Discussion of movies and ReelThoughts topics

It is currently Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:53 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 102 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Ben Affleck says I'm Batman! 
Author Message
Critic
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:35 am
Posts: 7416
Location: Easton, MD
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
Shade2 wrote:
I don't have a real opinion here, I just like that the title of the thread makes it sound like Patrick is bragging.


Ha, nice. Quotation marks are valuable I suppose?

_________________
I'm lithe and fierce as a tiger


Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:54 pm
Profile
Second Unit Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:57 pm
Posts: 432
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
JamesKunz wrote:
Shade2 wrote:
I don't have a real opinion here, I just like that the title of the thread makes it sound like Patrick is bragging.


Ha, nice. Quotation marks are valuable I suppose?


The sad part is that it took me a minute to get why you thought it was me bragging.


Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:01 pm
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 2157
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
ilovemovies wrote:
Well, I don't read comic books so I suppose I should restate what I said to: it's THE definitive Batman story in terms of movies. And that's a statement I stand by. Now could I be wrong? Could their be a future Batman film that surpasses Christopher Nolan's work? Sure. But I don't see it happening. That's how much I love Nolan's Batman trilogy. At least not in my life time.

The reason "definitive" does not work here is down to the nature of the character. There is no definitive Batman story. He's a very loosely defined character with just a small handful of essential elements. This is why he can work in so many different styles and adaptations. There is no definitive Batman story because there is no definitive Batman.

There are some that do a better job of balancing the different styles into a sort of holistic version of the character than others. Those could, in a sense, be considered definitive, simply because they act as a Rosetta Stone for Batman through the ages. They're a synthesis of different versions that still manages to be internally consistent. The Nolan movies do not accomplish this. That doesn't make them bad, but it necessarily means that they're not definitive in terms of Batman. They're a take on Batman for our times and tastes--a planet in the Batman cosmology. Most great Batman stories are.

Ironically, if I were to choose a definitive Batman that didn't take the synthetic approach, it would be TV's Batman in the 1960s--basically the opposite approach of Nolan's treatment. This is the logical choice because of the enormous cultural impact that has affected the public's perception of Batman and comic books in general to this day. No version of Batman before or since has managed that.

I attended a talk given by Adam West just yesterday in which he acknowledged out that his contemporary public persona trades on the fact that everybody knows about his Batman, whether they've actually seen the show or not. For good or ill, he still has a large claim to the history of the character--perhaps larger than Keaton's or Bale's, which are both much fresher in the public's memory.

_________________
The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.


Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:03 pm
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:37 am
Posts: 1048
Location: Laurel, MD
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
I lean more toward ilovemovies on this one. I'm not a comic book fan. I have no desire whatsoever to read any. All I've got is the movies and the occasional TV cartoon when it comes to these characters. But as movies, I love the Dark Knight trilogy, and I think they're the best adaptation of Batman that I'm likely to see in my lifetime. I see nothing wrong with someone going out on a limb and predicting that it won't get any better than this.

Christopher Nolan is one of my favorite directors working today. The reason for that is that he brings the perfect blend of mainstream, genre entertainment and intelligent, art-house sensibilities. MEMENTO, THE DARK KNIGHT, and INCEPTION are my No. 1 films of their respective years. Your mileage may vary, of course. When it comes to making my personal wet-dream of a movie adaptation, the Metal Gear video game series, he's unquestionably my first choice to get behind the camera.

_________________
https://www.facebook.com/ken.rossman.5


Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:41 pm
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 2157
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
Here's a good movie curio, kind of off-topic, but kind of germane: footage of Heath Ledger's diary as he was preparing to do The Dark Knight. It's taken from a French TV show, which is why his dad is overdubbed, but YouTube subtitles it back into English.

_________________
The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.


Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:14 am
Profile
Auteur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pm
Posts: 3591
Location: Zion, IL
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
Meh, I think Nolan is good but overrated, I did not find Inception to be all that original or exciting, Memento just wasn't that compelling. I actually find Insomnia to be one of his best films. As far as superhero films go I personally think both Kick Ass films are far better then the Dark Knight trilogy.


Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:26 am
Profile
Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:44 pm
Posts: 1710
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
Quote:
they're the best adaptation of Batman that I'm likely to see in my lifetime. I see nothing wrong with someone going out on a limb and predicting that it won't get any better than this.


I'll tell you what's wrong with it. It's depressing and fatalistic. It's also unconvincing and sounds insincere. And the reason it sounds insincere is this: you have never been willing to admit one single flaw in any of Nolan's movies. Haven't you heard the expression: like someone for their strengths, love them for their weaknesses? Yet here you imply that you love Nolan because he's "perfect."

Quote:
the perfect blend of mainstream, genre entertainment and intelligent, art-house sensibilities


The perfect blend? The PERFECT blend. Perfect. Nothing is perfect. It's a nice fairy-tale, sure, but it ain't the way things work. Movies have strengths and weaknesses. Even masterpieces have flaws, sometimes major flaws, and NO movie encompasses everything that could be good about a movie. No person encompasses every thing that could be good about a person. That's the whole freakin point of the Plato's Cave analogy. But you're saying that Nolan climbed his way out of cave and shot the things that make the shadows as they really are. He didn't. No one can.


Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:38 am
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:04 am
Posts: 2469
Location: Lancashire, England.
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
My prediction is that Batman will return as a TV drama in the next 3 years.

One that will be on at 9pm. Will star an aspiring movie actor, who has half-suprisingly turned to TV, as Batman. And will basically try to incorporate as much of the many character arcs and storylines as possible.

In fact, I bet the pilot episode is sat on some exec's desk right now. I just hope it isn't another Spartacus: Blood and Sand, or whatever.

_________________
... because I'm a wild animal


Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:41 am
Profile
Assistant Second Unit Director

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:34 pm
Posts: 73
Location: Chiddingfold, Surrey, UK
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
I don't think Affleck is the wrong choice as an actor, but I agree he is perhaps too well known.

As for Bale, put me in the "okay" camp. His growly Batman voice was distracting. In many of his roles, I find his "acting" to be too visible, rather than him becoming the character. See The Fighter.

As for the villain: Lex Luther! Again? Pur-lease.


Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:56 am
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 2157
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
NotHughGrant wrote:
My prediction is that Batman will return as a TV drama in the next 3 years.

One that will be on at 9pm. Will star an aspiring movie actor, who has half-suprisingly turned to TV, as Batman. And will basically try to incorporate as much of the many character arcs and storylines as possible.

In fact, I bet the pilot episode is sat on some exec's desk right now. I just hope it isn't another Spartacus: Blood and Sand, or whatever.

There is currently a television series based on Green Arrow. To the best of my knowledge, the network originally wanted to use Batman and were turned down, so they went with the somewhat Batman-esque Green Arrow instead.

For those who don't know, Green Arrow started off as a Batman retread--a well-to-do character with an underground lair and a nocturnal crime fighting alter-ego. Instead of a bat gimmick, Green Arrow has more of a Robin Hood gimmick with a utility quiver full of gadget-equipped arrows. Obviously never as prominent as Batman, but they did start to give him more of an individualized personality in the '70s when they made him more of an outspoken left-wing character to play into the whole Robin Hood thing.

Alex wrote:
As for the villain: Lex Luther! Again? Pur-lease.

Has this actually been confirmed? Either way, they can't not do a Lex Luthor story. The character is nearly as important in the Superman cast as Lois Lane. You might as well complain about The Dark Knight for using the Joker.

_________________
The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.


Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:12 am
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:42 pm
Posts: 1418
Location: Bangkok
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
Jeeze, someone got off on just one word (or maybe that word coupled with another word "Nolan").

Call me insincere or whatever, but I agree with KWRoss. And I'm not seeing where he stated or implied in that post that he was not "willing to admit one single flaw in any of Nolan's movies". The word perfect that he uses, at least in my view, does not refer to the movies themselves, but how the director brought them to the screens.


Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:17 am
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:37 am
Posts: 1048
Location: Laurel, MD
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
Peng beat me to this already, but let me just reiterate: McGamesCook, you mad, bro? That's a lot of anger over the use of one inoffensive word.

Indeed I was referring to Nolan's style of moviemaking, which feels perfect to me. But everyone has different tastes and their own directors who work in lock-step with their own cinematic sensibilites. For Dustin Putman, its Sofia Copolla (witness his 4-star reviews of SOMEWHERE and THE BLING RING). For me, its Nolan. And I'm sure Scorsese ranks that high with others.

Consider what JB wrote in his Halftime Top 10 regarding BEFORE MIDNIGHT. He calls the emotions, narrative, and character interaction "perfect," and says that even though the Oscar hopefuls haven't arrived yet, he expects it to be No. 1 by year's end. I like the movie very much, but I won't go that far. But if it struck a chord that deeply within him, who am I to object?

And as for flaws in Nolan's movies, just take a look at THE PRESTIGE, which has a last-act twist that had me rolling my eyes. Everyone has their misfires.

_________________
https://www.facebook.com/ken.rossman.5


Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:24 am
Profile
Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:44 pm
Posts: 1710
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
Maybe if Nolan were the only working director attempting to blend mainstream appeal with arthouse intelligence, but he ain't the only one. Whether he's the best one is up to you, but he certainly isn't the one and only.

Snyder himself fits that description as well as Nolan, and has consistently done so from 300 onward. Yes, his style has its share of arthouse intelligence too. Not to mention Paul W.S. Anderson, the Crank dudes, Europacorp, Walter Hill, Brian De Palma Wayne Kramer, Brad Bird, Rupert Wyatt Edgar Wright, Josh Trank, Joseph Kahn, Steven Spielberg, Wong Kar Wai, and the Bond production team ever since Casino Royale. That's a lot of names, and none of those directors are perfect. None of them are necessarily genuises or masters, but they all have ambition, audacity, originality, interest, potential for future endeavors.

Not only that, but in an age when every movie is available for viewing at any time, many on bluray, there are dozens of directors who for the last 100 years mastered a blend of mainstream and arthouse tastes. They continue to be relevant now, even after death.

What I'm not understanding is why Nolanites continue to act as if he's the only working director in existence. And then you have to say he's the best Batman director that ever will exist EVER! Whether you really believe what you're saying or not, why is a statement like that necessary, except to provoke and bait me?

It doesn't matter really, because two years from now, we'll see a new Batman. And it's inevitable that some people (not just me) will prefer him to Christian Bale just as each Bond actor has his champions. There's a lot more to contemplate about cinema as an artform that goes beyond an individual's opinions. There's a lot more to be discovered about it. So much potential for critical books that haven't yet been written, for stories that haven't yet been told, for formalistic studies that haven't been undertaken yet. There's no such thing as a closed door. If there were, it wouldn't be an artform.


Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:36 pm
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:37 am
Posts: 1048
Location: Laurel, MD
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
MGamesCook wrote:
Maybe if Nolan were the only working director attempting to blend mainstream appeal with arthouse intelligence, but he ain't the only one. Whether he's the best one is up to you, but he certainly isn't the one and only.

Snyder himself fits that description as well as Nolan, and has consistently done so from 300 onward. Yes, his style has its share of arthouse intelligence too. Not to mention Paul W.S. Anderson, the Crank dudes, Europacorp, Walter Hill, Brian De Palma Wayne Kramer, Brad Bird, Rupert Wyatt Edgar Wright, Josh Trank, Joseph Kahn, Steven Spielberg, Wong Kar Wai, and the Bond production team ever since Casino Royale. That's a lot of names, and none of those directors are perfect. None of them are necessarily genuises or masters, but they all have ambition, audacity, originality, interest, potential for future endeavors.

Not only that, but in an age when every movie is available for viewing at any time, many on bluray, there are dozens of directors who for the last 100 years mastered a blend of mainstream and arthouse tastes. They continue to be relevant now, even after death.

What I'm not understanding is why Nolanites continue to act as if he's the only working director in existence. And then you have to say he's the best Batman director that ever will exist EVER! Whether you really believe what you're saying or not, why is a statement like that necessary, except to provoke and bait me?

It doesn't matter really, because two years from now, we'll see a new Batman. And it's inevitable that some people (not just me) will prefer him to Christian Bale just as each Bond actor has his champions. There's a lot more to contemplate about cinema as an artform that goes beyond an individual's opinions. There's a lot more to be discovered about it. So much potential for critical books that haven't yet been written, for stories that haven't yet been told, for formalistic studies that haven't been undertaken yet. There's no such thing as a closed door. If there were, it wouldn't be an artform.


Sorry man, I'm reading back through the thread and I'm struggling to find a spot where I or someone else said that Christopher Nolan is the only working director in existence. Or that I was deliberately trashing someone else's work. And as for baiting you? Really? I wasn't aware that this was such a sensitive topic on par with political views.

_________________
https://www.facebook.com/ken.rossman.5


Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:07 pm
Profile
Critic
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:35 am
Posts: 7416
Location: Easton, MD
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
Simon Pegg:

“I can totally see why people are upset about the tall, handsome, lantern-jawed, talented, dark-haired actor playing Bruce Wayne. I mean whoa, what a weird choice”

_________________
I'm lithe and fierce as a tiger


Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:24 pm
Profile
Cinematographer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:40 pm
Posts: 556
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
JamesKunz wrote:
Simon Pegg:

“I can totally see why people are upset about the tall, handsome, lantern-jawed, talented, dark-haired actor playing Bruce Wayne. I mean whoa, what a weird choice”

I hope Pegg was being facetious.

_________________
"Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain."


Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:08 am
Profile
Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:44 pm
Posts: 1710
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
I don't think it's unfair to equate movie talk with political talk. Both inevitably lead to heated arguments. One thing I wish people would keep in mind though: there's a difference between fighting for an underdog and fighting for something that already succeeded in a massive way. I mean, I think Pawn Shop Chronicles is the year's best movie so far. Under the right circumstances, you really could make a positive difference for that movie's promotion. But Nolan's Batman films don't need anymore promotion; they grossed a billion apiece and were critically acclaimed. And they don't really need defending anymore than Gone with the Wind does. Charities don't donate to the rich. And if his fans didn't act the way they do, I would have much less to say about it.

It's really just that claiming his Batman movies to be the best for all time, no matter how many more are made, is a disrespectful thing to say. It's puzzling to me that you don't understand why it's disrespectful. Because what about people who are fans of the character and place the character above any individual incarnation? What about the people who just didn't like those movies and are hoping for something that may offer a different appeal in the future? What about artists who see something different in Batman that Nolan didn't touch on? This thread is supposed to be about Affleck's future in the role, not re-asserting a promotion blurb which has already been said 10000000 times.


Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:10 am
Profile
Second Unit Director
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 1:43 pm
Posts: 372
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
I don't really think it is disrespectful. But in all honesty what's the big deal? I love the Dark Knight Trilogy. I love Christian Bale. I love Christopher Nolan. Do I think that someone will do Batman better? No. And I'd be comfortable in saying no one will do it better, ever. If a few years down the road I'm proven wrong I won't feel like it was disrespectful to assume no one could do it better. I'll just be excited about how rad the new batman movie is.

I love Christopher Nolan, clearly a lot more than you MGames. I like all the movies that he's directed. And I like him as a director more than all of the directors you listed that are blending mainstream and art house movies. That doesn't mean that I think he's the only director doing in. We must understand subjectivity a different way.

_________________
Sometimes I think I have felt everything I'm ever gonna feel, and from here on out I'm not gonna feel anything new. Just lesser versions of what I've already felt.


Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:30 am
Profile
Auteur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pm
Posts: 3591
Location: Zion, IL
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
Personally I believe Batman can and will be done better and I hope Snyder dosen't make the same mistakes that Nolan did.


Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:35 am
Profile
Assistant Second Unit Director

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:34 pm
Posts: 73
Location: Chiddingfold, Surrey, UK
Post Re: Ben Affleck says I'm Batman!
Ken wrote:
Has this actually been confirmed? Either way, they can't not do a Lex Luthor story. The character is nearly as important in the Superman cast as Lois Lane. You might as well complain about The Dark Knight for using the Joker.


Yes. It's going to be Bryan Cranston from Breaking Bad.

http://news.sky.com/story/1133594/bryan ... -in-sequel


Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:23 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 102 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forum/DivisionCore.
Translated by Xaphos © 2007, 2008, 2009 phpBB.fr