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Last Movie You Watched 
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
I don't think it's necessarily comic book fans. They might get hung up about stuff in the movie, but it tends to be weirdly specific stuff.

There are three audiences at work: people who appreciate the character driven stuff, comic book fans, and mainstream viewers. While there is overlap in each of those groups, the last category is overwhelmingly responsible for the success or failure of a movie.

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Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:42 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Well.... if you count casual comic book fans, you'd probably find anything outside the overlap between mainstream viewers who go to see films based on comic books, and comic book fans, to be negligible, I think. What I'm saying is that most of your tickets being sold to people who have purchased at least a few comic books and whatever friends / sidnificant others they drag with them.

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Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:54 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Well, that and the people who bought into the marketing.

You can't say no to Superman when he's in your Happy Meal. Just saying.

I also just noticed that in your sig, "Queeering" has three e's instead of the traditional two.

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:24 am
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Well, that's the last time I let Louis Lane write my signature for me...

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:38 am
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
thered47 wrote:
Hulk Ang Lee version

After having recently watched Superman Returns, all I'm going to say is that I really, reallly wish that comic book fans would stop reacting so negatively to thoughtful, character driven super hero tales and going gaga over mediocre action driven crap like the Avengers. Actually, I don't think Avengers was that bad, but I would gladly trade a dozen movies like the Avengers for something as half as thoughtful and well made as Hulk or Superman Returns.

I've got no problem with character-driven superhero films, but Hulk was just the wrong character to base that kind of story around, it worked well with Wolverine because of how well developed of a character he is. Let's face it, Hulk isn't exactly known for his deep characterization, so that's the main reason why the drama in that film didn't work for me at all, it felt like Lee was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I just did not find it compelling in the least, Nolte's performance was mediocre, and the CGI was really poorly done for the most part. Incredible Hulk was a far superior effort IMO.


Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:18 am
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
thered47 wrote:
Hulk Ang Lee version
After having recently watched Superman Returns, all I'm going to say is that I really, reallly wish that comic book fans would stop reacting so negatively to thoughtful, character driven super hero tales and going gaga over mediocre action driven crap like the Avengers. Actually, I don't think Avengers was that bad, but I would gladly trade a dozen movies like the Avengers for something as half as thoughtful and well made as Hulk or Superman Returns.

I, for one, 100% agree with this sentiment. Maybe I'm just getting too old and cynical :roll: , but The Avengers was just kinda "meh" for me...


Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:31 am
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
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After having recently watched Superman Returns, all I'm going to say is that I really, reallly wish that comic book fans would stop reacting so negatively to thoughtful, character driven super hero tales and going gaga over mediocre action driven crap like the Avengers. Actually, I don't think Avengers was that bad, but I would gladly trade a dozen movies like the Avengers for something as half as thoughtful and well made as Hulk or Superman Returns.


AMEN! :D My 12-year old self was very entertained, in fact riveted by Hulk. I thought it was good summer fun. None of it was exactly moving as drama, but it felt rich and satisfying. But I agree that Hulk doesn't quite lend himself to this sort of thing. But Superman does. I still like Superman Returns, even after Man of Steel. I don't know, I really like Superman. There are a lot of reasons why he's the most cinematic superhero.

Machete

Got pulled into watching this and wasn't happy. All the funny parts in the Grindhouse trailer are unfunny in the feature. Danny Treo looks like he has no clue what's going on, which rubbed me the wrong way. Like some others, I find Steven Seagal to be a fairly unpleasant person. Despite purporting itself as a fun grindhouse movie, Machete tackles some very serious and touchy issues. Dream Act type issues provoke some serious politics. It doesn't have a place in this sort of movie. Jeff Fahey was very unpleasant as well. I liked Sin City and Planet Terror, so perhaps the badness of this movie came from Rodriguez's co-director. But this movie confirms something I've felt for a while now, which is that serious issues should never be presented in a silly manner and vice versa. Material should dictate tone and style.


Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:23 am
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Hulk and Superman Returns both kind of suffer from a split personality... and not the good "double life" kind that superhero flicks should have. Their filmmakers were obviously interested in the characters, but had an obligation to the people who were more interested in the mayhem. It's rough going, because if you're in the mood for one thing, you have to sit through the other thing in order to get to it--no matter which one is which.

But I will forever praise Lee and Singer for shooting for the moon, which filmmakers in this genre rarely do. Most of the time, they aim low, which leaves me not caring particularly much for whether or not they hit their target.

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:04 am
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
MGamesCook wrote:
Quote:
After having recently watched Superman Returns, all I'm going to say is that I really, reallly wish that comic book fans would stop reacting so negatively to thoughtful, character driven super hero tales and going gaga over mediocre action driven crap like the Avengers. Actually, I don't think Avengers was that bad, but I would gladly trade a dozen movies like the Avengers for something as half as thoughtful and well made as Hulk or Superman Returns.


AMEN! :D My 12-year old self was very entertained, in fact riveted by Hulk. I thought it was good summer fun. None of it was exactly moving as drama, but it felt rich and satisfying. But I agree that Hulk doesn't quite lend himself to this sort of thing. But Superman does. I still like Superman Returns, even after Man of Steel. I don't know, I really like Superman. There are a lot of reasons why he's the most cinematic superhero.

Machete

Got pulled into watching this and wasn't happy. All the funny parts in the Grindhouse trailer are unfunny in the feature. Danny Treo looks like he has no clue what's going on, which rubbed me the wrong way. Like some others, I find Steven Seagal to be a fairly unpleasant person. Despite purporting itself as a fun grindhouse movie, Machete tackles some very serious and touchy issues. Dream Act type issues provoke some serious politics. It doesn't have a place in this sort of movie. Jeff Fahey was very unpleasant as well. I liked Sin City and Planet Terror, so perhaps the badness of this movie came from Rodriguez's co-director. But this movie confirms something I've felt for a while now, which is that serious issues should never be presented in a silly manner and vice versa. Material should dictate tone and style.


My Father-in Law loved Machete.

And if you knew him, you'd know that isn't a compliment to the film.

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:19 am
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Vexer wrote:
thered47 wrote:
Hulk Ang Lee version

After having recently watched Superman Returns, all I'm going to say is that I really, reallly wish that comic book fans would stop reacting so negatively to thoughtful, character driven super hero tales and going gaga over mediocre action driven crap like the Avengers. Actually, I don't think Avengers was that bad, but I would gladly trade a dozen movies like the Avengers for something as half as thoughtful and well made as Hulk or Superman Returns.

I've got no problem with character-driven superhero films, but Hulk was just the wrong character to base that kind of story around, it worked well with Wolverine because of how well developed of a character he is. Let's face it, Hulk isn't exactly known for his deep characterization, so that's the main reason why the drama in that film didn't work for me at all, it felt like Lee was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I just did not find it compelling in the least, Nolte's performance was mediocre, and the CGI was really poorly done for the most part. Incredible Hulk was a far superior effort IMO.


Because I have recently posted a negative comment on ‘Superman returns’, I’d like to respond to thered47’s post. I’m afraid that I have to take issue with your generalised statement that comic book fans react negatively to thoughful, character driven superhero tales such as ‘Superman Returns’ or An Lee’s ‘Hulk’ while unduly praising action-driven superhero movies such as ‘The Avengers’.
I don’t think that it is true that comic book fans generally don’t like thoughtful, character-driven superhero movies. This isn’t the problem with either ‘Superman Returns’ or Ang Lee’s ‘Hulk’.
The problem with ‘Superman Returns’ is that the drama doesn’t fit the character. The movie focusses on a man, who has been absent from his lover for a long time and is presumed dead. Upon his return, he finds out that his wife has found a new lover while he was away and that she also has a child, which might well be his own and is now brought up by another father. This story has been told numerous times in the movies, mostly with the protagonist having gone to war or prison, and it is a story audiences can relate to very well if they can relate to the characters and believe in the reality of their situation. Now, the story of ‘Superman Returns’ isn’t about a former soldier or prisoner, but about Superman, an invulnerable alien from planet Krypton who wears a form-fitting blue suit with a big “S” on it and who can fly and shoot heat rays from his eyes. Say what you like about Superman, but realistic he is not. A dramatic, character-driven superhero story has to grow organically from the character and Superman just isn’t the soul-searching, conflicted type and not suitable for the story Bryan Singer tries to tell.
In the case of Ang Lee’s ’Hulk’, I disagree with Vexer and actually think that the character-driven drama fits the Hulk character very well. The Hulk is all about repressed emotions as well as the consequences and change of personality, when these suppressed emotions break out in a fit of anger. The movie’s drama is in line with these characteristics. The problem with the movie is that it fails when it comes to the action parts, because the CGI Hulk looks pretty bad and because they aren’t quite spectacular enough. Personally, I still think it’s a decent movie, but this is what comic book fans and many critics mostly objected to. And they are correct, because superheroes doing superheroics is the raison d’être for superhero movies and this is where movies of this genre have to deliver first and foremost. Saying otherwise is essentially the same as complaining that Westerns have too many horses, six shooters and people wearing cowboy hats in them.
Which leads me to ‘The Avengers’. This is a superhero movie, which is only interested in providing spectacular special effects, a lot of exciting action and a good dose of humour. In my opinion, it does all of this exceptionally well and it is great escapism. It doesn’t get bogged down by trying to include serious character-based conflicts and it doesn’t try to be dark or realistic at all. And it is more fun for all of this, although it doesn’t escape the confines of its genre.
To avoid any misunderstandings, I do appreciate it if a superhero movies does more than just showing superhero stuff and character-driven drama is certainly welcome, if it fits the character. However, if I want to watch a character-driven dramatic movie, I don’t think that the best place to look for it is a superhero movie.


Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:00 am
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Unke wrote:
In the case of Ang Lee’s ’Hulk’, I disagree with Vexer and actually think that the character-driven drama fits the Hulk character very well. The Hulk is all about repressed emotions as well as the consequences and change of personality, when these suppressed emotions break out in a fit of anger. The movie’s drama is in line with these characteristics. The problem with the movie is that it fails when it comes to the action parts, because the CGI Hulk looks pretty bad and because they aren’t quite spectacular enough. Personally, I still think it’s a decent movie, but this is what comic book fans and many critics mostly objected to. And they are correct, because superheroes doing superheroics is the raison d’être for superhero movies and this is where movies of this genre have to deliver first and foremost. Saying otherwise is essentially the same as complaining that Westerns have too many horses, six shooters and people wearing cowboy hats in them.
Which leads me to ‘The Avengers’. This is a superhero movie, which is only interested in providing spectacular special effects, a lot of exciting action and a good dose of humour. In my opinion, it does all of this exceptionally well and it is great escapism. It doesn’t get bogged down by trying to include serious character-based conflicts and it doesn’t try to be dark or realistic at all. And it is more fun for all of this, although it doesn’t escape the confines of its genre.


The Hulk was one movie that I admired. But couldn't bring myself to like all that much. I saw clearly what Lee was trying to do and I applaud the ambition. The problem is, trying to shoot for both an art film and a superhero film didn't quite work in that case. Most dedicated art film fans aren't likely to go to a Hulk movie and most of the superhero film fans I know who saw it complained that it was too talky. Also agreed on the special effects part: the Hulk simply looked too phony.

Character driven superhero films can and do work well as the Dark Knight trilogy proved. The Avengers is a well-done genre pic. No, it may not triumph over the genre and it may have been more than a tad overpraised. But it still works well.

MGamesCook wrote:
Machete

Got pulled into watching this and wasn't happy. All the funny parts in the Grindhouse trailer are unfunny in the feature. Danny Treo looks like he has no clue what's going on, which rubbed me the wrong way. Like some others, I find Steven Seagal to be a fairly unpleasant person. Despite purporting itself as a fun grindhouse movie, Machete tackles some very serious and touchy issues. Dream Act type issues provoke some serious politics. It doesn't have a place in this sort of movie. Jeff Fahey was very unpleasant as well. I liked Sin City and Planet Terror, so perhaps the badness of this movie came from Rodriguez's co-director. But this movie confirms something I've felt for a while now, which is that serious issues should never be presented in a silly manner and vice versa. Material should dictate tone and style.


I liked Machete overall although I agree the political elements didn't fit the material that well. They could have been integrated better than they were. Another complaint I had was that the showdown between Trejo and Seagal was too damn short. But I liked Machate overall. Way better than the similar The Expendables which came out around the same time.

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:46 am
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
The Trip (2010)

British comedian Steve Coogan plays Steve Coogan, a divorced A-to-B-list comedic actor who is asked by a local magazine to travel northern England for a week and taking in the sites and finer cusisine. When his American girlfriend (Margo Stiley) backs out due to work back in the States, Steve enlists fellow British entertainer Rob Brydon to join him on the journey. Brydon is happily married with a baby at home and is a bit less successful (professionally) than Coogan, and agrees to go along.

Over the 110 minute running time of the film we join Steve and Rob as they journey from small town to small town in rural England taking in the sites, eating at posh restaurants, having conversations about family, careers, aging and life in general for the hours spent in Steve's Land Rover and over meals. Much of the time spent is with the gentlemen trying to figure out who does the better Michael Caine, Sean Connery or Woody Allen impersonation and cracking each other up. It's kind of like a British verison of Sideways but without the self-desctructive tendencies and edginess.

There are some funny lines here and there and some fantastic scenery on display, but they could have easily trimmed about 30 minutes or more from the proceedings. The movie's message about middle age and success are pretty basic and not all that novel, and they take a long time putting it out there and then really going nowhere with it that is all that profound. Not a bad movie per se, but just one that takes a long time for what it delivers. 2.5/4.0

P.S. For whomever writes the abstracts for movie descriptions on Netflix needs to learn what the term "mockumentary" means. The Trip" was described as such but, apart from having the actors play "themselves", there is not much attempt to have a "documentary feel" or style in this production.


Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:56 am
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
I'm fond of Machete despite its faults, but I'd put those faults on Rodriguez himself. This is simply the exploitation kind of movie he wanted to make, which means we get one with warts all over the place. Besides, it has Michelle Rodriguez, who I like and really should be in better films.

I figured that The Trip may be one of those films that you have to be British to appreciate, and I'm not British. It's distilled from a TV series, which makes sense, since it has the feel of one of those that gets imported to PBS.

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:02 am
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
I enjoyed Machete. Yes, it exploits a serious issue for bloodshed...but isn't that what exploitation films are supposed to do? Besides, it features a scene where Machete rips out a guy's intestines and uses them to repel down the side of a building. That alone makes it worth the price of admission.

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:22 am
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Syd Henderson wrote:
I'm fond of Machete despite its faults, but I'd put those faults on Rodriguez himself. This is simply the exploitation kind of movie he wanted to make, which means we get one with warts all over the place. Besides, it has Michelle Rodriguez, who I like and really should be in better films.

I figured that The Trip may be one of those films that you have to be British to appreciate, and I'm not British. It's distilled from a TV series, which makes sense, since it has the feel of one of those that gets imported to PBS.


i've seen both the tv series and the film and i can say with certainty that it works much better as a tv show in 6 30 minute chunks. adored the tv show, was a bit bored by the film despite the material being the same.


Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:10 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
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Which leads me to ‘The Avengers’. This is a superhero movie, which is only interested in providing spectacular special effects, a lot of exciting action and a good dose of humour. In my opinion, it does all of this exceptionally well and it is great escapism. It doesn’t get bogged down by trying to include serious character-based conflicts and it doesn’t try to be dark or realistic at all.


My attempt to calm myself down about The Avengers:

It still manages to be extremely talky. Talkier than most serious movies, even. It's certainly bogged down in that sense, if not in seriousness or darkness.

I don't follow Joss Whedon, but I think Avengers was mostly a victim of Disneyfication, which has become rampant enough to have its own wikipedia page. The New York in Avengers doesn't look like New York, it looks like a theme park. By extension, none of the previously established characters seem to be themselves anymore than the guy in the costume at Disneyworld is really Mickey Mouse. For me, it led to an Invasion of the Body Snatchers effect. Iron Man was there, but it wasn't really Iron Man. Hulk was there, but he wasn't really the Hulk. The sets looked like sets instead of real places, you could tell that the lighting came from the indoors of a studio warehouse even when they were outside. I never got the sense that Joss Whedon was even involved in any of the action sequences. Most of the actors seemed like they didn't know what was going on; just like the costume dudes at theme parks.

I was really disturbed by the Year Zero mentality of The Avengers (being reminded of The Killing Fields). The Amazing Spider-Man confirmed it: this is year zero for Marvel, forget all that has come before. And I could just tell that it was because of Disney. I respect Abram's Star Trek to a certain degree because he knew that that mentality wasn't an option.

I agree that a popcorn movie shouldn't go out of its way to be serious, but sometimes seriousness just comes up by itself and can't be stopped. When half of an entire city is destroyed, a director has to deal with it on its own terms. The seriousness of an apocalypse is just something you can't get around, as was also demonstrated by War of the Worlds. I think a director is as much Illusionist as he is anything else. He can't really decide whether a movie is going to be serious or not; only the material itself can decide that. All the director can do is decide which material best suits his sensibility and vision, then immerse the viewer as best he can.


Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:26 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Unke wrote:
Say what you like about Superman, but realistic he is not. A dramatic, character-driven superhero story has to grow organically from the character and Superman just isn’t the soul-searching, conflicted type and not suitable for the story Bryan Singer tries to tell.

One: Superman may be a fantasy character, but this has nothing to do with whether or not such a character can be used in the service of character-driven drama. Realism depends on sticking to the terms of our own universe. Drama depends on sticking to the terms of the fictional universe, which may or may not be closely related to this one.

Two: Of course Superman as introspective and unsure of himself can be done. It has been done. A lot of times. I'm not sure why Superman gets treated like Happy Gilmore, as if it's just plain unacceptable that he might be used in more than one kind of story, but there is a long-running history of this character being interpreted in a wide variety of ways. That includes quiet and contemplative ones.

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:28 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
I Saw The Devil

A man's wife is murdered by a vicious serial killer. He tracks the killer down, and then proves to be even more of a monster. I didn't like this film. Say what you will, but it is basically a more polished version of Last House on the Left, which isn't a terribly good film either. Also, this film is way too long (nearly two and a half hours) for its subject. It might have been better had it been shortened.

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Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:15 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Crazy, Stupid, Love. (2011)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1570728/
From the outset, it was apparent this film desperately wanted to be something charming, feel-good and breezy akin to a Cameron Crowe production, but writer Dan Fogelman and directors(!) Glenn Ficarra and John Requa fail to deliver at every level. How A-listers like Steve Carell, Ryan Gosling and Julianne Moore got roped into this rubbish must have taken some doing and at a minimum large wads of cash. This film verges on a genre parody, parading out near every possible rom-com cliché in the book, resulting in an unfocussed shotgun approach almost none which hits the intended target. Everything feels artificial and forced - the story arcs, the relationships, the conflicts, and especially the dialogue - with the cherry on top of the absurd plot contrivances sold as mere coincidence. Watching this film was near excruciating for most of its 2 hr running time - how this rates 7.4/10 on imdb is a complete and utter mystery to me. I'm almost certain this will be a contender for the "worst film I saw in 2013", and I've seen Uwe Boll's Far Cry and all three Feast movies this year.
3/10.


Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:09 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
I Saw The Devil

A man's wife is murdered by a vicious serial killer. He tracks the killer down, and then proves to be even more of a monster. I didn't like this film. Say what you will, but it is basically a more polished version of Last House on the Left, which isn't a terribly good film either. Also, this film is way too long (nearly two and a half hours) for its subject. It might have been better had it been shortened.

Have you seen the remake of Last House, I thought it was far superior to the original. I liked I Saw The Devil, but I agree with you that it was definitely too long for it's own good.


Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:41 pm
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