Discussion of movies and ReelThoughts topics

It is currently Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:25 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Gravity Backlash? 
Author Message
Director
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:07 pm
Posts: 1522
Post Gravity Backlash?
http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/gravity/28901/the-depressing-gravity-backlash

I expected if any film would come in for backlash it would be 12 Years A Slave (or American Hustle). But in some ways it isn't surprising.

I remember a reelthought JB wrote a few years back about backlash. This was in response to a backlash against Precious. Later on, there were similar ones against Argo and The Help. Argo won Best Picture sure. But it took a beating on the way to the final run. Precious ultimately was undone by the backlash and The Help was never truly as far as I can tell regarded as a serious contender. But by the night of the ceremony, the screaming had gotten so loud many people were wondering how it got nominated for anything. It could be argued as well that the backlash cost Viola Davis her Oscar and in that regard led to Meryl Streep getting her least deserved one for The Iron Lady.

I've seen it contemplated that a backlash cost The Social Network its Best Picture Oscar. I'm not too sure. It seemed that the bulk of the vitriol that year was targeted primarily at Inception. With The Social Network, it was more or less regarded as the frontrunner as the year-ended. Then we got a loose replay of what happened with Shakespeare In Love:

Quote:
This was the year that Harvey Weinstein went all-out in promoting Shakespeare in Love. It is widely accepted that his lavish spending and freewheeling approach to Oscar marketing bought the award.


Same thing happened in 2010. Although it also cost Fincher his best director Oscar. It can be legitimately debated as to whether or not The King's Speech is a better film than The Social Network. But you're not going to convince me it was better directed. From the standpoint of three years later, many seem to be regarding The Social Network as a modern classic or close to it (although I would argue that at least ten years must have passed before that can be legitimately determined) while The King's Speech is regarded as a good, not great, movie, one that's more or less a safe choice IE: The English Patient and the aforementioned Shakespeare In Love. Likewise, the aforementioned English patient beat Fargo. But from the standpoint of 18 years later, Fargo is the one that's considered a classic while The English Patient is pretty much forgotten aside from frequently popping up on lists of least deserving Oscar winners.

So will this backlash cost Gravity its chances? Will a similar one pop up against American Hustle? Will others follow Armond White in railing against 12 Years A Slave?

_________________
This ain't a city council meeting you know-Joe Cabot

Cinema is a matter of what's in the frame and what's out-Martin Scorsese.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1347771599


Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:43 pm
Profile
Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:44 pm
Posts: 1592
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
It always comes down to one thing: HYPE. Backlash is directly proportional to hype. If a films proponents stop acting like a 12 year old dude seeing his first pair of tits, detractors would be much more quiet I assure you. If you love a movie, explain why in a calm, collected manner. You can't just effuse emotion with stuff like "best movie ever" and expect people like White to keep shut. Because no matter how genuine you are, you're goading whether you realize it or not. And then it's fair for detractors to get angry.


Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:01 pm
Profile
Assistant Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:37 am
Posts: 985
Location: Laurel, MD
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
Backlash is only natural when a movie draws rave reviews and lots of people see it. My rule of thumb is to remember how I felt about the movie and tune out all the noise. That JB article you mention is something I always go back and read around Oscar time as a friendly reminder.

The crazy thing is that I'm almost the exact opposite when it comes to sports. I always root for the dynasties to fall because a) it gets boring to see the same team win all the time, and b) the hype and noise from fans/analysts gets to be a little too much. It's totally irrational, I know. But so it goes with many, many, many passionate fans. With movies though, I don't have a horse in the race. Any movie in any genre has the potential to be great, and I like seeing greatness.

I'll make one exception though: the Twilight series. The popularity behind that is secondary to the problems the movies themselves have. Vexer and Dustin Putman have laid those out a lot better than I can. ;)

_________________
https://www.facebook.com/ken.rossman.5


Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:08 pm
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:42 pm
Posts: 1333
Location: Bangkok
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
For me the word backlash goes in the same territory with "overrated": I understand the sentiment behind it, but can't help but feeling exasperated when it pops up.


Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:36 pm
Profile
Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:44 pm
Posts: 1592
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
Saving Private Ryan is great, but has flaws which some of its advocates never wanted to talk about. That creates frustration, and I've read speculation that that frustration worked against it at the time. It also came out in July and thus had a whole 7 months to work up a backlash. Gravity, too, has problems that its advocates seem unwilling to address.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Bullock saves clooney when she grabs hold of his tether; there was nothing to pull him away from her anymore. Yet he lets go just so bullock can cry some more. It's a rip-off of a scene from Mission to Mars, where it actually made sense.


^^^peng - the other side feels exasperated too.


Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:42 pm
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:42 pm
Posts: 1333
Location: Bangkok
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
What other side? The side that soaks in the news of what other people think about certain films too much (so much that they feel justified to be rude about it) I think.


Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:09 pm
Profile
Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:44 pm
Posts: 1592
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
peng wrote:
What other side? The side that soaks in the news of what other people think about certain films too much (so much that they feel justified to be rude about it) I think.


Yeah, they are justified.


Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:12 pm
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:35 am
Posts: 2014
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
MGamesCook wrote:
Saving Private Ryan is great, but has flaws which some of its advocates never wanted to talk about. That creates frustration, and I've read speculation that that frustration worked against it at the time. It also came out in July and thus had a whole 7 months to work up a backlash. Gravity, too, has problems that its advocates seem unwilling to address.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Bullock saves clooney when she grabs hold of his tether; there was nothing to pull him away from her anymore. Yet he lets go just so bullock can cry some more. It's a rip-off of a scene from Mission to Mars, where it actually made sense.


^^^peng - the other side feels exasperated too.


Have you ever heard of the word "inertia"?

_________________
Evil does not wear a bonnet!--Mr. Tinkles


Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:13 pm
Profile
Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:44 pm
Posts: 1592
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
Syd,
[Reveal] Spoiler:
She stopped him. There was no more momentum.


Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:18 pm
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:42 pm
Posts: 1333
Location: Bangkok
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
If people being rude and using profanity towards you are justified by your movies probably getting too much love (of which you have not that much control over), I am glad I am not in the business.

MGamesCook wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Bullock saves clooney when she grabs hold of his tether; there was nothing to pull him away from her anymore. Yet he lets go just so bullock can cry some more. It's a rip-off of a scene from Mission to Mars, where it actually made sense.



It was entertaining.


Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:20 pm
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 2157
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
MGamesCook wrote:
Syd,
[Reveal] Spoiler:
She stopped him. There was no more momentum.

Gravity took a small handful of liberties with physics, which is about 5,000 less liberties than the average movie takes in order to up the drama.

_________________
The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.


Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:27 pm
Profile
Critic
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:35 am
Posts: 7275
Location: Easton, MD
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
Ken wrote:
Gravity took a small handful of liberties with physics, which is about 5,000 less liberties than the average movie takes in order to up the drama.


Indeed. Also...

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Movies are in no way obligated to be realistic, historically accurate, or faithful to anything but their own stories.

_________________
I'm lithe and fierce as a tiger


Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:32 pm
Profile
Second Unit Director

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:14 am
Posts: 288
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
KWRoss wrote:
The crazy thing is that I'm almost the exact opposite when it comes to sports. I always root for the dynasties to fall because a) it gets boring to see the same team win all the time, and b) the hype and noise from fans/analysts gets to be a little too much. It's totally irrational, I know. But so it goes with many, many, many passionate fans. With movies though, I don't have a horse in the race. Any movie in any genre has the potential to be great, and I like seeing greatness.


I feel this way too, KW. Unless you're a born-and-bred fan of a dynasty (which doesn't often happen for me) you get sick of seeing the same teams, players, coaches, etc. in the playoffs. Since the Super Bowl matchup is set I will say this: I had no horses in the playoffs as of last week, but I'm glad I won't have to hear anymore about how amazing Colin Kaepernick and Tom Brady are. Yes, we'll have two weeks of hype about Peyton Manning (which is why I will avoid ESPN like the plague until after the 2/2, and even then I'll probably avoid it, don't like ESPN) and the Seattle defense, but if Pete Carroll weren't their head coach I'd be 100% behind the Seahawks because the franchise hasn't won a Super Bowl yet.

As for backlash in film, I agree that I don't usually see it. Rarely do I change my mind in a negative direction on subsequent viewings of a movie. Usually I stick to my initial impression, although some really don't hold up as well on repeat viewings (The Avengers, I'm looking at you).


Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:53 pm
Profile
Second Unit Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:57 pm
Posts: 418
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
All I'll say about a Gravity backlash



Called it.


Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:54 pm
Profile
Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:44 pm
Posts: 1592
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
Quote:
Movies are in no way obligated to be realistic, historically accurate, or faithful to anything but their own stories.


I was under the impression that Gravity's story is that two astronauts are marooned in space, trying to get home. So that scene qualifies as a breach to its own story.


Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:08 am
Profile
Auteur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pm
Posts: 3366
Location: Zion, IL
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
Gwaihir wrote:
KWRoss wrote:
The crazy thing is that I'm almost the exact opposite when it comes to sports. I always root for the dynasties to fall because a) it gets boring to see the same team win all the time, and b) the hype and noise from fans/analysts gets to be a little too much. It's totally irrational, I know. But so it goes with many, many, many passionate fans. With movies though, I don't have a horse in the race. Any movie in any genre has the potential to be great, and I like seeing greatness.


I feel this way too, KW. Unless you're a born-and-bred fan of a dynasty (which doesn't often happen for me) you get sick of seeing the same teams, players, coaches, etc. in the playoffs. Since the Super Bowl matchup is set I will say this: I had no horses in the playoffs as of last week, but I'm glad I won't have to hear anymore about how amazing Colin Kaepernick and Tom Brady are. Yes, we'll have two weeks of hype about Peyton Manning (which is why I will avoid ESPN like the plague until after the 2/2, and even then I'll probably avoid it, don't like ESPN) and the Seattle defense, but if Pete Carroll weren't their head coach I'd be 100% behind the Seahawks because the franchise hasn't won a Super Bowl yet.

As for backlash in film, I agree that I don't usually see it. Rarely do I change my mind in a negative direction on subsequent viewings of a movie. Usually I stick to my initial impression, although some really don't hold up as well on repeat viewings (The Avengers, I'm looking at you).

This why i'm very happy that i'm not a sports fan, it feels good to not care one bit about the Super Bowl or anything like that.

It's also rare for me to change my mind about a film after I see it.


Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:09 am
Profile
Second Unit Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:07 pm
Posts: 377
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
Vexer wrote:
This why i'm very happy that i'm not a sports fan, it feels good to not care one bit about the Super Bowl or anything like that.


You didn't play baseball or soccer or football or golf or anything else growing up? Your high school didn't have a football team to cheer for?

As for dynasties, I will support the notion of two: I will cheer for, support, and donate $$$ to Auburn to help them be more successful and actively pull against Alabama in everything until the day I die. I will also always pull for America in any international sporting event, or pretty much anything in general.


Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:54 am
Profile
Assistant Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:37 am
Posts: 985
Location: Laurel, MD
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
Gwaihir wrote:
Yes, we'll have two weeks of hype about Peyton Manning (which is why I will avoid ESPN like the plague until after the 2/2, and even then I'll probably avoid it, don't like ESPN)


You should see the amount of Dallas Cowboys fans where I live. It's pretty funny. I'd wager most of them have never even set foot in Texas. :roll:

Now about Gravity....

It's funny this thread came up today, because I just saw the movie again earlier this afternoon (I'd been bugging my mom to see it and she finally agreed to) and I felt largely the same as I did the first time around when I saw an advance screening. You can google "Gravity scientific inaccuracies" and come up with a boatload of articles. But when the director and actors do a good job engaging me, that stuff is on the back-burner. The fact of the matter is that even though I knew how events would play out, my heart was pounding during certain sequences. I didn't expect that on a second go-around. There's just something about the combination of the situation, Cuaron's camerawork, and the score that just clicked perfectly for me. I easily sympathized with Bullock's character, and her emotional journey, confronting her own mortality and will to keep fighting, resonated big-time. If anything is a tad guilty of overhype, it's the 3D. This movie would've had a strong impact on me even without it.

My Top 2 movies (Fruitvale Station, 12 Years a Slave) both deliver haymakers to the heart and deal with the really dark, seedy sides of human nature, but I need a movie like Gravity too because it made me feel good to be alive. Sounds corny, I know, but I'm a sucker and it worked its magic on me again. As for its Oscar chances though, Cuaron has a decent shot at Best Director, but I'm not sure it'll win more than a few technical awards. And yes, I'm with you guys that Cinematography doesn't really count since most of the film was accomplished on a computer. ;)

_________________
https://www.facebook.com/ken.rossman.5


Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:59 am
Profile
Auteur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pm
Posts: 3366
Location: Zion, IL
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
Vexer wrote:
This why i'm very happy that i'm not a sports fan, it feels good to not care one bit about the Super Bowl or anything like that.


You didn't play baseball or soccer or football or golf or anything else growing up? Your high school didn't have a football team to cheer for?

As for dynasties, I will support the notion of two: I will cheer for, support, and donate $$$ to Auburn to help them be more successful and actively pull against Alabama in everything until the day I die. I will also always pull for America in any international sporting event, or pretty much anything in general.

I played them in school when I was required to for gym class, but I never really enjoyed playing sports as I was not a very athletic kid(volleyball was OK I guess). I went to a high school for special needs kids, so they didn't have a football team or anything like that. But if even if there was one I probably would not be cheering or jeering for it, I would just be largely indifferent to the whole thing like I am with the Super Bowl now.

I did use to golf with my grandfather and compared to other sports that wasn't so bad, but it's not something I really want to go out of my way to do. I do kinda like bowling if that counts as a sport.


Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:08 am
Profile
Second Unit Director
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:49 am
Posts: 380
Post Re: Gravity Backlash?
MGamesCook wrote:
peng wrote:
What other side? The side that soaks in the news of what other people think about certain films too much (so much that they feel justified to be rude about it) I think.


Yeah, they are justified.


The only time being rude is justified is in the service of safety or defending things that matter (and the Oscars or any other stated opinion/award don't matter). That said...

MGamesCook wrote:
It always comes down to one thing: HYPE. Backlash is directly proportional to hype. If a films proponents stop acting like a 12 year old dude seeing his first pair of tits, detractors would be much more quiet I assure you. If you love a movie, explain why in a calm, collected manner. You can't just effuse emotion with stuff like "best movie ever" and expect people like White to keep shut. Because no matter how genuine you are, you're goading whether you realize it or not. And then it's fair for detractors to get angry.


I mostly agree with this. And I certainly don't want opposing opinions to not be voiced. But they can be presented passionately without being dickish/rude/dismissive/whatever. But the inverse is true as well: if all someone says is "Gravity sucks," that's goading as well. As you said, it must be more than just tossing out DVD-cover tidbits, but if someone has a passionate, well-articulated and meaningful explanation for their feelings that includes/concludes "best movie ever"-like feelings, there's nothing wrong with that.

The only part of the above I don't agree with is that one must be "calm." Why do lovers have to be calm when you don't expect haters to? That's senseless. Art should provoke great response. I have more respect, generally, for the films I hate than for the films I find forgettable.


Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:20 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forum/DivisionCore.
Translated by Xaphos © 2007, 2008, 2009 phpBB.fr