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The thread where we air out unpopular opinions 
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Jeff Wilder wrote:
Vexer wrote:
American Beauty is a pretentious piece of garbage that never should've won best picture.

Gladiator is Ridley Scott's worst film and another case where the best picture win is completely mystifying.


American Beauty I can say was a tad overpriased. On a list with FIght CLub and Magnolia I'd rank it third.

Gladiator was a good epic popcorn film. But nothing more. Best picture? I think not.


Gladiator wasn't even good popcorn. It was too dumb and overblown. The script is filled with unintentional howlers, including Joaquin Phoenix's superb imitation of a spoiled teenager.

I liked "American Beauty," but I thought Annette Bening had a tendency to get shrill.

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Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:42 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
moviemkr7 wrote:
Jeff Wilder wrote:
Vexer wrote:
American Beauty is a pretentious piece of garbage that never should've won best picture.

Gladiator is Ridley Scott's worst film and another case where the best picture win is completely mystifying.


American Beauty I can say was a tad overpriased. On a list with FIght CLub and Magnolia I'd rank it third.

Gladiator was a good epic popcorn film. But nothing more. Best picture? I think not.


Gladiator wasn't even good popcorn. It was too dumb and overblown. The script is filled with unintentional howlers, including Joaquin Phoenix's superb imitation of a spoiled teenager.

I liked "American Beauty," but I thought Annette Bening had a tendency to get shrill.


I've found Gladiator to get considerably better with repeated viewings. I didn't think much of it when I first saw it, but now I like it quite a bit. I'm still not sure it was Oscar-worthy though, but then again, how many recent winners were? And, for what it's worth, I think that Joaquin Phoenix' performance in it was superb.

As for American Beauty, I'm a fan. A perfect example of surreal suburban imagery. And regarding Annette Bening, although I think she went beyond that, I think her character was supposed to be a bit shrill.

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Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:44 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Count me in as being a fan of American Beauty and Gladiator. I think Gladiator would be better recieved today if it hadn't won best picture. It's an above average popcorn epic, but doen't come close to BP material.

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Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:38 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
thered47 wrote:
Count me in as being a fan of American Beauty and Gladiator. I think Gladiator would be better recieved today if it hadn't won best picture. It's an above average popcorn epic, but doen't come close to BP material.

IMO it would've been completely forgotten today had it not won the award, it's a dull as dishwater epic film with weak acting(hardly a fitting final film for Oliver Reed)uninvolving and poorly done battle scenes, uninteresting bland characters and a way too long running time.


Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:13 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Something on my mind after the general disappointment with Elysium. Bit of a rant:

From what I'm hearing, it sounds like people expected too much from the director of District 9. District 9 was entertaining enough, yes. But does anyone really think it was perfect? All that's happening is that the same flaws are showing up but people notice it more the second time. Exactly what happened with Dark Knight Rises and Bullet to the Head. Seriously, watch Bullet and 48 hours back to back. There's not a single thing anyone can come up with for 48 hours being the better film. Not one single objective criticism. Just nostalgia. Is Remar's villain more 3-dimensional than Momoa's? Is Nick Nolte really so much more pleasant than Stallone? I mean, what's the deal?

I think Rises is also a better film than The Dark Knight, better by far. But people began to see weaknesses in Nolan that they didn't see before and they didn't want to admit that they were there all along. What I saw in Rises, and in Steel, was Nolan realizing some of his weaknesses and coming to terms with them, something I once thought he wasn't capable of. It's like when you first start dating someone, you sometimes don't see their faults until later.

Every flaw people are finding with Elysium was in District 9. People just chose to ignore them last time. Casino Royale wasn't any closer to perfection than Skyfall. I'm not trying to read minds here, I'm just reading posts, both here and in several other forums and this is the vibe I'm getting. It's weird, but it's almost like people expect too much from these movies. I'm just going out on a limb to see if anyone else besides me is getting that feeling? I never really felt much frustration with Skyfall's critics, more just curiosity as to what they were expecting if not that? Same with Man of Steel. Steel may not have been exactly what people wanted, but by God it's certainly what people asked for after Singer's Returns. And we all know that District 9 wasn't perfect, it was enjoyable and kind of interesting but that's it. So I'm left wondering what people really expect.


Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:17 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Man, I was beginning to like that you can express yourself without insulting people with different opinions (from your post in that Ken reviewing TDKR and The Avengers thread. Seriously that was a great post expressing your distaste for both movies intelligently without looking down at anyone. I read that and gain insights instead of rolling my eyes as usual). I don't know why you insist on doing generalization on people, especially with absolutes like "won't admit" or "choose to ignore". (And I say this as someone who didn't even love District 9 that much)


Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:43 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
peng wrote:
Man, I was beginning to like that you can express yourself without insulting people with different opinions (from your post in that Ken reviewing TDKR and The Avengers thread. Seriously that was a great post expressing your distaste for both movies intelligently without looking down at anyone. I read that and gain insights instead of rolling my eyes as usual). I don't know why you insist on doing generalization on people, especially with absolutes like "won't admit" or "choose to ignore". (And I say this as someone who didn't even love District 9 that much)


And I thank you for criticizing me in the thread titled "unpopular opinions" ;) Though I'll point out that I'm not trying to insult anyone, continuing to imply as much doesn't make it the truth. If insulting someone's opinion is taken as insulting the person himself, doesn't that just mean the person takes his opinion too seriously in the first place? I'm not interested in opinions. I'm interested in objective truth about the movies which will still be around long after we're all dead.


Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:54 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
I'm not critizing you for your "unpopular opinions", just the way that you go expressing them by invalidating opposite opinions unfairly (Vexer has more different opinions from me than you, and I am not bothered by them). And maybe you and I have a different meaning of the word, but isn't saying that a person who likes movies you don't, and doesn't like movie you love, chooses to ignore or won't accept what you feel is the "truth" in your eyes, fairly insulting to their ability to look at a movie fairly? Lastly I kind of don't understand your "objective truth about movies" sentiment that pertains to movies criticisms and evaluation, which must always have a subjective tinge to them. So from that last sentence, suppose anyone loves TDK, they just ignore or don't accept "the objective truth"?


Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:48 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
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their ability to look at a movie fairly


The trouble is that it's a dead end. If everyone considers their own opinion to be the right one, it's like a million different roads veering off in separate directions, and you don't get very far. But if all roads collide to try and move toward something more specific and definitive, then the artform progresses and evolves. The way all roads collided from black and white into color, except I'm thinking in aesthetic terms rather than technical. Specific aesthetic progressions, which are only possible when a lot of like-minded filmmakers are working at the same time. The French New Wave being the most famous example of that, then again in the 70s when all the movie brats were pushing Hollywood toward a very specific aesthetic of realism and harsh realities, etc. The universal formalistic aesthetic may seem like a stretch, but it's really a natural thing. It happens by itself when a director sees a movie he loves and says, I want to make a movie like that. For instance, Hitchcock inspired to make Psycho after seeing Touch of Evil. Then Psycho's shock factor went a long way toward defining Hollywood up to now. There's a very linear pattern of influence in there. It's something which on some level should take precedence over subjective whims.

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they just ignore or don't accept "the objective truth"?


No. You're right, I mean you can have it both ways. It's not that subjective whims are a bad thing. It's just that they should be recognized for what they are. As being different from objective patterns.

For me, even if I had liked The Avengers, the concept is nothing new. I kind of think cinematic universes have always happened just by themselves. I think in a lot of ways, James Bond, Ethan Hunt, Jason Bourne, and John McClane all exist in the same universe, even if they never meet up. I think if Moore is Connery's successor, then Frank Martin has to be considered an indirect successor as well. Transporter 3 was in a sense the best Bond movie of 2008, premiering a week after Quantum. Taken 2 and Skyfall share the same location, but I can't remember any of the Avengers ever sharing the same location between films.

I'm also increasingly interested in objective vs. subjective material. Something that is what it is, good or bad. I think there can be a lot of emotional power in objectivity. Something that may not be dramatic in a theatrical or literary sense, but is so completely what it is that it becomes moving. Action is an easy target for that.

I can accept the fact that this sort of thing won't interest everyone, but what really interests me is the fact that it hasn't been much delved into yet.


Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:01 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Ah, I see. I kind of may get at what you're looking at now. But it's still very unlike how most derived joy or interest from movies, so I feel like you can share such view but should refrain from objectivity in relation to how other people review or enjoy movies, because it seemed to be on different plane of looking at things, and it will come off as you dismissing them. Interesting nonetheless; I'd have to ponder that a bit. (Also, that line of thought kinda explains why James Bond movies seem to be one of the few overlaps in your and many people's tastes.)


Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:20 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Call me boring, but... I loved Gladiator and loved American Beauty. I could easily watch both again today. When I was in high school and Gladiator was in theaters, my friends and I would often come out of one movie, then sneak into a theater showing Gladiator just to watch the final one-on-one between Maximus and Commodus. And as for American Beauty? Its merciless satire of the "white picket fence" nuclear family culture is still spot-on even today.

What's important is that I saw both movies BEFORE the Oscar hype. So my opinion was formed long ago and uncolored by the media blitz. And had I seen them around the time of their respective Oscar ceremonies? I still would've loved them. :D

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Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:16 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
peng wrote:
Ah, I see. I kind of may get at what you're looking at now. But it's still very unlike how most derived joy or interest from movies, so I feel like you can share such view but should refrain from objectivity in relation to how other people review or enjoy movies, because it seemed to be on different plane of looking at things, and it will come off as you dismissing them. Interesting nonetheless; I'd have to ponder that a bit. (Also, that line of thought kinda explains why James Bond movies seem to be one of the few overlaps in your and many people's tastes.)


I'm glad. Yeah I think it's an idea worth exploring a bit. I think Bond tends to be an overlap for a lot of people, which is partly why it's lasted so long. People seem to approach Bond films different from the way they look at other films.


Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:30 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Bond is also unlike most film characters (more like a superhero, really) in that he's proven to be surprisingly flexible. If you define a character simply enough, with just a few central characteristics, you can impose different times, different political interpretations, and even different genres on that character and the stories will still work.

Refuse to define James Bond other than "agent of the British Secret Service, sleeps around, goes anywhere and does any dirty job when other solutions fail" and you can squeeze all the stories out of him that you want. People's acceptance or rejection of the story will largely hinge on whether or not they've already gotten used to a previous interpretation.

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Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:42 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
KWRoss wrote:
Call me boring, but... I loved Gladiator and loved American Beauty. I could easily watch both again today. When I was in high school and Gladiator was in theaters, my friends and I would often come out of one movie, then sneak into a theater showing Gladiator just to watch the final one-on-one between Maximus and Commodus. And as for American Beauty? Its merciless satire of the "white picket fence" nuclear family culture is still spot-on even today.


I really love Gladiator, and it's highly rewatchable too. Compile my top 100 recently and it's somewhere in the lower 50. It's just a great drama-action film with sympathetic hero and really despicable villain. Oscar-worthy? I don't know and don't really care. Always get pumped up and have the urge to cheer when watched the film.

For American Beauty, I think it's solid film, but I watched it so long after its release that I think the satire gets diminished by some similar and many times better treatments in other films or medium, including Alan Ball's own Six Feet Under. (I'm also just discovering Mad Men, and that's a very effective, subtle take on the issue too, although maybe because it gets to develop that over many episodes)


Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:16 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Quote:
to watch the final one-on-one between Maximus and Commodus


Have you seen the final duel between Plummer and Boyd in the original? It's pretty stunning.

Quote:
But it's still very unlike how most derived joy or interest from movies


I have to go back and say you're wrong about this. My perspective is fairly common and widespread, it's just not in the cultural majority right now. I try to see a movie from the point of view of the creator, not the consumer. This isn't much of a reach, and I reserve the right to call people out for not doing so, especially in a thread intended specifically for airing out such things.


Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:32 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Vexer wrote:

Gladiator is Ridley Scott's worst film and another case where the best picture win is completely mystifying.


Funny you should say that since I think it's his best film by far. I think it's safe to say that most people consider Blade Runner and Alien to be his two best movies, but THOSE two I consider to be overrated. Alien more so than Blade Runner. Blade Runner has an amazing, obviously influential production design. But that is it's best asset. And Alien is kind of dull until the final 30 minutes. And even then it's just alright.

Gladiator is easily better than both of them.


Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:52 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
ilovemovies wrote:
Vexer wrote:

Gladiator is Ridley Scott's worst film and another case where the best picture win is completely mystifying.


Funny you should say that since I think it's his best film by far. I think it's safe to say that most people consider Blade Runner and Alien to be his two best movies, but THOSE two I consider to be overrated. Alien more so than Blade Runner. Blade Runner has an amazing, obviously influential production design. But that is it's best asset. And Alien is kind of dull until the final 30 minutes. And even then it's just alright.

Gladiator is easily better than both of them.

I find Alien a tad overrated, Blade Runner not so much, both of them are FAR better then Gladiator, which had terrible acting, boring action scenes, an overlong running time, tepid pacing, bland characters, etc.


Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:59 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Legend and Body of Lies are much worse than any of the Ridley Scott films mentioned.

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Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:17 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Syd Henderson wrote:
Legend and Body of Lies are much worse than any of the Ridley Scott films mentioned.

Legend was mediocre, Body Of Lies was an above average thriller.


Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:20 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Blade Runner is a bit overrated, but at least had a hypnotic effect on me the first time. Body of Lies is better than, say, Traitor or The Constant Gardener, but still pretty forgettable. My favorite Scott film is by far Matchstick Men, which despite its flaws, I found very interesting, and in broad strokes, believable.


Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:48 pm
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