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Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President 
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
KWRoss wrote:
Vexer wrote:
Sounds like the WSU has the same level of crazy as the Westboro Baptist Church.


Nobody has the same level as WBC. Picketing funerals? "Thank God for Dead Soldiers"? That's about as evil as it gets.

The sooner religion becomes marginalized to the point of near non-existence, the better off humanity will be. Actually, let me amend that: the sooner religion is completely stripped of any influence on secular policy-making, the better off humanity will be.

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Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:46 pm
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
I've heard tell that the main motive for WBC protests is to provoke people into attacking their members so that they can press charges and make money off the lawsuits. It would make sense, because how else is a group of shitheads like them going to get any funding?

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Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:46 pm
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
Jeff Wilder wrote:
The institutional racism that was prevalent in the post-civil war America and continued through the Jim Crow era may have been greatly diminished. But it seems that there's a large segment of white America that's not racist per se. But fears multiculturalism.

Why they fear it, I'm not sure. Do they fear that American culture itself will fade away? Are they caught up in an idealized view of the past.


I think it's more basic than that, I think they fear (which is 100% the correct word) Caucasians no longer being the majority of Americans. The last election for POTUS demonstrated that you have to win over more than older white people to win the office. The fear may be that they no longer control the country or at least not to the extent that they used to.

Ken, congratulations on fantastic posts! Not merely accurate and well-reasoned, but levelheaded and respectful. Love the phrase "vitamin circumstance" also.


Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:20 am
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
Jeff Wilder -


Quote:
The institutional racism that was prevalent in the post-civil war America and continued through the Jim Crow era may have been greatly diminished. But it seems that there's a large segment of white America that's not racist per se. But fears multiculturalism.

Why they fear it, I'm not sure. Do they fear that American culture itself will fade away? Are they caught up in an idealized view of the past?


I wanted to resist commenting on this topic again, but I will say this - they probably fear for the US's world status. Anglo-saxon culture made America the richest country in the world. If Anglo-saxon culture is diluted, so is your wealth, and power.

That isn't to say that people of all races can't become integrated into this culture - they 100% can - but the quicker this culture if pushed aside, the quicker American wealth and power diminishes.

This is an very un-PC thing to say, because we like to think that all cultures are equal. But the facts tell us differently. There are many things that Latino cultures do better. Their principles on extended family for a start. But at producing wealth, keeping the wheels of industry turning - it's the Europeans. It's the decendents of the Germans, the British and so on. Dilute this culture, and you will become poorer.

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:36 am
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
NotHughGrant wrote:
Jeff Wilder -


Quote:
The institutional racism that was prevalent in the post-civil war America and continued through the Jim Crow era may have been greatly diminished. But it seems that there's a large segment of white America that's not racist per se. But fears multiculturalism.

Why they fear it, I'm not sure. Do they fear that American culture itself will fade away? Are they caught up in an idealized view of the past?


I wanted to resist commenting on this topic again, but I will say this - they probably fear for the US's world status. Anglo-saxon culture made America the richest country in the world. If Anglo-saxon culture is diluted, so is your wealth, and power.

That isn't to say that people of all races can't become integrated into this culture - they 100% can - but the quicker this culture if pushed aside, the quicker American wealth and power diminishes.

This is an very un-PC thing to say, because we like to think that all cultures are equal. But the facts tell us differently. There are many things that Latino cultures do better. Their principles on extended family for a start. But at producing wealth, keeping the wheels of industry turning - it's the Europeans. It's the decendents of the Germans, the British and so on. Dilute this culture, and you will become poorer.


NotHughGrant, I'm not certain that I understand you correctly, so apologies if it shouldn't be the case: If you're meaning to say that White Anglo-Saxon Protestants (what else would you mean with "Anglo Saxon culture") are responsible and capable of creating prosperity and all others are not, you are making a racist statement - and an incredibly stupid one at that or how do you explain that, relatively to the U.S. and Western European countries, China has enjoyed a prolonged growth in wealth and power in the past two decades? (P.S.: It has nothing to do with the superiority of Chinese culture over European cultures.)


Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:13 am
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
Unke wrote:
China has enjoyed a prolonged growth in wealth and power in the past two decades? (P.S.: It has nothing to do with the superiority of Chinese culture over European cultures.)


I think that using China as a bellweather of "growth of wealth and power" is a bit premature after only 2 decades (as you posit). A vast majority of people living in China do so at a standard of living level well below that of the average citizen in the West. The Chinese rise to "wealth and power" has been enabled by a confluence of an overabundance of low-wage workers and relaxed environmental and safety policies. While they are very good at churning out low cost products by the metric tonne, they are still nowhere near the West when it comes to innovation. In the context of this thread, I do not link that shortcoming to race but moreso to environment. Communism and state run economies will rarely, if ever, allow for as much individual expression and contribution (and by extension innovation) as would a society based on democratic principles and free market theory.


Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:10 am
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
Unke wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
Jeff Wilder -


Quote:
The institutional racism that was prevalent in the post-civil war America and continued through the Jim Crow era may have been greatly diminished. But it seems that there's a large segment of white America that's not racist per se. But fears multiculturalism.

Why they fear it, I'm not sure. Do they fear that American culture itself will fade away? Are they caught up in an idealized view of the past?


I wanted to resist commenting on this topic again, but I will say this - they probably fear for the US's world status. Anglo-saxon culture made America the richest country in the world. If Anglo-saxon culture is diluted, so is your wealth, and power.

That isn't to say that people of all races can't become integrated into this culture - they 100% can - but the quicker this culture if pushed aside, the quicker American wealth and power diminishes.

This is an very un-PC thing to say, because we like to think that all cultures are equal. But the facts tell us differently. There are many things that Latino cultures do better. Their principles on extended family for a start. But at producing wealth, keeping the wheels of industry turning - it's the Europeans. It's the decendents of the Germans, the British and so on. Dilute this culture, and you will become poorer.


NotHughGrant, I'm not certain that I understand you correctly, so apologies if it shouldn't be the case: If you're meaning to say that White Anglo-Saxon Protestants (what else would you mean with "Anglo Saxon culture") are responsible and capable of creating prosperity and all others are not, you are making a racist statement - and an incredibly stupid one at that or how do you explain that, relatively to the U.S. and Western European countries, China has enjoyed a prolonged growth in wealth and power in the past two decades? (P.S.: It has nothing to do with the superiority of Chinese culture over European cultures.)


Firstly, China is still a very poor country, per capita. Its wealth is an aggregate measure it owes to the size of its population. You really don't want to live like the average Chinese person. I'll tell you that for nothing.

Secondly, my statement is not racist. It's a reflection of demographic-economic data. Europeans (and Jews) in America create the bulk of the wealth (albeit with increasing help from the cream of Asia in fields like technology). Now if you want to argue that economic reality is un-PC, then be my guest. It won't help your argument among adults.

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Last edited by NotHughGrant on Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:39 am
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
NotHughGrant wrote:
JI wanted to resist commenting on this topic again, but I will say this - they probably fear for the US's world status. Anglo-saxon culture made America the richest country in the world. If Anglo-saxon culture is diluted, so is your wealth, and power.

That isn't to say that people of all races can't become integrated into this culture - they 100% can - but the quicker this culture if pushed aside, the quicker American wealth and power diminishes.

This is an very un-PC thing to say, because we like to think that all cultures are equal. But the facts tell us differently. There are many things that Latino cultures do better. Their principles on extended family for a start. But at producing wealth, keeping the wheels of industry turning - it's the Europeans. It's the decendents of the Germans, the British and so on. Dilute this culture, and you will become poorer.

This is one of the most ignorant excuses for a statement that's ever been posted here. Ever. My respect level for you as a human being has dropped considerably. You should probably get more of an education to overcome the "small man" syndrome that likely prompted you to say something so utterly stupid.

To Johnny: China will become the most powerful economy in the world once they've finished shaking off the last remnants of their communist system. They have one of the biggest markets and a wealth of untapped resources within their borders. They also don't spend nearly the kind of money on their defense budget as the U.S. as a drain on their growth.

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:39 am
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
If it's such a poor statement - then please debate it.

You should have no issue doing this.


Quote:
To Johnny: China will become the most powerful economy in the world once they've finished shaking off the last remnants of their communist system


And become more like us.

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:41 am
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
NotHughGrant wrote:
If it's such a poor statement - then please debate it.

You should have no issue doing this.


Quote:
To Johnny: China will become the most powerful economy in the world once they've finished shaking off the last remnants of their communist system


And become more like us.

You made an overreaching statement that Anglo-Saxon cultures (which the U.S. isn't, by the way) are necessary to drive industry. That doesn't account somehow for China having a GDP that is larger than Germany and the U.K. (the home of the Anglo-Saxon peoples) together, or for Japan and India having GDP's that are nearly as large as those 2 nations combined. I'm sure you also realize that France and Italy aren't made up of Anglo-Saxon descended peoples, right? They also have GDP's that are right up there in the top 10 in the world. It's amazing what you can prevent your mouth from saying when you keep your brain attached to it.

Lastly, what the fuck does "more like us" mean? You are better simply because you happened to be born a white man in the U.K.? Really? You really are an ignorant cunt, you know that?

P.S.: While I know there are still racists in the U.K., I still find it disappointing when I actually run into one. The U.K. has higher standards of education than the U.S., so one should expect to find less of this kind of fucking ignorance there. You sure you're not an American expatriate living there?

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:48 am
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
Quote:
You made an overreaching statement that Anglo-Saxon cultures (which the U.S. isn't, by the way) are necessary to drive industry. That doesn't account somehow for China having a GDP that is larger than Germany and the U.K. (the home of the Anglo-Saxon peoples) together, or for Japan and India having GDP's that are nearly as large as those 2 nations combined. I'm sure you also realize that France and Italy aren't made up of Anglo-Saxon descended peoples, right? They also have GDP's that are right up there in the top 10 in the world. It's amazing what you can prevent your mouth from saying when you keep your brain attached to it.



Firstly, Son, GDP is a nonsense measurement. China's population is something in the region of 1.3 Billion. The UK's is about 60 million, and Germany's 80. To put this into the pre-school terms your mind clearly requires - China's population is about 15 times that of Germany. If its GDP wasn't higher, they'd still be living in caves and hunting Mammoths. What counts is per-capita wealth. By this measurement both China and India are both very poor countries.

I agree with you on Japan though. A great nation.

Quote:
Lastly, what the fuck does "more like us" mean? You are better simply because you happened to be born a white man in the U.K.? Really? You really are an ignorant cunt, you know that?


"More like us means" an economic system based on a degree of freedom and backed up by the rule of law.

So calm down, sweety pie

Quote:
P.S.: While I know there are still racists in the U.K., I still find it disappointing when I actually run into one. The U.K. has higher standards of education than the U.S., so one should expect to find less of this kind of fucking ignorance there. You sure you're not an American expatriate living there?


Grow up. In fact, dont. Your argument captures the problem with debating liberals perfectly.

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:00 am
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
NotHughGrant wrote:
"More like us means" an economic system based on a degree of freedom and backed up by the rule of law.

So calm down, sweety pie

Being spoken to with condescension by a racist is much like being talked down to by a 10-year-old. You know it's meant to be insulting, but you just can't take it seriously because you know that there's nothing intelligent to back it up.

As for your first statement: so you want to be like the Chinese, Japanese, and Indians, then? Well, why didn't you say so?

NotHughGrant wrote:
Quote:
P.S.: While I know there are still racists in the U.K., I still find it disappointing when I actually run into one. The U.K. has higher standards of education than the U.S., so one should expect to find less of this kind of fucking ignorance there. You sure you're not an American expatriate living there?


Grow up

You have no idea what the word "maturity" means, among other gaps in your knowledge base. Serious question: are you a supporter of the British National Party?

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:07 am
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
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Being spoken to with condescension by a racist is much like being talked down to by a 10-year-old. You know it's meant to be insulting, but you just can't take it seriously because you know that there's nothing intelligent to back it up.


And yet you can't debate or disprove anything I've said.

Quote:
As for your first statement: so you want to be like the Chinese, Japanese, and Indians, then? Well, why didn't you say so?


This doesn't make any sense. I said Japan is a great nation, because it is so well developed per capita. China and India are not so well developed per capita, hence less great economically.

And no, I don't support the BNP. But thanks for your hysterical concerns.

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:10 am
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
NotHughGrant wrote:
Firstly, Son, GDP is a nonsense measurement. China's population is something in the region of 1.3 Billion. The UK's is about 60 million, and Germany's 80. To put this into the pre-school terms your mind clearly requires - China's population is about 15 times that of Germany. If its GDP wasn't higher, they'd still be living in caves and hunting Mammoths. What counts is per-capita wealth. By this measurement both China and India are both very poor countries.

I agree with you on Japan though. A great nation.[/url]

Per-capita GDP is another indicator, true, but how many Brits and Germans live below the poverty line in their respective nations? A nation being wealthy doesn't automatically mean that every single one of its citizens lives in luxury. China has a huge untapped potential for economic growth beyond the amount they've already shown- the only thing holding them back is their governmental system.

If your statement was meant to only refer to per-capita GDP, then you're STILL wrong, as the UK and Germany aren't in the top 10 in the world in that category. Seriously, get some more knowledge, think about what you'd like to say, then once you realize that you're wrong, you can keep yourself from looking like an ignorant racist.


NotHughGrant wrote:
In fact, dont. Your argument captures the problem with debating liberals perfectly.

If you're referring to the "problem" that liberals tend to be better-educated than conservatives, then perhaps you may have a point. However, believe it or not, I happen to be conservative in many ways myself, particularly when it comes to crime, where I am a supporter of the death penalty in certain cases.

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Last edited by Ragnarok73 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:17 am, edited 2 times in total.



Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:15 am
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
NotHughGrant wrote:
Quote:
Being spoken to with condescension by a racist is much like being talked down to by a 10-year-old. You know it's meant to be insulting, but you just can't take it seriously because you know that there's nothing intelligent to back it up.


And yet you can't debate or disprove anything I've said.

Yes, I did. You're just ignoring it in favor of committing fallacies, like moving the goalposts ("I was talking about *Per-capita GDP*!").

NotHughGrant wrote:
Quote:
As for your first statement: so you want to be like the Chinese, Japanese, and Indians, then? Well, why didn't you say so?


This doesn't make any sense. I said Japan is a great nation, because it is so well developed per capita. China and India are not so well developed per capita, hence less great economically.

And no, I don't support the BNP. But thanks for your hysterical concerns.

That question was meant to be rhetorical, as you are saying the same sort of ignorant things that they do.

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:16 am
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
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Per-capita GDP is another indicator, true, but how many Brits and Germans live below the poverty line in their respective nations? A nation being wealthy doesn't automatically mean that every single one of its citizens lives in luxury.


The poverty line is developed nations is an arbitrary line drawn up by academics. It doesn’t compare remotely to poverty in China and India.

Quote:
China has a huge untapped potential for economic growth beyond the amount they've already shown- the only thing holding them back is their governmental system.


A bottomless pit of slave labour is what China has. Although, there are contradictions and problems with having such a poorly educated workforce. A lack of internal markets for one. Which is why they keep their currency so low.

Quote:
If your statement was meant to only refer to per-capita GDP, then you're STILL wrong, as the UK and Germany aren't in the top 10 in the world in that category. Seriously, get some more knowledge, think about what you'd like to say, then once you realize that you're wrong, you can keep yourself from looking like an ignorant racist.


The top 10 nations in that list are either European, former European colonies, or oil rich nations. China rank 92 by the way!

And this doesn't change the fact that in America, it's Europeans who create the bulk of the wealth.

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Last edited by NotHughGrant on Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:25 am
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
Quote:
Yes, I did. You're just ignoring it in favor of committing fallacies, like moving the goalposts ("I was talking about *Per-capita GDP*!").


So you're saying that China has a higher per-capita GDP than the UK or Germany?

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:27 am
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
Ragnarok73 wrote:
To Johnny: China will become the most powerful economy in the world once they've finished shaking off the last remnants of their communist system. They have one of the biggest markets and a wealth of untapped resources within their borders. They also don't spend nearly the kind of money on their defense budget as the U.S. as a drain on their growth.


If you are going to erroneously peg military spending to economic strength as though the former will stifle the latter (i.e. the US spends the most on the military in the world AND has the world's strongest economy), then I guess that China WON'T ascend to the economic zenith you are predicting as evidenced by this chart. Their military spending will stifle their economy if it continues at its current growth rate.


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Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:36 am
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
NotHughGrant wrote:
Quote:
Yes, I did. You're just ignoring it in favor of committing fallacies, like moving the goalposts ("I was talking about *Per-capita GDP*!").


So you're saying that China has a higher per-capita GDP than the UK or Germany?

Nope, but that wasn't what you were talking about with your original statement. You said that Anglo-Saxons keep the wheels of industry turning and that as you dilute that base, it weakens. You were utterly wrong. Admit it, and move on. Right now, I imagine that many fellow Brits are looking at what you posted and are feeling ashamed that they have to admit to sharing a nationality with you. Right now, I'm ashamed at having to admit that I share a species with you. Just stop, alright?

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Last edited by Ragnarok73 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:06 pm
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Post Re: Travon Martin, Racial Tensions, and our President
Johnny Larue wrote:
Ragnarok73 wrote:
To Johnny: China will become the most powerful economy in the world once they've finished shaking off the last remnants of their communist system. They have one of the biggest markets and a wealth of untapped resources within their borders. They also don't spend nearly the kind of money on their defense budget as the U.S. as a drain on their growth.


If you are going to erroneously peg military spending to economic strength as though the former will stifle the latter (i.e. the US spends the most on the military in the world AND has the world's strongest economy), then I guess that China WON'T ascend to the economic zenith you are predicting as evidenced by this chart. Their military spending will stifle their economy if it continues at its current growth rate.

That's a big "if", considering that the U.S. defense spending goes into the TRILLIONS, my friend. You'd be amazed at how much can be done domestically if your country isn't spending a mint on its military.

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:08 pm
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