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This year...I'm watching every Star Trek 
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
JamesKunz wrote:
Vexer wrote:
ilovemovies wrote:
Guess I'm the only one who loved Insurrection. I'm probably the only one who loved Nemesis as well.

I found Insurrection to be decent, my main issue was the gigantic plot hole involving the main villains(which the studio execs actually pointed out, only to get completely ignored by the director)

I too loved Nemesis, it's my favorite Trek film.


What's the plot hole?

This page of the Agony Booth recap goes into detail about it: http://www.agonybooth.com/recaps/Star_Trek__Insurrection.aspx?Page=8


Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:32 pm
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
Vexer wrote:

What's the plot hole?

This page of the Agony Booth recap goes into detail about it: http://www.agonybooth.com/recaps/Star_Trek__Insurrection.aspx?Page=8[/quote]

I don't think that the plot hole was that big a deal, but that was a fun read -- thanks.

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Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:06 pm
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
JamesKunz wrote:
Vexer wrote:

What's the plot hole?

This page of the Agony Booth recap goes into detail about it: http://www.agonybooth.com/recaps/Star_Trek__Insurrection.aspx?Page=8


I don't think that the plot hole was that big a deal, but that was a fun read -- thanks.[/quote]


The "twist" isn't the worst of it, though. The real problem is that
[Reveal] Spoiler:
the Federation higher-ups who want to share the planet's healing properties are in the right, and the "Idyllic Villagers" are just being selfish, self-righteous pricks. Granted, the Federation is going about trying to do that in the most inefficient, assinine manner possible, but still.


Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:20 pm
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
dps wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
Vexer wrote:

What's the plot hole?

This page of the Agony Booth recap goes into detail about it: http://www.agonybooth.com/recaps/Star_Trek__Insurrection.aspx?Page=8


I don't think that the plot hole was that big a deal, but that was a fun read -- thanks.



The "twist" isn't the worst of it, though. The real problem is that
[Reveal] Spoiler:
the Federation higher-ups who want to share the planet's healing properties are in the right, and the "Idyllic Villagers" are just being selfish, self-righteous pricks. Granted, the Federation is going about trying to do that in the most inefficient, assinine manner possible, but still.
[/quote]

I do wish they would have explored this. It would have been such a nice logical tie-in to Spock/Kirk's perpetual debate over whether "The good of the many outweighs the good of the few" and would have introduced actual, you know, ideas to the TNG films for the first time

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Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:27 pm
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
First Contact deals with the difference between people as they are in life and as they become distorted by history, as well as the tension between Picard knowing the Borg's tactics better than any other Starfleet officer and being too close to the situation to make rational decisions. These themes are handled with about as much respect as Star Trek has ever handled its themes, which is a damn sight better than most sci-fi/adventure series.

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Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:53 pm
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
Ken wrote:
First Contact deals with the difference between people as they are in life and as they become distorted by history, as well as the tension between Picard knowing the Borg's tactics better than any other Starfleet officer and being too close to the situation to make rational decisions. These themes are handled with about as much respect as Star Trek has ever handled its themes, which is a damn sight better than most sci-fi/adventure series.


I thought any ideas with Picard vs. the Borg were thrown out in favor of action action action, though I will admit to finding the interaction between Data and the Borg queen interesting. I completely disagree about there being anything deep about the James Cromwell subplot though. They could have done something with the real life vs. historical distortion angle, but they were more interested in making jokes about people peeing.

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Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:33 am
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
JamesKunz wrote:
I completely disagree about there being anything deep about the James Cromwell subplot though. They could have done something with the real life vs. historical distortion angle, but they were more interested in making jokes about people peeing.


It wasn't necessarily deep. But there was that element of the fact that the Enterprise crew revered Cochrane as a sort of god and he turned out to be a drunk.

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Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:38 am
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
It's not deep. I don't know why anyone would expect it to be, considering that Star Trek tends to be very up-front and on the surface about what it means to say. It's not necessarily a shallow series, but it plays everything broad and obvious. Subtlety and onion-like analytical depths need not apply.

That's why a lot of Trek fans rejected the new movie--because Star Trek trumpets everything loud and clear, and the new one trumpeted its vapidness almost from the get-go.

Zefram Cochrane wasn't just a drunk. It was genuinely interesting to see him learn about his life--or rather his historically remembered life--from people who had advance knowledge of it. I always wondered what would happen in real life if notable figures were told what they would accomplish before they actually did it, and I think First Contact handles the issue reasonably and plausibly. Cromwell's reaction when he's told that he's standing where his statue will eventually be is well-played, and the chip on his shoulder isn't so exaggerated that you can't see the qualities that would eventually make the character who he was.

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Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:31 pm
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
Ken wrote:
I always wondered what would happen in real life if notable figures were told what they would accomplish before they actually did it.



You might enjoy reading the 1632 series of books.


Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:01 pm
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) **

And so the series has come to an end. I can't say it ended on a high note. There's not much good here at all. No ideas, a lame plot, poor character usage...one of the worst films in the series. But, hey, a sex scene and young Tom Hardy?

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Wed May 15, 2013 9:00 pm
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
JamesKunz wrote:
Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) **

And so the series has come to an end. I can't say it ended on a high note. There's not much good here at all. No ideas, a lame plot, poor character usage...one of the worst films in the series. But, hey, a sex scene and young Tom Hardy?

Two stars? You must have been in a good mood going into that film.

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Wed May 15, 2013 9:46 pm
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
Ragnarok73 wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) **

And so the series has come to an end. I can't say it ended on a high note. There's not much good here at all. No ideas, a lame plot, poor character usage...one of the worst films in the series. But, hey, a sex scene and young Tom Hardy?

Two stars? You must have been in a good mood going into that film.

I'd give it 3 stars myself.


Wed May 15, 2013 10:13 pm
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
Ragnarok73 wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) **

And so the series has come to an end. I can't say it ended on a high note. There's not much good here at all. No ideas, a lame plot, poor character usage...one of the worst films in the series. But, hey, a sex scene and young Tom Hardy?

Two stars? You must have been in a good mood going into that film.


Well it's at least competently made, right? That's gotta count for something.

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Wed May 15, 2013 10:22 pm
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
Star Trek Into Darkness (2013) ***

I caught the latest Star Trek today, thereby re-achieving the goal that I achieved on Wednesday -- seeing every Star Trek film. I liked it quite a bit. It has one chase scene too many, the callbacks to previous films are a bit much after a while, and the abrupt ending is a problem (especially since we could have cut out that foot chase and provided more time for a denouement) but the character interaction is nice (oh how nice it is to see Kirk/Spock/McCoy after four imposter movies), the action is exciting and I had a rollicking good time.

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Sat May 18, 2013 8:15 pm
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
No idea's in Nemesis? Not true at all. Nemesis is extremely underrated and really deals with identity and how the events in our lives shape who we are. This is personified in the characters of Shinzon and the android they find on the planet. The scenes between Picard and Shinzon talking to each other are fascinating and the key scene in the movie is the one between Picard and Data later in the movie. I love the movie.

As for Into Darkness, the character moments don't really work for me because they don't feel like fully realized characters. To steal what my father said, who was absolutely right, they are caricatures of the previous characters. There's no depth to them. Watching Into Darkness was like watching a Saturday Night Live skit, albeit a feature length version of a SNL skit. It's a pale imitation of a particular episode and previous movie. This is especially true in a scene near the end of the movie, followed by a famous line that is replicated (though there is a role reversal). This scene is obviously suppose to be a very sad scene, but my reaction? I was chuckling throughout the entire scene and then came THE line and I laughed my butt off. Somehow, I don't think that was the response JJ Abrams was going for.

The movie wasn't horrible. It's watchable. After a terrible opening scene, after Starfleet HQ is attacked, the movie is actually fairly entertaining. It only starts to go down hill once they arrived at Kronos. Then we the horrible Klingons. And then the movie TRULY looses it's identity and turns into a pale imitator once John Harrison's true identity is revealed.

I actually really like JJ Abrams' 2009 reboot of Star Trek. I thought the whole alternate timeline invention was a clever way for Abrams' to truly give himself carte blanche and reinvent Star Trek while respecting and having the original time line intact. But this is not a reinvention. It's nearly a carbon copy. And not a very good one. If this is his idea of reinventing Star Trek, then maybe it's a good thing he's moving on to Star Wars and let somebody else take over Trek instead. And I say this as a big fan of Abrams'. But this is his first disappointment from him, for me.


Sun May 19, 2013 11:48 am
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
Personally I didn't laugh at that scene at all, I thought it worked very well for the film. I always foudn Wrath Of Khan to be quite overrated to be honest, so I didn't see this film as a carbon copy and instead saw it as a better version of that film.


Sun May 19, 2013 12:39 pm
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
It's a combination of not just Wrath of Khan, but they steal a lot from the original series episode titled. "Space Seed."


Sun May 19, 2013 12:47 pm
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
ilovemovies wrote:
No idea's in Nemesis? Not true at all. Nemesis is extremely underrated and really deals with identity and how the events in our lives shape who we are. This is personified in the characters of Shinzon and the android they find on the planet. The scenes between Picard and Shinzon talking to each other are fascinating and the key scene in the movie is the one between Picard and Data later in the movie. I love the movie.


Eh, I don't necessarily disagree, there are themes present in Nemesis. The problem is in execution, or more precisely, how they're presented. Namely, badly. I mean, it's the same with the cast. The characters are certainly there. They look the same, they sound the same. But they're so sketchily presented and developed that it kind of doesn't really matter.

Nemesis has some interesting elements, but it's all so badly presented, with such low energy that the whole thing turns into a bore.
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Sun May 19, 2013 1:10 pm
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
ilovemovies wrote:
It's a combination of not just Wrath of Khan, but they steal a lot from the original series episode titled. "Space Seed."

Well I didn't see much of the original series, so I didn't notice stuff like that.


Sun May 19, 2013 1:28 pm
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Post Re: This year...I'm watching every Star Trek
JamesKunz wrote:
Ragnarok73 wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) **

And so the series has come to an end. I can't say it ended on a high note. There's not much good here at all. No ideas, a lame plot, poor character usage...one of the worst films in the series. But, hey, a sex scene and young Tom Hardy?

Two stars? You must have been in a good mood going into that film.


Well it's at least competently made, right? That's gotta count for something.


This is the one I was most curious to read your review of, JamesKunz, since you said you hadn't watched the films before. I wondered how many of my issues with Nemesis were due to my status as a Trekker and my history as a fan of TNG in particular, and all of the reviews I've read were by fans. My biggest issue was B4. [Shudder] Basically if you cut everything with B4 out you take out all of the worst parts: the ridiculous dune buggy chase (I thought I was watching Star Trek? Huh?), the stupidity of the entire crew in trusting B4, his idiotic name, the idea that there was yet another Data clone that somehow we'd never heard of before, the near-cheat of suggesting that he could become another Data after all, no no no! I wasn't into the Remans either, and the telepathy stuff was hokey, but those weren't deal-breakers. Even that pic of Tom Hardy as Young Picard which is completely different from the representation of Young Picard in the series didn't kill it for me.

But B4 was completely wrong. There was a seasons-spanning arc in TNG with Data's brother Lore, who was evil through and through. Given that knowledge, that anyone would trust a stranded Soong android again without a thorough inspection of its programming was idiotic. It would have been much less insulting if they brought Lore back and tried to reform him somehow instead. I figured a somewhat green-to-TNG viewer would get a different impression.

But it is competently made. The Senate attack was great, the final space battle was absolute dynamite (IMHO the most spectacular Star Trek ever pulled off, though the nebula sequence in Wrath of Khan is more tense), and Tom Hardy rocked. Data space jumps from ship to ship for crying out loud! It's too bad Data's sacrifice wasn't more moving, or I might have even forgiven much of the B4 B.S.


Mon May 20, 2013 4:24 pm
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