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The thread where we air out unpopular opinions 
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
JamesKunz wrote:
thered47 wrote:


Full Metal Jacket is grossly underrated though, much better than Apocalypse Now and almost as good as Platoon.


Ugh that terrible second half....if you think that shit's better than Apocalypse Now, I just want to give you a cookie to cheer you up from your sad life.


To me, it's split into three parts: The Paris Ilsand section, the early Vietnam part and the Tet/Sniper elelment. The first part is fantastic and the third on is pretty good (especially the Mickey Mouse march at the end). The second part has two good segments: the scene with teh hooker and the orders to change "Search and destroy" to "sweep and clear". If the interminable rest of the second act were cut out, then FMJ might be a serious contender/ As it si though both Platoon and Apocalypse Now are way better. I'd argue that even Hamburger Hill is more underrated and better than FMJ.

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Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:01 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
I've never understood the dislike of the second half of Full Metal Jacket. To me, it's just as good and powerful as the first half.

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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
JamesKunz wrote:
thered47 wrote:


Full Metal Jacket is grossly underrated though, much better than Apocalypse Now and almost as good as Platoon.


Ugh that terrible second half....if you think that shit's better than Apocalypse Now, I just want to give you a cookie to cheer you up from your sad life.


Full Metal Jacket undergoes a relatively minor shift in tone in it's second half. Apocalpyse Now becomes incomprehensible during it's last act and for reasons other than Marlon Brandos' muttering through his lines.
-Jeremy

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Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:44 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Thief12 wrote:
I've never understood the dislike of the second half of Full Metal Jacket. To me, it's just as good and powerful as the first half.

Well, it's Vincent D'Onofrio & R. Lee Ermey vs. Matthew Modine & Arliss Howard. That's why. :P


Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:28 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
thered47 wrote:
Apocalpyse Now becomes incomprehensible during it's last act and for reasons other than Marlon Brandos' muttering through his lines.
-Jeremy

It functions just fine (well, better than that) as a queasy mood piece, even though it does basically abandon narrative altogether.

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Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:46 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
thered47 wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
thered47 wrote:


Full Metal Jacket is grossly underrated though, much better than Apocalypse Now and almost as good as Platoon.


Ugh that terrible second half....if you think that shit's better than Apocalypse Now, I just want to give you a cookie to cheer you up from your sad life.


Full Metal Jacket undergoes a relatively minor shift in tone in it's second half. Apocalpyse Now becomes incomprehensible during it's last act and for reasons other than Marlon Brandos' muttering through his lines.
-Jeremy


I don't think Apocalypse Now becomes incomprehensible at all, and I'm a huge fan of narrative, plot-driven cinema. It's about a journey to hell, and I've always found Brando to be a very good devil waiting at the end of the river.

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Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:32 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
I'm halfway through Cleopatra, and "I'm bored as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

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Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:56 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
moviemkr7 wrote:
I'm halfway through Cleopatra, and "I'm bored as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

I'd hardly call that film (I assume you're referring to the Taylor/Burton version) a critically acclaimed classic; it's often cited as one of the most bloated epics of all time.


Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:19 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
H.I. McDonough wrote:
moviemkr7 wrote:
I'm halfway through Cleopatra, and "I'm bored as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

I'd hardly call that film (I assume you're referring to the Taylor/Burton version) a critically acclaimed classic; it's often cited as one of the most bloated epics of all time.


Yeah seriously. That, my friend, is a popular opinion.

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Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:22 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
moviemkr7 wrote:
I'm halfway through Cleopatra, and "I'm bored as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!"


Try Fall of the Roman Empire! Don't let Cleopatra discourage you.


Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:49 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Thief12 wrote:
I've never understood the dislike of the second half of Full Metal Jacket. To me, it's just as good and powerful as the first half.


I agree. I mean, it's not as electric or well-ordered as the first half, but it's not meant to be.

I believe the second half of the film is there to prove how futile even the most brutal training can be for armed conflict. The second half of the film falls apart - but in all the right and relevant ways.

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Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:23 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Scarface is a film for teenagers, not adults.

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Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:27 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
NotHughGrant wrote:
Scarface is a film for teenagers, not adults.


I half agree with you. But then I find Die Hard a film for pre-teens, and people love that one, so...

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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
NotHughGrant wrote:
Scarface is a film for teenagers, not adults.


As much as I love Scarface, i can't really disagree, It's nowehere near as deep as some people believe it is, aside from a couple scenes. In fact it never reaches higher than the level of a comic book.

I always found the later De Palma/Pacino collaboration Carlito's Way to be better. It had better developed characters, the over-the-top elements were toned down and De Palma had better control over the story's trajectory.

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Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:41 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
JamesKunz wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
Scarface is a film for teenagers, not adults.


I half agree with you. But then I find Die Hard a film for pre-teens, and people love that one, so...

Movies do have their intended audiences, sure... but hey, any movie is for you if you want to watch it.

Particularly two-dimensional heroic stories that function at a preteen level of "good and evil". Despite their simplicity, they often speak to the sense of adventure and imagination that never dies for some of us.

As long as they're any damn good, anyway.

Jeff Wilder wrote:
As much as I love Scarface, i can't really disagree, It's nowehere near as deep as some people believe it is, aside from a couple scenes. In fact it never reaches higher than the level of a comic book.

I've read comic books that far exceed Scarface's level. I've read comic books that exceed the level of most movies.

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Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:51 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
MGamesCook wrote:
moviemkr7 wrote:
I'm halfway through Cleopatra, and "I'm bored as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!"


Try Fall of the Roman Empire! Don't let Cleopatra discourage you.


Try the Cecil B. DeMille version of the story with Claudette Colbert. It's 100 minutes long and far more entertaining.

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Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:37 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
MGamesCook wrote:
moviemkr7 wrote:
I'm halfway through Cleopatra, and "I'm bored as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!"


Try Fall of the Roman Empire! Don't let Cleopatra discourage you.


If you’re bored by 'Cleopatra‘, you’re sure to find ‘The Fall of the Roman Empire’ extremely tedious. It certainly has its moments (some of them are excellent), but approx. 15 minutes of foreign dignitaries parading in their chariots in front of Alec Guiness’s Marcus Aurelius isn’t exactly riveting cinema. The histrionics of Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor are also more interesting than the utterly stiff Stephen Boyd and the apparently language-challenged Sophia Loren, who have absolutely no chemistry together.

Which leads me to my controversial opinion of today: ‘Cleopatra’ isn’t that bad. (Mind you, it is not a good movie.) It’s a mess, but an interesting one, because you can actually see how it was assembled from a lot more extravagantly shot footage (as is evident in Antonius speech at the Battle of Phillipi, which is abbreviated to a montage in the movie). Surprisingly, the movie is also historically quite accurate. And the whole Caesar-Antonius-Cleopatra story is very interesting anyway.

NotHughGrant wrote:
Thief12 wrote:
I've never understood the dislike of the second half of Full Metal Jacket. To me, it's just as good and powerful as the first half.


I agree. I mean, it's not as electric or well-ordered as the first half, but it's not meant to be.

I believe the second half of the film is there to prove how futile even the most brutal training can be for armed conflict. The second half of the film falls apart - but in all the right and relevant ways.


I agree that the second and third act of ‘Full Metal Jacket’ are unfairly maligned, although the first act the training sequence is indeed the best part of the movie. During the training sequence, the filmmaking is very orderly, the colours are muted and blues, dark green and grey dominate the colour palette. It is also paced relatively slowly. The music is primarily synthesizer-based soundtrack music. When the action shifts to Vietnam, the editing becomes more hectic, the scenes are more loosely connected and the colours are dominated by yellow and have a bleached look to them. The action is accompanied by 60ies bubblegum pop. With a filmmaker such as Stanley Kubrick at the helm, it is fair to assume that this is a deliberate choice and meant to contrast the discipline of the the training regime with the actual chaos and reality of armed guerilla conflict.


Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:48 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Jeff Wilder wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
Scarface is a film for teenagers, not adults.


As much as I love Scarface, i can't really disagree, It's nowehere near as deep as some people believe it is, aside from a couple scenes. In fact it never reaches higher than the level of a comic book.

I always found the later De Palma/Pacino collaboration Carlito's Way to be better. It had better developed characters, the over-the-top elements were toned down and De Palma had better control over the story's trajectory.



It hinted at a grown up commentary on the pitfalls of the respective Cuban and American systems ... but basically said "nah, forget that, pass me the chainsaw/gun/coke"

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Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:39 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Don't know if this has made it into this thread yet, but

Howard Hawks = insanely overrated.

I've thought a long time about how best to summarize my problem with Howard Hawks. What I managed to come up with is this:

I have a problem with a film whose entire quality reveals itself in the first five minutes. It makes it feel like the rest of it is on autopilot, and that description fits Hawks' career pretty well. There are never any surprises in his movies, and never really any twists. He has little or no sense of gravitas and drama, but that's probably why certain critics became obsessed with him. I wouldn't call any of his work pretentious exactly, but somehow I feel he thought himself above the genres he worked in. His underlying attitude feels a bit too flippant.


Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:57 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
MGamesCook wrote:
Don't know if this has made it into this thread yet, but

Howard Hawks = insanely overrated.

I've thought a long time about how best to summarize my problem with Howard Hawks. What I managed to come up with is this:

I have a problem with a film whose entire quality reveals itself in the first five minutes. It makes it feel like the rest of it is on autopilot, and that description fits Hawks' career pretty well. There are never any surprises in his movies, and never really any twists. He has little or no sense of gravitas and drama, but that's probably why certain critics became obsessed with him. I wouldn't call any of his work pretentious exactly, but somehow I feel he thought himself above the genres he worked in. His underlying attitude feels a bit too flippant.


My problem with Hawks is that, and not to get too French about the whole thing, I just don't get what his deal is as a director. He doesn't seem to have a through-line stylistically or thematically. I don't get, really, what his deal is artistically

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Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:42 am
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