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Unsure: liked or disliked 
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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
thered47 wrote:
Salo

I don't think it's really relevant whether one likes or dislikes this film, for the director obviously doesn't care if people like it and maybe even wants people to dislike it. In any case, while I'll admit that this makes some rather provocative and interesting thematic point, anything good about this film is offset by the fact it's virtually unwatchable in many places.

-Jeremy


My go-to answer for worst movie I've ever seen

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Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:56 am
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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
A Serbian Film-Most disturbing film i've ever seen, not sure whether that's a good or a bad thing.


Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:17 pm
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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
JamesKunz wrote:
thered47 wrote:
Salo

I don't think it's really relevant whether one likes or dislikes this film, for the director obviously doesn't care if people like it and maybe even wants people to dislike it. In any case, while I'll admit that this makes some rather provocative and interesting thematic point, anything good about this film is offset by the fact it's virtually unwatchable in many places.

-Jeremy


My go-to answer for worst movie I've ever seen


Just as a matter of curiosity, by what standards/criteria/qualities etc. are you using to label this as one of the worst films of all time? I ask, as someone who thinks that any film that exhibits some significant degree of ambition automatically disqualifies itself from consideration as one of the worst films of all time and Salo is certainly ambititious.

In fact now that I think about it, the films I feel the most conflicted about are ones that start wih high ambitions and then fail to rise up to the bar they set for themselves.
-Jeremy

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Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:38 pm
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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
thered47 wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
thered47 wrote:
Salo

I don't think it's really relevant whether one likes or dislikes this film, for the director obviously doesn't care if people like it and maybe even wants people to dislike it. In any case, while I'll admit that this makes some rather provocative and interesting thematic point, anything good about this film is offset by the fact it's virtually unwatchable in many places.

-Jeremy


My go-to answer for worst movie I've ever seen


Just as a matter of curiosity, by what standards/criteria/qualities etc. are you using to label this as one of the worst films of all time? I ask, as someone who thinks that any film that exhibits some significant degree of ambition automatically disqualifies itself from consideration as one of the worst films of all time and Salo is certainly ambititious.

In fact now that I think about it, the films I feel the most conflicted about are ones that start wih high ambitions and then fail to rise up to the bar they set for themselves.
-Jeremy


I see what you mean...it is a bit unfair to compare The Gingerdead Man 2 with Salo, isn't it? On the other hand, the former didn't make me feel worse about humanity

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Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:56 pm
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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
Which one would you rather watch? Forget about examining specific merits for a moment and consider the movies holistically.

I'm asking because I'm starting to reevaluate what I and others are really saying when they mean "good", "bad", "liked", "disliked", etc. I'm starting to think that they're really not defined at all, unless you bust them down to a criterion that is basic and universally understood--such as "Which one would you rather watch?"

By this definition, I think The Room is a better movie than Transformers. Which seems pretty accurate for me.

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Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:11 pm
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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
Ken wrote:
Which one would you rather watch? Forget about examining specific merits for a moment and consider the movies holistically.

I'm asking because I'm starting to reevaluate what I and others are really saying when they mean "good", "bad", "liked", "disliked", etc. I'm starting to think that they're really not defined at all, unless you bust them down to a criterion that is basic and universally understood--such as "Which one would you rather watch?"

By this definition, I think The Room is a better movie than Transformers. Which seems pretty accurate for me.


Your point is definitely valuable when it comes to things like The Room, but it was agonizing to watch both Salo and Gingerdead Man 2, even with the latter being only 60 minutes

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Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:13 pm
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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
JamesKunz wrote:
Ken wrote:
Which one would you rather watch? Forget about examining specific merits for a moment and consider the movies holistically.

I'm asking because I'm starting to reevaluate what I and others are really saying when they mean "good", "bad", "liked", "disliked", etc. I'm starting to think that they're really not defined at all, unless you bust them down to a criterion that is basic and universally understood--such as "Which one would you rather watch?"

By this definition, I think The Room is a better movie than Transformers. Which seems pretty accurate for me.


Your point is definitely valuable when it comes to things like The Room, but it was agonizing to watch both Salo and Gingerdead Man 2, even with the latter being only 60 minutes

Have you ever seen A Serbian Film? I could see you hating that one even more then Salo.


Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:23 pm
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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
Vexer wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
Ken wrote:
Which one would you rather watch? Forget about examining specific merits for a moment and consider the movies holistically.

I'm asking because I'm starting to reevaluate what I and others are really saying when they mean "good", "bad", "liked", "disliked", etc. I'm starting to think that they're really not defined at all, unless you bust them down to a criterion that is basic and universally understood--such as "Which one would you rather watch?"

By this definition, I think The Room is a better movie than Transformers. Which seems pretty accurate for me.


Your point is definitely valuable when it comes to things like The Room, but it was agonizing to watch both Salo and Gingerdead Man 2, even with the latter being only 60 minutes

Have you ever seen A Serbian Film? I could see you hating that one even more then Salo.


I read its Wikipedia article and that was more than enough for me.

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Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:46 pm
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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
JamesKunz wrote:
Vexer wrote:
Have you ever seen A Serbian Film? I could see you hating that one even more then Salo.


I read its Wikipedia article and that was more than enough for me.


Well, you guys got me curious, so....

6:00 pm est-- "Hmmm, I wonder about this? Most disturbing movie of all time, let's see here....."

6:03 pm est-- "OH MY GOD WHY DID I READ THAT?!?!?!?!?!?" *vomit*

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Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:04 pm
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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
KWRoss wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
Vexer wrote:
Have you ever seen A Serbian Film? I could see you hating that one even more then Salo.


I read its Wikipedia article and that was more than enough for me.


Well, you guys got me curious, so....

6:00 pm est-- "Hmmm, I wonder about this? Most disturbing movie of all time, let's see here....."

6:03 pm est-- "OH MY GOD WHY DID I READ THAT?!?!?!?!?!?" *vomit*


Same here. I got curious and read the wikipedia article. I left the web page somewhere in the middle of the "plot". Now I need to listen to some sweet music and watch pictures of beautiful landscapes to avoid any kind of thinking about what kind of people are walking on my planet.... Holy f*****!


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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
Vexer wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
Ken wrote:
Which one would you rather watch? Forget about examining specific merits for a moment and consider the movies holistically.

I'm asking because I'm starting to reevaluate what I and others are really saying when they mean "good", "bad", "liked", "disliked", etc. I'm starting to think that they're really not defined at all, unless you bust them down to a criterion that is basic and universally understood--such as "Which one would you rather watch?"

By this definition, I think The Room is a better movie than Transformers. Which seems pretty accurate for me.


Your point is definitely valuable when it comes to things like The Room, but it was agonizing to watch both Salo and Gingerdead Man 2, even with the latter being only 60 minutes

Have you ever seen A Serbian Film? I could see you hating that one even more then Salo.

Martyrs would definitely be in that same category. It's one of those films that just stays with you. And not in a good way.


Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:29 pm
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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
Martyrs started off pretty good, but the second half got a little too bizarre for my tastes.


Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:45 pm
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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
Baz Luhrmann's Great Gatsby fits here.

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Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:07 pm
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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
I have always been a defender of Salo. I do believe that Pasolini has a lot to say with the film, and I think it is very defensible on an intellectual level. However, I will freely concede that it is not a movie for all tastes, and most people probably won't want to put themselves in Paolini's mindset. But it is art, and who said art has to be pleasant?

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Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:59 pm
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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
I have always been a defender of Salo. I do believe that Pasolini has a lot to say with the film, and I think it is very defensible on an intellectual level. However, I will freely concede that it is not a movie for all tastes, and most people probably won't want to put themselves in Paolini's mindset. But it is art, and who said art has to be pleasant?


Art doesn't have to be pleasant, I grant you, but where you and I differ is that I don't think Pasolini has anything to say with the film at all. He took a text by the Maquis de Sade, who was a sicko and a nutjob (and I say that as someone who doesn't raise his eyebrows at almost any kind of sexual "deviance") and moved it to Fascist Italy without somehow using the text to comment on much of anything. It's the most base, prurient wallow through depravity and human misery, but all cloaked through insufferable pretension. "Look! It's art!" Fuck that film.

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Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:12 pm
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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
JamesKunz wrote:
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
I have always been a defender of Salo. I do believe that Pasolini has a lot to say with the film, and I think it is very defensible on an intellectual level. However, I will freely concede that it is not a movie for all tastes, and most people probably won't want to put themselves in Paolini's mindset. But it is art, and who said art has to be pleasant?


Art doesn't have to be pleasant, I grant you, but where you and I differ is that I don't think Pasolini has anything to say with the film at all. He took a text by the Maquis de Sade, who was a sicko and a nutjob (and I say that as someone who doesn't raise his eyebrows at almost any kind of sexual "deviance") and moved it to Fascist Italy without somehow using the text to comment on much of anything. It's the most base, prurient wallow through depravity and human misery, but all cloaked through insufferable pretension. "Look! It's art!" Fuck that film.


Pasolini moved it to fascist Italy for a purpose. Much of the film is a critique of Italian politics of the day and of capitalism. I think that in order to properly understand the film, it is essential to understand Pasolini's political leanings and his political activity. This does require a lot of intellectual legwork, as Pasolini refuses to meet the viewer halfway. But I stand firm in my belief that the film is completely defensible.

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Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:14 pm
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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
I have always been a defender of Salo. I do believe that Pasolini has a lot to say with the film, and I think it is very defensible on an intellectual level. However, I will freely concede that it is not a movie for all tastes, and most people probably won't want to put themselves in Paolini's mindset. But it is art, and who said art has to be pleasant?


Art doesn't have to be pleasant, I grant you, but where you and I differ is that I don't think Pasolini has anything to say with the film at all. He took a text by the Maquis de Sade, who was a sicko and a nutjob (and I say that as someone who doesn't raise his eyebrows at almost any kind of sexual "deviance") and moved it to Fascist Italy without somehow using the text to comment on much of anything. It's the most base, prurient wallow through depravity and human misery, but all cloaked through insufferable pretension. "Look! It's art!" Fuck that film.


Pasolini moved it to fascist Italy for a purpose. Much of the film is a critique of Italian politics of the day and of capitalism. I think that in order to properly understand the film, it is essential to understand Pasolini's political leanings and his political activity. This does require a lot of intellectual legwork, as Pasolini refuses to meet the viewer halfway. But I stand firm in my belief that the film is completely defensible.


I don't want to argue seriously in a case where I don't know the background as well as my opponent, but I know enough about Italian fascism to call bullshit (on Pasolini, not you). It's like when the director of A Serbian Film said "This is a diary of our own molestation by the Serbian government"

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Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:33 pm
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Post Re: Unsure: liked or disliked
Thought of another one:

Downloading Nancy - it's an incredibly screwed up movie, very dark and depressing but the acting is great and it's well made. So I wasn't sure if I liked it or not. I've come to a place where I admire it, but its not necessarily a movie I would want to revisit.


Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:49 pm
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