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The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood 
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Post The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Vexer wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
Ken wrote:
Avatar was hilarious, because people couldn't even agree on which previously-existing movie it was supposed to be.


I don't think we need to compare it to another film. Avatar was the ejaculation of all liberal hollywood thought on colonialism and western civilisation. It was hypocritical leftwing history for the MTV generation. Pure exploitation. I mean, that bad guy, you know, the bad Seargent - he looked like an SS Officer had mated with WWF white-trash.

Hell, that film had the deft of a hydrogen bomb - and I'm betting some of the target audience still didn't get it.

Avatar is an expensive pamphlet. It's hard to compare it with anything because it's just so concentrated.

I'm mostly liberal and left-wing and that film was far too heavy-handed and ridiculous even for me, as i'm not a huge eco-freak like Cameron(or Al Gore for that matter).

Are we talking about the same Al Gore who rides around in airplanes warning people about global warming (which, for the record, I believe to be very real and caused by humans)?

I don't really think that there is a left wing in the United States. Sure, Fox News might go on about how some Democrats are "far left-wing", but in all honesty, there is no political faction in the U.S. that places value on socialist ideas. Both the Democrats and the Republicans espouse corporatist viewpoints, arguing largely in favor of greater government expansion both domestically and globally.

Think of it this way. Hollywood "liberals" went on about how bad Bush was five years ago; now, Obama commits many of the same atrocities that Bush did, but not one major celebrity (with the exception of John Cusack) has held him accountable. Just sayin'.

So, yes. Avatar may contain a plethora of differing political ideologies, but in the end, it's just another action movie. A beautifully-made one, however.

Political rant over.

Some more unpopular opinions from me.

1. A.I. Artificial Intelligence and The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford are both masterpieces.

2. Michael Moore is a hypocrite, and to call him a "documentarian" is a great insult to countless film-makers throughout the world.

3. An Inconvenient Truth is a dull lecture that just happened to be captured on film.


Last edited by Sean on Fri May 24, 2013 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri May 24, 2013 2:54 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
I think you're dead wrong about Moore and Obama, but whatever. As for Al Gore, he's a hypocrite, his house uses up more energy in one day then the average person uses in a week. You ever heard of "carbon credits"? That's one of the dumbest things i've ever heard. Personally I don't really go for socialist ideals.

BTW, Cusack is an idiot.


Last edited by Vexer on Fri May 24, 2013 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri May 24, 2013 3:18 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Vexer wrote:
I think you're dead wrong about Moore and Obama, but whatever. As for Al Gore, he's a hypocrite, his house uses up more energy in one day then the average person uses in a week. You ever heard of "carbon credits"? That's one of the dumbest things i've ever heard. Personally I don't really go for socialist ideals.

Carbon credits are a ridiculous idea.

If you any facts to refute my claim that Bush and Obama are essentially the same, then present them. Don't just defend him without bringing something substantial to the table. I believe that they are eerily similar because they were both backed by Wall Street banks and play important parts in elevating the "War on Terror". In fact, Obama has done everything in his power to continue the Bush-era policies of secrecy, even expanding the drone program in the process.

Moore goes out of his way to not just distort facts in his documentaries, but also particular interviews. I loved Zero Dark Thirty as a film, even though I was repulsed by its politics. Moore's films are meant to be documentaries, however, so they are fair game.

For the record, I know that this thread is about discussing unpopular opinions concerning movies. At the same time, I feel that some political discussion is relevant, seeing as it fits in perfectly with the "leftist" paradigm that is present in Hollywood these days.


Fri May 24, 2013 3:24 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
The real facts on Al Gore's home, or how I learned to stop worrying and love looking into questionable news reports instead of just accepting them and parroting them like so many annoying Facebook memes.

On the subject of Obama, I wouldn't say he's the same as Bush. That seems a bit reductive. In some ways, he's a lot better. In some ways, he's a lot worse. He has to be recognized for the stride he took on gays in the military. Recall that just two presidents ago, we had a Democrat who signed off on "don't ask, don't tell"--and that was sold to us as the progressive move. And while it was a bit jaundiced, he at least bothered to acknowledge that there are religious non-believers in America without qualifying that they should have less rights, are less patriotic, or whatever. On the other side of the coin, his military style is very bloodthirsty, he doesn't give two squirts of doodoo juice about climate change, and he's just as much in the back pocket of the plutocracy as any president. Sean is definitely right on one count: the real American left doesn't have meaningful representation in either of the two major parties.

And as long as I'm cleaning up on mini-topics, I don't cotton much to the theory of Hollywood left-wing bias. Yeah, we might have leftist movie stars, screenwriters, etc.--but the real players are some of the richest corporate heavyweights on Earth, and it shows. It shows in the white-washed casting. It shows in the aggressive cowboy/militaristic portrayal of physical conflict. It shows in the heteronormative view of interpersonal relationships. Earlier, I half-jokingly characterized big Hollywood productions as movies that talk like a liberal and blow shit up like a conservative. It might be more accurate to characterize them as right-wing movies that occasionally show up in left-wing clothing. The ideas preached on the surface might be leftist, but the underlying, more subversive side of it sells us a lifestyle very much in keeping with a conservative view of America.

Michael Moore is at his best when he's being a puckish comedian--e.g. the Awful Truth segment when he had people redeeming their cell phones and wallets for replacements that were painted bright orange. But when he puts on his journalism hat, he's just as much of a clown as any of the Fox News talk show geeks. He doesn't have the rhetorical ability of a real documentarian, so he resorts to trickery that insults the intelligence of his audience.

---

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Fri May 24, 2013 4:06 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Vexer wrote:
I think you're dead wrong about Moore and Obama, but whatever. As for Al Gore, he's a hypocrite, his house uses up more energy in one day then the average person uses in a week. You ever heard of "carbon credits"? That's one of the dumbest things i've ever heard. Personally I don't really go for socialist ideals.

BTW, Cusack is an idiot.

Please elaborate. Given that he played a tremendous part in establishing the Freedom of the Press Foundation (and regularly discusses the abuses of the Obama administration on Twitter), I think that he has a much greater stake in the field of political discussion than many other Hollywood "leftists". Especially when compared to the "liberal" twats who voice their concern for the American middle class once every four years. Take this ridiculous tweet by Zachary Quinto: https://twitter.com/ZacharyQuinto/statu ... 2411511810. Here, he commended Obama during the 2012 presidential election for his "respectful pronunciation" of "Pakistan". What difference does his pronunciation make when he's ordering drone strikes against innocent men, women, and children living there?
Ken wrote:
The real facts on Al Gore's home, or how I learned to stop worrying and love looking into questionable news reports instead of just accepting them and parroting them like so many annoying Facebook memes.

On the subject of Obama, I wouldn't say he's the same as Bush. That seems a bit reductive. In some ways, he's a lot better. In some ways, he's a lot worse. He has to be recognized for the stride he took on gays in the military. Recall that just two presidents ago, we had a Democrat who signed off on "don't ask, don't tell"--and that was sold to us as the progressive move. And while it was a bit jaundiced, he at least bothered to acknowledge that there are religious non-believers in America without qualifying that they should have less rights, are less patriotic, or whatever. On the other side of the coin, his military style is very bloodthirsty, he doesn't give two squirts of doodoo juice about climate change, and he's just as much in the back pocket of the plutocracy as any president. Sean is definitely right on one count: the real American left doesn't have meaningful representation in either of the two major parties.

And as long as I'm cleaning up on mini-topics, I don't cotton much to the theory of Hollywood left-wing bias. Yeah, we might have leftist movie stars, screenwriters, etc.--but the real players are some of the richest corporate heavyweights on Earth, and it shows. It shows in the white-washed casting. It shows in the aggressive cowboy/militaristic portrayal of physical conflict. It shows in the heteronormative view of interpersonal relationships. Earlier, I half-jokingly characterized big Hollywood productions as movies that talk like a liberal and blow shit up like a conservative. It might be more accurate to characterize them as right-wing movies that occasionally show up in left-wing clothing. The ideas preached on the surface might be leftist, but the underlying, more subversive side of it sells us a lifestyle very much in keeping with a conservative view of America.

Michael Moore is at his best when he's being a puckish comedian--e.g. the Awful Truth segment when he had people redeeming their cell phones and wallets for replacements that were painted bright orange. But when he puts on his journalism hat, he's just as much of a clown as any of the Fox News talk show geeks. He doesn't have the rhetorical ability of a real documentarian, so he resorts to trickery that insults the intelligence of his audience.

---

The odor of today's unpopular opinions: the public bathroom that Larry Craig was caught in.

The point is that Gore's enthusiasm concerning climate change is hardly genuine.

I feel that Obama's stance on marriage equality can be attributed to the fact that election season was just around the corner. Now, of course I agree with the repeal of "don't ask, don't tell", but I fail to see how Obama has done anything significant to help this cause. It just seems like a tremendous deal of uproar over an issue that could easily be resolved constitutionally. The First Amendment protects freedom of expression and freedom of association, so it could just as easily be used to defend marriage equality. Keeping the government out of marriage just seems like the best solution. I cannot even begin to understand why this institution has become a bureaucratic function. At the same time, I support any legislation that protects the right of individuals to marry whomever they desire.

I agree with you on Moore entirely. I don't disagree with everything he says. Fahrenheit 9/11 makes many valid arguments, and Capitalism: A Love Story is compelling at times, although I believe that the term Moore is looking for is "corporatism". Nonetheless, I believe that he is a hypocrite, a showman who just happens to enjoy masquerading as a documentarian. He has criticized Obama's civil liberties violations time and time again, yet he still refuses to take an active stand against him.

Does Moore even have any plans for making a new movie anytime soon? Anyone?


Fri May 24, 2013 4:29 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
I don't see what's so ridiculous about what Quinto says?


Fri May 24, 2013 4:35 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Vexer wrote:
I don't see what's so ridiculous about what Quinto says?

Obama pronounces "Pakistan" respectfully, yet he's constantly bombing the country and killing innocent civilians in the process.

Quinto may play Spock, but the Vulcan's sense of logic clearly eludes him.


Fri May 24, 2013 4:45 pm
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Post Re: Left vs. Right in Hollywood
Thread split

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Fri May 24, 2013 4:56 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Ken wrote:
And as long as I'm cleaning up on mini-topics, I don't cotton much to the theory of Hollywood left-wing bias. Yeah, we might have leftist movie stars, screenwriters, etc.--but the real players are some of the richest corporate heavyweights on Earth, and it shows. It shows in the white-washed casting. It shows in the aggressive cowboy/militaristic portrayal of physical conflict. It shows in the heteronormative view of interpersonal relationships. Earlier, I half-jokingly characterized big Hollywood productions as movies that talk like a liberal and blow shit up like a conservative. It might be more accurate to characterize them as right-wing movies that occasionally show up in left-wing clothing. The ideas preached on the surface might be leftist, but the underlying, more subversive side of it sells us a lifestyle very much in keeping with a conservative view of America.


You and I are in complete agreement. This is something I've considered writing about for my master's thesis. Working title: A Cinema of Conformity. How did Hollywood, once a place that took on daring, controversial topics and make good movies to boot, become so whitewashed, homogenized, and well...boring?

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Fri May 24, 2013 4:57 pm
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Post Re: Left vs. Right in Hollywood
Nice to see that this thread wasn't completely erased.

Continue.


Fri May 24, 2013 4:59 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
Ken wrote:
And as long as I'm cleaning up on mini-topics, I don't cotton much to the theory of Hollywood left-wing bias. Yeah, we might have leftist movie stars, screenwriters, etc.--but the real players are some of the richest corporate heavyweights on Earth, and it shows. It shows in the white-washed casting. It shows in the aggressive cowboy/militaristic portrayal of physical conflict. It shows in the heteronormative view of interpersonal relationships. Earlier, I half-jokingly characterized big Hollywood productions as movies that talk like a liberal and blow shit up like a conservative. It might be more accurate to characterize them as right-wing movies that occasionally show up in left-wing clothing. The ideas preached on the surface might be leftist, but the underlying, more subversive side of it sells us a lifestyle very much in keeping with a conservative view of America.


You and I are in complete agreement. This is something I've considered writing about for my master's thesis. Working title: A Cinema of Conformity. How did Hollywood, once a place that took on daring, controversial topics and make good movies to boot, become so whitewashed, homogenized, and well...boring?


I'm kinda with you. Still can't believe V for Vendetta got made in 2006.

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Fri May 24, 2013 5:01 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
JamesKunz wrote:
I'm kinda with you. Still can't believe V for Vendetta got made in 2006.


Every once in a while something with really liberal ideas slips through the cracks (see Bulworth, Syriana). I think it also helped the V For Vendetta was set in England.

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Fri May 24, 2013 5:11 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
V For Vendetta was also very tame compared to the source material. It might have been hot stuff compared to the other movies at the time, but I'm sure a big selling point with the producers was the promise that the really subversive stuff wasn't going to make it in.

Filmmakers do this all the time, sometimes with the bean counters and sometimes with the MPAA--there's stuff that they're worried will be cut, and then there's stuff they know for sure will get cut. They use the latter to take the heat off the former.

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Fri May 24, 2013 7:44 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Ken wrote:
V For Vendetta was also very tame compared to the source material. It might have been hot stuff compared to the other movies at the time, but I'm sure a big selling point with the producers was the promise that the really subversive stuff wasn't going to make it in.

Filmmakers do this all the time, sometimes with the bean counters and sometimes with the MPAA--there's stuff that they're worried will be cut, and then there's stuff they know for sure will get cut. They use the latter to take the heat off the former.


The film might be "tame" compared to its source material, but it still is the most pro-gay film I've ever seen.

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Fri May 24, 2013 8:29 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Let's not forget Top Gun.

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Fri May 24, 2013 8:40 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
What about all those anti-war films like Stop Loss, Home Of The Brave and Redacted?


Fri May 24, 2013 8:55 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Ken wrote:
And as long as I'm cleaning up on mini-topics, I don't cotton much to the theory of Hollywood left-wing bias. Yeah, we might have leftist movie stars, screenwriters, etc.--but the real players are some of the richest corporate heavyweights on Earth, and it shows. It shows in the white-washed casting. It shows in the aggressive cowboy/militaristic portrayal of physical conflict. It shows in the heteronormative view of interpersonal relationships. Earlier, I half-jokingly characterized big Hollywood productions as movies that talk like a liberal and blow shit up like a conservative. It might be more accurate to characterize them as right-wing movies that occasionally show up in left-wing clothing. The ideas preached on the surface might be leftist, but the underlying, more subversive side of it sells us a lifestyle very much in keeping with a conservative view of America.


I'm with you, especially the bit about whitewashed casting. For the record, I'm Caucasian, but I do wish there wasn't that mentality in Hollywood where if there's more than one black person in a movie, it automatically becomes a "Black Movie," suitable only for black audiences.

This article from cracked.com, which was written two years ago but still feels very accurate, goes deeper than I can.
http://www.cracked.com/article_19549_5-old-timey-prejudices-that-still-show-up-in-every-movie.html

And I have the perfect idea to buck the trend: Star Wars: Episode VII. If producers/directors will cast primarily non-Caucasian actors in this movie, millions of people will still see it and profits will still be strong. It's Star Wars! You still get your action, creatures, awe-inspiring visuals, and lightsaber battles. This isn't going to happen, but I feel it's as good an opportunity as any.

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Fri May 24, 2013 9:26 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
KWRoss wrote:
Ken wrote:
And as long as I'm cleaning up on mini-topics, I don't cotton much to the theory of Hollywood left-wing bias. Yeah, we might have leftist movie stars, screenwriters, etc.--but the real players are some of the richest corporate heavyweights on Earth, and it shows. It shows in the white-washed casting. It shows in the aggressive cowboy/militaristic portrayal of physical conflict. It shows in the heteronormative view of interpersonal relationships. Earlier, I half-jokingly characterized big Hollywood productions as movies that talk like a liberal and blow shit up like a conservative. It might be more accurate to characterize them as right-wing movies that occasionally show up in left-wing clothing. The ideas preached on the surface might be leftist, but the underlying, more subversive side of it sells us a lifestyle very much in keeping with a conservative view of America.


I'm with you, especially the bit about whitewashed casting. For the record, I'm Caucasian, but I do wish there wasn't that mentality in Hollywood where if there's more than one black person in a movie, it automatically becomes a "Black Movie," suitable only for black audiences.

This article from cracked.com, which was written two years ago but still feels very accurate, goes deeper than I can.
http://www.cracked.com/article_19549_5-old-timey-prejudices-that-still-show-up-in-every-movie.html

And I have the perfect idea to buck the trend: Star Wars: Episode VII. If producers/directors will cast primarily non-Caucasian actors in this movie, millions of people will still see it and profits will still be strong. It's Star Wars! You still get your action, creatures, awe-inspiring visuals, and lightsaber battles. This isn't going to happen, but I feel it's as good an opportunity as any.
I won't avoid a film just because it has a lack of non-caucasian actor, i'll see the seventh SW film regardless. Would it be nice to see a major blockbuster featuring non-white actors? Yes definitely, but I just don't know if it's going to happen anytime soon, especially after the critical and commercial dissapointment of Red Tails, which took decades just to get greenlit, and spent two years on the shelf. Plus Danny Glover has been trying to get a movie about the Haitian revolution made for years, but he said the lack of "white heroes" in the story has prevented it from being greenlit.

The Fast and Furious series is one franchise that is fairly equal in that regard as many of the major characters are minorities, the sixth film has three major black characters, one asian, one latino and one middle-eastern, that's pretty diverse(the fifth film also had two spanish and two portugese characters), even the lead, Vin Diesel's ethnicity is pretty vague(he said he was "Italian and a lot of other stuff" and was raised by a black step-father) Paul Walker and Luke Evans are the only major caucasian actors in the sixth film.


Fri May 24, 2013 10:01 pm
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Vexer wrote:
What about all those anti-war films like Stop Loss, Home Of The Brave and Redacted?

All big-budget, mass-marketed box office juggernauts, as I recall.

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Sat May 25, 2013 12:06 am
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Post Re: The Left-Right Paradigm in Hollywood
Ken wrote:
Vexer wrote:
What about all those anti-war films like Stop Loss, Lions For Lambs, Green Zone, Home Of The Brave and Redacted?

All big-budget, mass-marketed box office juggernauts, as I recall.

They may not have been succesful, but they still got made nonetheless.


Sat May 25, 2013 12:37 am
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