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So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread... 
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
Pedro wrote:
Also, if you had a hall of fame ballot, which way do you go?


Well, I will always support Pete Rose being in the Hall of Fame. That sombitch has the most hits out of anybody that has ever played. Think about that. More than Ty Cobb, or Ted Williams, or Hank Aaron, or Honus Wagner, or Willie Mays. He can't get in because he bet on games...but who honestly gives a fuck? He NEVER BET ON THE OTHER TEAM. He always bet on his team to cover or win.

To me that is just having faith in your team and knowing that you are a #BAUCE.

Michael Jordan bet on games and had to "retire" for a year, was allowed to come back and won 3 more championships. PGA professionals bet millions on the side every match, and it's not only not frowned upon, but supported.

Pete Rose deserves recognition.


Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:11 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
I spend hours a week researching cricketing statistics. I was perhaps ignorant of baseball because i always considered it to require less technique than cricket. But looking closer, it is more techical than I thought, and because the structure is even more contrived than cricket, the is a interesting scope for stats junkies like me

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Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:01 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
For Pete Rose, I consider it a no-brainer. Let him in. He has the most hits of anyone who ever played and I don't know how many people outside of purists really care about his gambling transgressions anymore. For the steroid users, I really don't know a catch-all solution. I've gone back and forth on it more times than I can remember. Keep the blatantly obvious cheaters out, even if they never failed a test (guys like Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc.) and lay the hammer down on anyone who fails a test.

Regarding sabermetrics, I'm with Kunz on this. I feel like screaming at Kornheiser & Wilbon on PTI whenever they pound the pulpit of Wins being the most important pitching stat and crush Felix Hernandez for that Cy Young he won in 2010. It's not his fault he had the shittiest run support in baseball.

My dad even made up a stat called FTARISP. Failure-To-Advance-Runners-In-Scoring-Position. It's pretty awesome.

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Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:34 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
JamesKunz wrote:
Pedro wrote:
James, Blonde, KW: do you guys like any of the advanced sabermetric stats? Do you use any of them in evaluating the value of a player? Or are you fine with the good ol' slash line and... whatever the equivalent of slash line is for pitchers?


If there's a political spectrum of statistics, with sabermetrics on the left and old-schools AVG/HR/RBI on the right, then I'm center-left. I like OBP and SLG a lot, I like ERA and WHIP, and while I'm very skeptical of WAR I also know that pitching wins and batting averages are of limited value.


I feel about the same way as Kunz on this topic. While there is definitely value in many advanced statistics, I think allowing them to completely influence the way you look at the game is a mistake. I feel like the best approach to take is a blending of old school and new school.

Also, like Kunz, I'm not too fond of the recent overreliance on WAR to value a player's worth. Too much emphasis placed on the defensive position of a player. That stat was how sabermetricians were able to argue that Andrew McCutchen deserved the NL MVP over Paul Goldschmidt, and I never felt like they were able to put across a convincing argument. McCutchen is a great player, but the only reason he won that award was because it was a good story.

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Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:22 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
Blonde Almond wrote:
I feel about the same way as Kunz on this topic. While there is definitely value in many advanced statistics, I think allowing them to completely influence the way you look at the game is a mistake. I feel like the best approach to take is a blending of old school and new school.

Also, like Kunz, I'm not too fond of the recent overreliance on WAR to value a player's worth. Too much emphasis placed on the defensive position of a player. That stat was how sabermetricians were able to argue that Andrew McCutchen deserved the NL MVP over Paul Goldschmidt, and I never felt like they were able to put across a convincing argument. McCutchen is a great player, but the only reason he won that award was because it was a good story.

I think if you ask the people who voted for him, he won the award because he carried his team to the postseason. The MVP award doesn't necessarily go to the best offensive contributor, even if it should. For what it's worth, though, Paul's defense and baserunning are quite comparable to McCutchen's. If I had a vote, I'd probably vote for Goldschmidt.

I guess I'm a little more liberal about the steroids guys than you-all are. I'm admit I'm biased because Barry Bonds was a Giant for so long, but I do think it's hard to know when to draw the line. People who used amphetamines are in the Hall of Fame, after all. I'm still working out my opinion on the matter, though, because I feel better about Bonds and Clemens going in than McGwire, Sosa, and Palmeiro. I'm not sure that makes a whole lot of sense. If given a ballot, I'd probably vote for Maddux, Bonds, Clemens, Piazza, Thomas, Bagwell, Biggio, Mussina, Glavine, and Martinez. There are lots of others I could have voted for. I forget who, but someone somewhere who's very good at predicting these things asserted that Maddux is going to be the only one who makes it in this year, which would be... not nonsense, but certainly not a positive. That ballot's gettin' crowded!

I agree on Pete Rose.

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Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:04 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
Perhaps unexpectedly, Hall of Fame voter Ken Gurnick revealed that his ballot was Jack Morris and Jack Morris only.
Quote:
Morris has flaws -- a 3.90 ERA, for example. But he gets my vote for more than a decade of ace performance that included three 20-win seasons, Cy Young Award votes in seven seasons and Most Valuable Player Award votes in five. As for those who played during the period of PED use, I won't vote for any of them.
We'll ignore that the period of PED use started while Jack Morris was dicking around winning a World Series or two, if not before.


In another instance of bad Hall of Fame voting...
Quote:
TOM SINGER, Pirates beat reporter
Biggio, Glavine, Maddux, Martinez, Mussina, Palmeiro, Smith, Thomas.

...

Palmeiro was a consistent marvel long before he was caught doping.
I guess Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, and Sosa weren't consistent marvels?


There's always someone going against the grain, so my question to you is this: should Hall of Fame voters be held accountable for who they vote for? Also, should the ten-person voting limit be expanded? Also also, should the pool of potential voters be expanded? You know, so your favorite broadcaster can have a say? Also, Pete Rose.

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:28 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
Like I said earlier, the steroid issue with regards to the Hall of Fame is ridiculously thorny and tough to come up with a catch-all solution for. If you were to ask me right now, I'd say let anyone in whose numbers deserve it, and if he played during the Steroid Era, put an asterisk on it. But even that approach is controversial. I might change my mind a month or two later. It's just that difficult.

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:52 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
Pedro wrote:
Perhaps unexpectedly, Hall of Fame voter Ken Gurnick revealed that his ballot was Jack Morris and Jack Morris only.
Quote:
Morris has flaws -- a 3.90 ERA, for example. But he gets my vote for more than a decade of ace performance that included three 20-win seasons, Cy Young Award votes in seven seasons and Most Valuable Player Award votes in five. As for those who played during the period of PED use, I won't vote for any of them.
We'll ignore that the period of PED use started while Jack Morris was dicking around winning a World Series or two, if not before.




Man this pissed me off. They both played in eras of steroid use and Maddux was SUCH a better pitcher it's not even funny. Jack Morris had a 3.90 goddamn ERA.

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Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:29 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
It's a silly vote on his part, no doubt. Bottom line though, if I were a player hoping to reach the HOF, I'd be happy regardless of whether I got in at 95, 82, or even 75.1%. No one will ever be voted in unanimously because voters are human, and some of them perform some impressive mental gymnastics to justify their choices.

EDIT: Hmmmmm.... Maddux, Glavine, and Frank Thomas made it in easily today, but Craig Biggio got 74.8% of the vote. Good job, blank-balloters.

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Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:27 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
What are everyone's thoughts on Instant Replay being added for 2014? I'm all for it; getting calls right is important. Plus, I don't buy the "it'll make the games too long" logic. If you're a fan of a particular team, you're invested in the outcome of the game, including reversing potential bad calls that could cost you a game or even a series (I don't think I need to name the most obvious historical example here). So taking the extra time to get it right matters.

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Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:33 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
KWRoss wrote:
What are everyone's thoughts on Instant Replay being added for 2014? I'm all for it; getting calls right is important. Plus, I don't buy the "it'll make the games too long" logic. If you're a fan of a particular team, you're invested in the outcome of the game, including reversing potential bad calls that could cost you a game or even a series (I don't think I need to name the most obvious historical example here). So taking the extra time to get it right matters.

I agree. I think it's one of the most obvious things about the game that has needed to change, and now it's changing. I even like the idea of having only two challenges due to the strategy it adds, even though on principal alone I feel like every call should be correct regardless of how long it takes.

You didn't bring it up, but the home plate collisions issue is a bit more contentious. Obviously, a lot of players aren't too wild about the idea, but I understand the point of view of trying to protect your players if you're a general manager or owner or whatever. Again, I'm a fan of the team Buster Posey is on, and man is our team way better when Posey is playing. I'd like to keep him safe, you know?

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Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:46 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
KWRoss wrote:
What are everyone's thoughts on Instant Replay being added for 2014? I'm all for it; getting calls right is important. Plus, I don't buy the "it'll make the games too long" logic. If you're a fan of a particular team, you're invested in the outcome of the game, including reversing potential bad calls that could cost you a game or even a series (I don't think I need to name the most obvious historical example here). So taking the extra time to get it right matters.


Given that I used to live in Baltimore, I think I know exactly what you're talking about, KW.


Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:52 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
I've been calling for an expansion of instant replay for some time now, so I for one am glad to see it. I think the most important thing is for the calls to be right. It sounds like they'll be displaying replays on scoreboards in ballparks this season too, for the first time in nearly 4 decades. About time on that one too.


Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:54 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
Gwaihir wrote:
KWRoss wrote:
What are everyone's thoughts on Instant Replay being added for 2014? I'm all for it; getting calls right is important. Plus, I don't buy the "it'll make the games too long" logic. If you're a fan of a particular team, you're invested in the outcome of the game, including reversing potential bad calls that could cost you a game or even a series (I don't think I need to name the most obvious historical example here). So taking the extra time to get it right matters.


Given that I used to live in Baltimore, I think I know exactly what you're talking about, KW.


I was actually referring to Game 6 of the 1985 World Series, but I assume you meant.....

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Jeffrey Maier :evil:


Now I'm sad. Don't forget that I also like the Cubs, and, well..... let's just not get into that.

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Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:20 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
Yup. Friggin' Jeter!


Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:12 am
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
KWRoss wrote:
Gwaihir wrote:
KWRoss wrote:
What are everyone's thoughts on Instant Replay being added for 2014? I'm all for it; getting calls right is important. Plus, I don't buy the "it'll make the games too long" logic. If you're a fan of a particular team, you're invested in the outcome of the game, including reversing potential bad calls that could cost you a game or even a series (I don't think I need to name the most obvious historical example here). So taking the extra time to get it right matters.


Given that I used to live in Baltimore, I think I know exactly what you're talking about, KW.


I was actually referring to Game 6 of the 1985 World Series, but I assume you meant.....

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Jeffrey Maier :evil:


Now I'm sad. Don't forget that I also like the Cubs, and, well..... let's just not get into that.


DON'T BLAME BARTMAN

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Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:22 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
I'm all for getting the calls right, but I have little faith that they'll get the calls right even with instant replay, so I'm not really all that in favor of it.


Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:24 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
At the very least, I'm sure Armando Galarraga would have a perfect game if instant replay were allowed. Even the umpire who missed the call initially admitted he blew it (and it's one example as to why Jim Joyce is an ump I like), and you know for damn sure that call would've been challenged.


Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:40 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/greg-maddux-goes-hall-fame-without-logo-braves-201038662--mlb.html

This sure was nice of him. He played nearly equal seasons with the Braves and Cubs, so this makes a lot of sense.

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Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:11 pm
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Post Re: So I think it's about time we had a baseball thread...
KWRoss wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/greg-maddux-goes-hall-fame-without-logo-braves-201038662--mlb.html

This sure was nice of him. He played nearly equal seasons with the Braves and Cubs, so this makes a lot of sense.

That was nice of him. If he picked the Braves for his cap, most people wouldn't have cared that much. He enjoyed most of his success there, but he had several great years in Chicago, too. Classy fellow.

I miss baseball.

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Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:33 pm
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