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Obligatory Obamacare thread 
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
Fair enough.

1. I think the ACA is a crappy law, but for different reasons. The United States spends more money on health care than any other industrialized nation, but we have some of the worst health care in the industrialized world. It's a national disgrace, and the ACA does nothing to change that.

2. The ACA sucks, but conservatives don't have any real better solutions. Anyone who has done their research should know that the ACA is practically a facsimile of a proposal written by the Heritage Foundation in the early 90s, and supported by Marxists such as Newt Gingrich, Dick Armey, and Bob Dole. So we've adopted the conservative solution, and it sucks. So what's Plan B? I know what it should be, and I suppose others do too.

3. If you think Barack Obama runs this country, you're sadly mistaken. Wall Street runs this country. Big Business, the oil lobby, the health care lobby, the agriculture lobby, the Israel lobby, the communications lobby...these people run the country. Obama is just the guy who takes all the heat, just like his predecessors W, Clinton, George H, Reagan and so on. The last time we had an executive that was more than a figurehead was maybe Nixon.

4. I don't air out my political views very much. I know what I think, and I'm not out to convince anyone of anything. I suspect, however, that the Tea Party thinks they know what they think, but in reality are being used...and once the bankers and lobbyists are finished with them, they'll be tossed aside like someone's skid-marked underwear. You're seeing this now. Sure, Republicans in Congress say they have your best interests in mind, but they don't have your best interests at heart any more than the Democrats have mine at heart. Roll that one around a bit; I, for one used to be a member of the Democratic Party. Not so much anymore.

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Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:46 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
Regarding point No. 2, what is "Plan B?"

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Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:50 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
Roastbeef-Funny how you're telling us to "grow up" yet you never pass up an opportunity to insult liberals even when it has absolutely no relation whatsoever to the topic at hand, oh yeah that's REAL "grown up" of you :roll:

As for the ACA, I certainly don't think it "sucks", I think it just needs some time to be fully ironed out. I'll admit I was dissapointed at how shaky the launch was and hoped it could've gone so much smoother, but i'm definitely not going to give up on it in spite of the problems.


Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:03 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
KWRoss wrote:
Regarding point No. 2, what is "Plan B?"


Single-payer health care, of course.

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Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:06 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
KWRoss wrote:
Regarding point No. 2, what is "Plan B?"


Single-payer health care, of course.

Is that the model used in countries like Canada?


Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:07 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
i barely know anything about american health care, but it blows my mind that you guys have to PAY to be healthy/well.


Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:42 am
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
Typical libs...make a joke out of everything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIyAp4CD_-c

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Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:46 am
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
Ken wrote:
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
Typical libs...make a joke out of everything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIyAp4CD_-c


You aren't even trying. At least reference Lloyd Christmas or something saying you can't triple stamp a double stamp.


Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:24 am
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
OtherBen wrote:
i barely know anything about american health care, but it blows my mind that you guys have to PAY to be healthy/well.


We have to pay to get fixed.

I have several friends in medical school, my brother is about to be: 4 years college, 4 years medical school, 3 years residency, 3 years fellowship. And the profession isn't getting more people. They deserve to get paid.

The people that have to PAY to be well are the ones that don't pay taxes. I go to the dentist twice a year and get my yearly checkup from my doctor. I pay that out of pocket, because it's just not worth it to claim on insurance. If I have major problems, I have insurance, but what really sucks are the people who go to the emergency room for common problems or just to get medicine.

That last problem is the biggest hiccup of the American healthcare conundrum. I'm not saying some of the persons don't need it, but the majority essentially ruin it for everybody (I mean people going to the ER for: common cold, back hurts, birth control, etc...my mom sees it every day).


Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:38 am
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
OtherBen wrote:
i barely know anything about american health care, but it blows my mind that you guys have to PAY to be healthy/well.

It blows my mind as well, but unfortunately in order for the U.S. to adopt that particular model, there would have to be a massive tax hike(a hell of a lot bigger then the tax increase for the ACA) which many lower-class citizens could not afford.


Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:52 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
Ken wrote:
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
Typical libs...make a joke out of everything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIyAp4CD_-c


You aren't even trying. At least reference Lloyd Christmas or something saying you can't triple stamp a double stamp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... L0QJ8#t=11

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Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:41 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
Vexer wrote:
OtherBen wrote:
i barely know anything about american health care, but it blows my mind that you guys have to PAY to be healthy/well.

It blows my mind as well, but unfortunately in order for the U.S. to adopt that particular model, there would have to be a massive tax hike(a hell of a lot bigger then the tax increase for the ACA) which many lower-class citizens could not afford.


Did nobody read anything I said? I wasn't talking trash or making things up...I literally listed facts. Typical lib...taking things out of context.


Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:42 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
Why don't you reference some obscure superman quote to challenge obamacare?


Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:50 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
Vexer wrote:
OtherBen wrote:
i barely know anything about american health care, but it blows my mind that you guys have to PAY to be healthy/well.

It blows my mind as well, but unfortunately in order for the U.S. to adopt that particular model, there would have to be a massive tax hike(a hell of a lot bigger then the tax increase for the ACA) which many lower-class citizens could not afford.


Did nobody read anything I said? I wasn't talking trash or making things up...I literally listed facts. Typical lib...taking things out of context.

Oh and I suppose you're not talking trash right now by pointlessly bashing liberals yet again? :roll: Typical con, blaming everyone else besides themselves. BTW i'm not strictly liberal or conservative, i'm a bit of both.


Last edited by Vexer on Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:06 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
Why don't you reference some obscure superman quote to challenge obamacare?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 8sC9w#t=59

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Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:36 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
Since I have a little bit of time, here's some more wisdom:

1. Nobody is arguing doctors should not be compensated for their services.

2. Everybody pays taxes. The idea that nobody pays taxes is a lie that Ronald Reagan helped spread with his made up stories about welfare queens and such. Do you go shopping? Then you probably pay sales taxes, unless you live in my state of New Hampshire. Get unemployment at any time? You've paid taxes on that. Social Security? Taxes, baby. Any other kind of government assistance? Yep, taxes. Everyone who works pays income tax, which includes the poor. And even undocumented immigrants pay taxes...primarily sales taxes, which is money they never see back. Anyone who thinks there are some people who don't pay taxes is delusional.

3. Our emergency room problem is mostly due to people unable to afford health insurance, and thus unable to afford to go to the doctor. So they go to the one place where they are guaranteed to be treated, since the law says you can't turn anyone away from an emergency room. I hope that the ACA is able to at least semi-correct this problem, but it remains to be seen.

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Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:02 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
Everybody pays taxes. The idea that nobody pays taxes is a lie that Ronald Reagan helped spread with his made up stories about welfare queens and such.


Ok...a tax is built into everything, but April 15th means different things to different people. Some people have to settle up more with uncle sam, where as others look forward to being able get that new Samsung.


Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:14 am
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
Everybody pays taxes. The idea that nobody pays taxes is a lie that Ronald Reagan helped spread with his made up stories about welfare queens and such.


Ok...a tax is built into everything, but April 15th means different things to different people. Some people have to settle up more with uncle sam, where as others look forward to being able get that new Samsung.

What are you talking about? :?


Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:20 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
Quote:
2. The ACA sucks, but conservatives don't have any real better solutions. Anyone who has done their research should know that the ACA is practically a facsimile of a proposal written by the Heritage Foundation in the early 90s, and supported by Marxists such as Newt Gingrich, Dick Armey, and Bob Dole. So we've adopted the conservative solution, and it sucks. So what's Plan B? I know what it should be, and I suppose others do too.


One of those "conservatives" lost in the primary presidential election when actual conservatives didn't find enough contrast between him and his democratic opponent to make it worth getting out to vote for him. The other two were caught up in some level of scandals both real and made up, and were driven out by their own party which was hopelessly trying to impress upon what's in it for me voters that values matter. None of them can garner enough support from actual conservatives to be of any real significant direct influence these days.

We do pay more for health care than the rest of the world, but we also are the place many people come from around the world for emergency health care when in dire need. Also the place where many of the most significant advances in medication occur.

We also pay more per pupil for K-12 education, but only conservatives seem interested in reforming that system for costs. Everyone else wants to add even more money. One might as well look at other countries where significantly higher percentages of GDP are spent on food or potable water and question why they aren't radically changing their systems to fix those problems. Or countries where housing and property are only available to wealthy while everyone else lives in cardboard and tin shanties. Those things are generally regarded as more immediate needs than preventative health care and are cheap and abundantly available in the U.S. Rising health care costs are a burden, but in my opinion adding more government can't fix any of the current problems except by lowering costs through lowering the overall standard of care. I strongly suspect that even when low cost preventative care is made practically available to the poorest among us through the redistribution of wealth, they will reject it and continue to utilize the strategy of going to the emergency room when needed. Who is going to turn them away? And what will become of the redistributed wealth?


Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:13 am
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
CasualDad wrote:
One of those "conservatives" lost in the primary presidential election when actual conservatives didn't find enough contrast between him and his democratic opponent to make it worth getting out to vote for him. The other two were caught up in some level of scandals both real and made up, and were driven out by their own party which was hopelessly trying to impress upon what's in it for me voters that values matter. None of them can garner enough support from actual conservatives to be of any real significant direct influence these days.

If I may ask, who did you favor out of all the candidates running for president? If party politics/strategic voting weren't a concern and you could have picked any of them as your ideal conservative candidate, who was it?

Romney, to me, seemed like the guy who got picked because the Republicans didn't want to waste one of their genuine superstars on an election that would have been really tough to win. Kind of like Kerry in 2004--basically a human placeholder while the party bided its time.

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Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:40 am
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