20s, kicked the habit and was clean for years, and relapsed at some point in recent years. He checked himself into rehab last year, too. Unless you're saying you don't believe these things for some odd reason (which, if that's the case, reasoning should be provided), I'd suggest doing a bit of research before saying such things.


Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:39 pm
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
PeachyPete wrote:
We do, in fact know, that he tried to beat it. It's been well documented that he was a heroin addict in his early 20s, kicked the habit and was clean for years, and relapsed at some point in recent years. He checked himself into rehab last year, too. Unless you're saying you don't believe these things for some odd reason (which, if that's the case, reasoning should be provided), I'd suggest doing a bit of research before saying such things.

Ok, so he did, so I'll take my first statement back. However, he obviously didn't beat it in the end, did he? Dying of a drug overdose in a hotel room is almost a cliche for celebrities, and for me, that takes away from his legacy. I think I've stated in both of my previous posts that this is my take on things, in case your research didn't uncover that.

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Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:43 pm
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
That's like, your opinion, man.

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Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:02 pm
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
Weird that so many don't consider addiction a disease(lots of evidence it's hereditary etc)


Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:05 pm
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
It's tough for me to see addictions as a disease when it is possible for many to decide to give it up and succeed. May very well be that there are varying levels of addiction, but I'm more inclined to believe addictions are mainly by-products of depression.

I'm primarily a libertarian though and really don't mind if someone chooses, either directly or indirectly, to take or destroy their own life. Nothing to admire or aspire to, but their choice as a free being. That he was able to fend it off for 20 years to produce some outstanding performances for us to admire is a blessing for us, if not for him.


Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:27 pm
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
CasualDad wrote:
It's tough for me to see addictions as a disease when it is possible for many to decide to give it up and succeed. May very well be that there are varying levels of addiction, but I'm more inclined to believe addictions are mainly by-products of depression.

I'm primarily a libertarian though and really don't mind if someone chooses, either directly or indirectly, to take or destroy their own life. Nothing to admire or aspire to, but their choice as a free being. That he was able to fend it off for 20 years to produce some outstanding performances for us to admire is a blessing for us, if not for him.

I've taken a class on addiction and it IS a disease, you can't just decide to "give it up" it's not that easy, my aunt tried to quit smoking only to relapse and she did genuinely want to quit. Some of my other distant relatives had alcohol addictions that they just could not overcome.


Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:53 pm
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
Since I have given up alcohol (although I guess I can't count myself as a success unless I live the remainder of my life without relapse) and know several people who quit cigarettes cold turkey in mid-life and then lived out the rest of their lives tobacco free - yes you can just quit if so determined. If your instructor has told you that this is impossible then your instructor was quite mistaken. Heroin - probably not so easy, but it has been done before.


Last edited by CasualDad on Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:02 pm
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
I'm not sure I'd consider addiction a "disease" per se--the word has certain health-related connotations that don't quite fit.

But, having said that, I see absolutely no reason for the negative value judgment that people place on addicts. Addiction is a human problem, and addicts are, first and foremost, people who need help. Some of them can deal with it on their own, but some can't, and that doesn't make them any less deserving of people's goodwill. The only purpose of judging addicts so harshly is to shame them into keeping their problem private, and to prevent them from getting the help that they need. Is that really worth giving non-addicts something to look down their noses at?

Perhaps PSH and countless dead people whose lives aren't nearly as glamorized would be alive now, if our society didn't have such a heartless attitude toward the things they struggled with.

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Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:04 pm
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
Ken wrote:
That's like, your opinion, man.

HIs life was in his own hands, Dude.

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Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:32 pm
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
Since I value myself (a recovering alcoholic that drank to excess for 23 years) I obviously agree with you on the individual value judgement Ken. I do, however, believe that a person must be self-motivated to overcome the addiction. No amount of help given to someone that does not himself have a single purpose desire to overcome will actually be helpful. You may succeed in altering their behavior, but they will very likely be no more happy for the change.


Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:33 pm
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
Ken wrote:
I'm not sure I'd consider addiction a "disease" per se--the word has certain health-related connotations that don't quite fit.

But, having said that, I see absolutely no reason for the negative value judgment that people place on addicts. Addiction is a human problem, and addicts are, first and foremost, people who need help. Some of them can deal with it on their own, but some can't, and that doesn't make them any less deserving of people's goodwill. The only purpose of judging addicts so harshly is to shame them into keeping their problem private, and to prevent them from getting the help that they need. Is that really worth giving non-addicts something to look down their noses at?

Perhaps PSH and countless dead people whose lives aren't nearly as glamorized would be alive now, if our society didn't have such a heartless attitude toward the things they struggled with.

I'm one of those who think that getting over an addiction starts with the person who is addicted, that it's a matter of willpower. Also, the last time I checked, substance abusers made up a minority of the population (no, I don't count nicotine and caffeine), which means that most people don't turn to drugs to hide themselves from reality. While I agree that societal issues can increase the number of people who abuse substances, that is far from my condoning the the abuse. I see it much in the same way I see crime and society: yep, a less healthy society does make for a larger number of criminals, but that doesn't mean I think that the criminals deserve their punishments any less.

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Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:36 pm
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
CasualDad wrote:
Since I value myself (a recovering alcoholic that drank to excess for 23 years) I obviously agree with you on the individual value judgement Ken. I do, however, believe that a person must be self-motivated to overcome the addiction. No amount of help given to someone that does not himself have a single purpose desire to overcome will actually be helpful. You may succeed in altering their behavior, but they will very likely be no more happy for the change.

I do agree with that. You can't make someone get better without them wanting to get better for their own benefit first. They call it step one for a reason.

Ragnarok73 wrote:
I'm one of those who think that getting over an addiction starts with the person who is addicted, that it's a matter of willpower. Also, the last time I checked, substance abusers made up a minority of the population (no, I don't count nicotine and caffeine), which means that most people don't turn to drugs to hide themselves from reality. While I agree that societal issues can increase the number of people who abuse substances, that is far from my condoning the the abuse. I see it much in the same way I see crime and society: yep, a less healthy society does make for a larger number of criminals, but that doesn't mean I think that the criminals deserve their punishments any less.

You're entitled to your outlook, but I don't see the purpose of it.

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Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:41 pm
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
Ken wrote:
Ragnarok73 wrote:
I'm one of those who think that getting over an addiction starts with the person who is addicted, that it's a matter of willpower. Also, the last time I checked, substance abusers made up a minority of the population (no, I don't count nicotine and caffeine), which means that most people don't turn to drugs to hide themselves from reality. While I agree that societal issues can increase the number of people who abuse substances, that is far from my condoning the the abuse. I see it much in the same way I see crime and society: yep, a less healthy society does make for a larger number of criminals, but that doesn't mean I think that the criminals deserve their punishments any less.

You're entitled to your outlook, but I don't see the purpose of it.

It would be nice if there were less addicts acting as a drain on society, don't you think? Maybe you're perfectly fine with the notion of being mugged by a junkie who needs money for his/her next fix, but I'm not. I don't think I'd go quite as far as the Chinese did (round up all addicts and dealers and just shoot them all), but sometimes I think their solution isn't such a bad one, since you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet.

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Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:05 pm
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
That's a stereotype.

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Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:18 pm
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Post Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead in his apartment
Ken wrote:
That's a stereotype.

Junkies doing anything to get their fix is a "stereotype"? I hope you're joking. PSH likely didn't need to go to those lengths because I imagine that his fame and income as a well-known actor made access to drugs like heroin easier to obtain. However, most drug addicts on the street don't have the same resources as someone like Hoffman. If you were talking about the Chinese: drug trafficking is still a capital offense in China to this very day, as this article from last year shows.

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Last edited by Ragnarok73 on Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:26 pm
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