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The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood 
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
JamesKunz wrote:
Ken wrote:
Courts interpret laws, and their rulings collectively become case law... which is only nominally law, because the rulings only apply to future interpretations of laws that already existed.

It's stupid and confusing, but that's what happens when you let idiots run things.


You know it's easy to mock, but America has been a democracy for 230 years without ever letting an extremist take over and without ever having the government collapse (quasi-exception -- civil war) and that's not easy. France, which has been a democracy for almost the same amount of time, is on Attempt #5. Our system is imperfect but there is no system of ruling millions of people that's even close to perfect. And yes we lag behind Sweden and Norway blah blah blah I know, but we have a much larger and much more heterogeneous population, which makes ruling more difficult. Our system is pretty good

The United States is a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Sure, the two words are used interchangeably these days, but there is a very clear difference between the two.

It is also worth noting that the word "democracy" is never mentioned in the U.S. Constitution.

Sure, this quote might be wrongly attributed to Franklin, but it is still one worth remembered: "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."


Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:18 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Sean wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
Ken wrote:
Courts interpret laws, and their rulings collectively become case law... which is only nominally law, because the rulings only apply to future interpretations of laws that already existed.

It's stupid and confusing, but that's what happens when you let idiots run things.


You know it's easy to mock, but America has been a democracy for 230 years without ever letting an extremist take over and without ever having the government collapse (quasi-exception -- civil war) and that's not easy. France, which has been a democracy for almost the same amount of time, is on Attempt #5. Our system is imperfect but there is no system of ruling millions of people that's even close to perfect. And yes we lag behind Sweden and Norway blah blah blah I know, but we have a much larger and much more heterogeneous population, which makes ruling more difficult. Our system is pretty good

The United States is a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Sure, the two words are used interchangeably these days, but there is a very clear difference between the two.

It is also worth noting that the word "democracy" is never mentioned in the U.S. Constitution.

Sure, this quote might be wrongly attributed to Franklin, but it is still one worth remembered: "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."


A republic is a type of a democracy. A democracy simply refers to a form of government in which power resides with the people. To say the United States is "not a democracy" is like saying that a square is not a rectangle.

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Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:53 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Today, the two words are used interchangeably, so I can understand how many regard democracy and representative government as the same. I was describing the two in the traditional sense.


Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:46 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
JamesKunz wrote:
Ken wrote:
Courts interpret laws, and their rulings collectively become case law... which is only nominally law, because the rulings only apply to future interpretations of laws that already existed.

It's stupid and confusing, but that's what happens when you let idiots run things.


You know it's easy to mock, but America has been a democracy for 230 years without ever letting an extremist take over and without ever having the government collapse (quasi-exception -- civil war) and that's not easy. France, which has been a democracy for almost the same amount of time, is on Attempt #5. Our system is imperfect but there is no system of ruling millions of people that's even close to perfect. And yes we lag behind Sweden and Norway blah blah blah I know, but we have a much larger and much more heterogeneous population, which makes ruling more difficult. Our system is pretty good

I'm not mocking America's success rate as a democracy. I'm specifically mocking the way our court system sits squarely in the middle of a bog of endless, often hilarious case law. And I am without remorse.

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Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:48 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
JamesKunz wrote:
Sean wrote:
The United States is a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Sure, the two words are used interchangeably these days, but there is a very clear difference between the two.


A republic is a type of a democracy. A democracy simply refers to a form of government in which power resides with the people. To say the United States is "not a democracy" is like saying that a square is not a rectangle.


When you consider the true meaning of the definition, Sean is right. The Greek origins of the word democracy ("demos" "kratia") literally means "rule by the people." Obviously, the construction of laws in America is not decided by every person having a vote in the Congress. I personally consider America to be a republic that has become less democratic since the end of the Vietnam War, and especially less democratic since the election of Ronald Reagan.

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Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:14 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
Sean wrote:
The United States is a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Sure, the two words are used interchangeably these days, but there is a very clear difference between the two.


A republic is a type of a democracy. A democracy simply refers to a form of government in which power resides with the people. To say the United States is "not a democracy" is like saying that a square is not a rectangle.


When you consider the true meaning of the definition, Sean is right. The Greek origins of the word democracy ("demos" "kratia") literally means "rule by the people." Obviously, the construction of laws in America is not decided by every person having a vote in the Congress. I personally consider America to be a republic that has become less democratic since the end of the Vietnam War, and especially less democratic since the election of Ronald Reagan.


Using the root to determine the "true meaning" of anything is a fool's game. The word "sanguine" in English means cheerful and optimistic. The Latin word means "blood." Doesn't make the word wrong in English.

And you're looking at it wrong anyway. Giving everyone a vote in Congress wouldn't make the country a "democracy." There is no government just called "democracy." That would make it a direct democracy, in opposed to our current representative democracy. Or, more specifically, as Sean said, a constitutional republic.

I don't mean to be annoying, but I teach this stuff.

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Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:27 am
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Ken wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
Ken wrote:
Courts interpret laws, and their rulings collectively become case law... which is only nominally law, because the rulings only apply to future interpretations of laws that already existed.

It's stupid and confusing, but that's what happens when you let idiots run things.


You know it's easy to mock, but America has been a democracy for 230 years without ever letting an extremist take over and without ever having the government collapse (quasi-exception -- civil war) and that's not easy. France, which has been a democracy for almost the same amount of time, is on Attempt #5. Our system is imperfect but there is no system of ruling millions of people that's even close to perfect. And yes we lag behind Sweden and Norway blah blah blah I know, but we have a much larger and much more heterogeneous population, which makes ruling more difficult. Our system is pretty good

I'm not mocking America's success rate as a democracy. I'm specifically mocking the way our court system sits squarely in the middle of a bog of endless, often hilarious case law. And I am without remorse.


That I will concede to you. I mean, I support abortion, but the idea that it is legal simply because of a 5-4 decision predicated on an implied right to privacy found in the Bill of Rights is absurd.

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Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:28 am
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Since we're talking about political trends in Hollywood, I find it a tad refreshing to hear Woody Harrelson self-identify as an anarchist: http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/03/woody ... ike-nixon/.


Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:50 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Sean wrote:
Since we're talking about political trends in Hollywood, I find it a tad refreshing to hear Woody Harrelson self-identify as an anarchist: http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/03/woody ... ike-nixon/.


That's all well and good until someone throws a garbage can through his window or sets his house on fire. Unless he's all for anarchy as long as it's on the other side of the wall of his gated community.


Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:42 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Johnny Larue wrote:
Sean wrote:
Since we're talking about political trends in Hollywood, I find it a tad refreshing to hear Woody Harrelson self-identify as an anarchist: http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/03/woody ... ike-nixon/.


That's all well and good until someone throws a garbage can through his window or sets his house on fire. Unless he's all for anarchy as long as it's on the other side of the wall of his gated community.

I find it a bit difficult to take most anarchists seriously, as I think a majority of them tend to hurt causes more then help them. Like with Occupy Wall Street a few years ago, where a few anarchists were smashing windows and setting stuff on fire, which unfortunately only served to discredit the movement as a whole.


Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:50 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Johnny Larue wrote:
That's all well and good until someone throws a garbage can through his window or sets his house on fire. Unless he's all for anarchy as long as it's on the other side of the wall of his gated community.

Anarchy is not synonymous with disorder.

I can sympathize with anarchists in some ways, but ultimately it's too extreme a point of view for me to seriously consider. The central argument of anarchy is that natural order is more functional than order under a designated group of leaders, but it's easy to forget that leadership is ultimately a tool--something human beings developed in order to improve their lives, and something which rose out of natural order in the first place.

For example, an early agrarian society notices that some farms have better access to the river than others. So they appoint a committee of able-bodied ditch diggers in order to address the issue, for the betterment of their community as a whole. Such things will rise out of natural order by necessity. That in itself is not a problem. The problem of leadership lies in how to prevent the power-hungry from abusing it to their own advantage.

It's one thing to point out that our leadership brings with it a lot of problems, and I'm not suggesting that those problems don't need to be addressed. But anarchy, to me, suggests throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

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Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:21 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
I have begun to embrace anarchism as a viable political ideology more and more in recent weeks. Anyone who thinks that its main focus is chaos and destruction, however, is wrongly mistaken.

In all honesty, my political views are a mish-mash of socialist, libertarian, and anarchist ideals, although I am probably closest to the second of these three in terms of general opinion. Then again, I still consider myself, above all else, an independent.

It is, however, nice to see Harrelson offer up a thoughtful criticism of the Obama administration, unlike many other Hollywood liberals.
Quote:
People compare Obama to Lyndon Johnson, but I think a better comparison is between Obama and Nixon. Because Nixon came into office saying he was going to pull out of Vietnam, and then he escalated the war. A lot of us were led to believe that Obama was the peace president, but there are still, I think, 70,000 troops in Afghanistan.
He was also a fan of Most Dangerous Man in America: Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers, one of the most important political documentaries in recent memory.


Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:27 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
I wouldn't go as far as pressing for Anarchism, but the state-worship-democracy that we in the west have developed for ourselves has given us biblical debt; borderline sociopathic leaders like Tony Blair and Barack Obama; and of course the wonderfully Orwellian Prism surveillance system.

I can honestly see a future where people's brain waves are mapped by the state to search for "terrorist activity".

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Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:48 am
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
NotHughGrant wrote:
I wouldn't go as far as pressing for Anarchism, but the state-worship-democracy that we in the west have developed for ourselves has given us biblical debt; borderline sociopathic leaders like Tony Blair and Barack Obama; and of course the wonderfully Orwellian Prism surveillance system.

I can honestly see a future where people's brain waves are mapped by the state to search for "terrorist activity".


I can see describing a plague as "biblical," but for debt it seems inapt. I don't think, for all Obama's faults, that he's a (borderline) sociopath though.

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Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:35 am
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Ken wrote:
Johnny Larue wrote:
That's all well and good until someone throws a garbage can through his window or sets his house on fire. Unless he's all for anarchy as long as it's on the other side of the wall of his gated community.

Anarchy is not synonymous with disorder.

anarchy /Noun
1.A state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority.
2.Absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.

Synonyms
chaos - misrule - anarchism

Strict definitions that describe that this can be a "utopian state" nothwithstanding, I think most people think of the violent aspects of anarchy when they hear the word.


Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:52 am
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Johnny Larue wrote:
Ken wrote:
Johnny Larue wrote:
That's all well and good until someone throws a garbage can through his window or sets his house on fire. Unless he's all for anarchy as long as it's on the other side of the wall of his gated community.

Anarchy is not synonymous with disorder.

anarchy /Noun
1.A state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority.
2.Absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.

Synonyms
chaos - misrule - anarchism

Strict definitions that describe that this can be a "utopian state" nothwithstanding, I think most people think of the violent aspects of anarchy when they hear the word.


Thanks Johnny. I was considering saying this but I'm too pedantic already and am glad someone else did.

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Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:31 am
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
JamesKunz wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
I wouldn't go as far as pressing for Anarchism, but the state-worship-democracy that we in the west have developed for ourselves has given us biblical debt; borderline sociopathic leaders like Tony Blair and Barack Obama; and of course the wonderfully Orwellian Prism surveillance system.

I can honestly see a future where people's brain waves are mapped by the state to search for "terrorist activity".


I can see describing a plague as "biblical," but for debt it seems inapt. I don't think, for all Obama's faults, that he's a (borderline) sociopath though.

A true sociopath is someone like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, etc. I wouldn't call Bush one though, as he was pretty much a puppet of those three, they were the ones who were really in charge of the country.

Also I think people are greatly misusing the term "Orwelian"(a term which I find annoying to begin with)


Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:18 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Johnny Larue wrote:
Ken wrote:
Johnny Larue wrote:
That's all well and good until someone throws a garbage can through his window or sets his house on fire. Unless he's all for anarchy as long as it's on the other side of the wall of his gated community.

Anarchy is not synonymous with disorder.

anarchy /Noun
1.A state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority.
2.Absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.

Synonyms
chaos - misrule - anarchism

Strict definitions that describe that this can be a "utopian state" nothwithstanding, I think most people think of the violent aspects of anarchy when they hear the word.

We're not talking about dictionary definitions here. The word "liberal", for instance, has numerous definitions in various parts of the globe. The same goes for anarchism.
NotHughGrant wrote:
I wouldn't go as far as pressing for Anarchism, but the state-worship-democracy that we in the west have developed for ourselves has given us biblical debt; borderline sociopathic leaders like Tony Blair and Barack Obama; and of course the wonderfully Orwellian Prism surveillance system.

I can honestly see a future where people's brain waves are mapped by the state to search for "terrorist activity".

Nice to see someone just as angry about PRISM as I am. I rarely use this term, but Edward Snowden is a true American hero.
Vexer wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
I wouldn't go as far as pressing for Anarchism, but the state-worship-democracy that we in the west have developed for ourselves has given us biblical debt; borderline sociopathic leaders like Tony Blair and Barack Obama; and of course the wonderfully Orwellian Prism surveillance system.

I can honestly see a future where people's brain waves are mapped by the state to search for "terrorist activity".


I can see describing a plague as "biblical," but for debt it seems inapt. I don't think, for all Obama's faults, that he's a (borderline) sociopath though.

A true sociopath is someone like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, etc. I wouldn't call Bush one though, as he was pretty much a puppet of those three, they were the ones who were really in charge of the country.

Also I think people are greatly misusing the term "Orwelian"(a term which I find annoying to begin with)

How so?

The PRISM program meets the very definition of Orwellian. It's nice to finally see the media shaken out of its state-worshiping stupor, but they'll return to their regular programming the minute that this becomes "old news".


Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:47 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
This has been old news for awhile actually as the NSA has had similar programs in place for years now(since at least 2006).


Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:56 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Vexer wrote:
This has been old news for awhile actually as the NSA has had similar programs in place for years now(since at least 2006).

PRISM has been going on for a long time now. The fact of the matter is that many Americans were unaware of it until Glenn Greenwald and The Washington Post reported on it.

It may be "old news", but it's still important news.


Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:04 pm
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