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The thread where we air out unpopular opinions 
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
JamesKunz wrote:
The part that's so odd about your statement is that essentially every Holocaust film, made in the US or abroad, major filmmaker or minor filmmaker, big project or small, focuses on the experience of the Jews. Thus, singling out Schindler's List as being "Oscar bait" because it focuses on Jews is as absurd as my statement above.

Well all holocaust films ARE Oscar Bait :lol: , they don't always bite though!
Here's a piece from Kate Winslet on the subject from Extras: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEnjiGwVw6o (see, it's actually funny when she says it!)
But as another poster suggested, the whole term is hopelessly charged in every sense - because it does indeed presume a certain taste (whatever that may be), and I presented one possible scenario (and I'm starting to regret it). Are there any films you consider to be blatant Oscar Bait?


Mon May 13, 2013 9:42 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
"Oscar bait" refers to a certain taste and perhaps a certain subject matter, but I think it mainly refers to a marketing style. You didn't have to know anything about War Horse or the King's Speech to guess from the promotional campaigns that they were vying for awards. You don't have to know anything about Iron Man or Star Trek to know that they probably aren't.

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Mon May 13, 2013 9:45 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
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"Oscar Bait" in regards to Schindler's List given that it is solely about heinous crimes committed against Jews and the Academy is in all likelihood stacked with folks of Jewish descent? Do you find that statement to be somehow anti-Semitic maybe?


I wouldn't allege anything about you personally, but the statement itself is anti-semitic. I'm sorry, but it just is. And there's no point arguing about it.

I think Platoon is okay. I'd probly put Casualties of War above it.


Mon May 13, 2013 11:18 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
MGamesCook wrote:
Quote:
"Oscar Bait" in regards to Schindler's List given that it is solely about heinous crimes committed against Jews and the Academy is in all likelihood stacked with folks of Jewish descent? Do you find that statement to be somehow anti-Semitic maybe?


I wouldn't allege anything about you personally, but the statement itself is anti-semitic. I'm sorry, but it just is. And there's no point arguing about it.

Well I can at least assure that this isn't remotely my intention. Would saying "The Passion of the Christ plays more powerfully for Christians than for other religions" be a display of religious intolerance (imagine, if you will, that the academy consisted mostly of Christians and PotC had been showered with Oscars)? If that is how you would interpret this then I can see that suggesting the academy might be racially biased (i.e. pro-Jewish) could be construed as anti-Semitic (and I obviously can't PROVE it - it is pure conjecture on my part). In any case, I unreservedly apologize (to you and any one else) for any offence that I may have caused.


Mon May 13, 2013 11:51 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
-I think that Will Ferrell is only funny when he is NOT working with Adam McKay, and when he does work with him, he's unbearable.

-I think that Katherine Heigl has to be the worst actress in human history.

-I think that Rosemary's Baby is a masterpiece except for the ludicrous final scene.

-I think that Scream 4 is the best in the franchise

-I think that Turbulence and Fair Game are must-haves for Bad Movie Night because they're hilarious.

-I think that Tsui Hark is an awful director.

-I don't think that Nancy Meyers has much talent (Something's Gotta Give had a good first act but the rest was awful, and It's Complicated had only two or three funny scenes, and another that would have been funny with better handling).

-I liked Deep Rising and Virus in a campy sort of way.

-I think that Christian Coulson was the most memorable thing about Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (he played Tom Riddle), and have been waiting for ten years to see him in another movie.

-I think that Brotherhood of the Wolf is a perfect movie.

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Tue May 14, 2013 2:30 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
moviemkr7 wrote:
-I think that Will Ferrell is only funny when he is NOT working with Adam McKay, and when he does work with him, he's unbearable.

-I think that Katherine Heigl has to be the worst actress in human history.

-I think that Rosemary's Baby is a masterpiece except for the ludicrous final scene.

-I think that Scream 4 is the best in the franchise

-I think that Turbulence and Fair Game are must-haves for Bad Movie Night because they're hilarious.

-I think that Tsui Hark is an awful director.

-I don't think that Nancy Meyers has much talent (Something's Gotta Give had a good first act but the rest was awful, and It's Complicated had only two or three funny scenes, and another that would have been funny with better handling).

-I liked Deep Rising and Virus in a campy sort of way.

-I think that Christian Coulson was the most memorable thing about Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (he played Tom Riddle), and have been waiting for ten years to see him in another movie.
-I think that Brotherhood of the Wolf is a perfect movie.

I like Katherine Heigl and her films, but one actress I was never particularly fond of is Naomi Watts, she just dosen't do it for me some reason.

Speaking of which, I found the 2005 version of King Kong to be bloated mess of a film, it bored me to death, honestly i'd rather watch King Kong Lives.

I too liked Virus and Deep Rising, also liked Fair Game and Turbulence, though I didn't really laugh at them. One iflm I did laugh at is Battlefield Earth, I think it's enjoyable in a so-bad-it's-good way.

regarding Tsui Hark, did you only see his English films?(which I for one enjoyed) I've heard great things about Once Upon A Time In China and his other native films.

I really dug Scream 4, it was a considerable improvement over the dissapointing third entry.


Tue May 14, 2013 2:41 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
NotHughGrant wrote:
22. City of God is a mess and falls apart round about halfway through


Quote:
Not even a little. If anything, it gains more structure halfway through when it becomes a battle between Knockout Ned and Little Ze. But it's a masterpiece through and through.


I think you're getting lost in the "exotic otherness" of it all. DOn't get me wrong, I was entertained, but had it been set in New York or ... Springfield, you'd probably agree with me.


NotHughGrant wrote:
7. Crank 2 is one of the best films of the last decade


Quote:
Oh yeah, completely. Kicks the shit out of City of God.


You're comparing chalk with cheese.

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Tue May 14, 2013 5:35 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Ken wrote:

3. Who else thinks Platoon is just okay? Just me? Kunz? NotAboutABoy? MGamesAndTheBlueFlames? Anyone?



Me. I think I've mentioned before. Platoon is a typical 80s kinda film. In all honesty I find it hard to fully justiify what I even mean by that, but Platoon looks and sounds, and basically is to some extent, more of an 80s genre picture than a bona fide great film.

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Tue May 14, 2013 5:38 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
I love this thread, it's really lit a match under our collective ass.

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Tue May 14, 2013 5:45 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Vexer wrote:
Gladiator was a terrible film, but I don't really blame Crowe for that, personally I enjoy most of his other films.



I wouldn't say it's terrible, it's just a typical flawed Ridley Scott film, with a typically self-important and kind of dumb construction.

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Tue May 14, 2013 5:49 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
JamesKunz wrote:
H.I. McDonough wrote:


- Steven Spielberg will never be a great 'serious' dramatic filmmaker, as he too often falls back on sentimentality and other emotionally manipulative moments ("Munich" being the exception to the rule).


Schindler's List has an emotionally cathartic (you call it manipulative) moment. Munich doesn't. Schindler's List is a better movie.



I've grown to love Munich after being kind of cool on it initially.

There is a profound, almost hidden, passage in this film that I think it somewhat cathartic in its relevence.

Hopefully this falls under "fair usage" -

Quote:

Ali: Eventually the Arab states will rise against Israel– they don’t like the Palestinians, but they hate the Jews more. It won’t be like 1967, the rest of the world will see by then what the Israelis do to us, and they won’t help when Egypt and Syria attack. Even Jordan. Israel will cease to exist.

Avner: I guess. Only…

Ali: What?

Avner: This is a dream. You can’t take back a country you never had.

Ali: You sound like a Jew

Avner: (smiling) Fuck you. I’m the voice inside your head, telling you what you know is true. Your people have nothing to bargain with. You’ll never get the land back. You’ll all die, old men in refugee camps, waiting for ‘Palestine’.

Ali: (shrugs) We have a lot of children, they’ll have children, so we can wait forever, and, and… if we need to, we make the whole planet unsafe for Jews.

Avner: You kill Jews, and the world feels bad for them, and thinks you’re animals.

Ali: Yeah, but then the world will see how they’ve made us into animals. They’ll start to ask question about the conditions in our cages.

Avner: You’re Arabs. There are a lot of places for Arabs.

Ali: You’re a Jew sympathizer. All you Germans are soft on Israel, you give us money but you feel guilty about Hitler, and the Jews exploit your guilt. My father didn’t gas any Jews.

Avner: Tell me something, Ali.

Ali: What?

Avner: You really miss your father’s olive trees? The crappy village he came from? You honestly think you have to get back all that… nothing, chalky soil and stone huts? That’s what you want for your kids?

Ali: (looks directly into Avner’s eyes) It is. It abolutely is. It’ll take a hundred years, but we’ll win. How long did it take the Jews to get their own country? How long did it take the Germans to make Germany?

Avner: And look how well that worked out.

Ali: You don’t know what it is not to have a home. That’s why you European Reds don’t get it. You say it’s nothing, but you have a home to come back to. ETA, ANC, IRA, PLO- we all pretend we care about your “international revolution”. But we don’t care. We want to be nations. Home is everything


People may remember that the Mossad crew were pretending to be a leninist faction to keep the peace in their shared, sheltered accomodation.

This gets to the gist of the film in its entirity without being corny about it. Home (and the safety it implies) is everything, for everyone!

The messages in Munich aren't as obvious as those in Schindler's List. But they are there.

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Tue May 14, 2013 6:28 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
the thread where we air out unpopular opinions A.K.A. which of vexer's opinions do you agree with.


Tue May 14, 2013 6:47 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
NotHughGrant wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
22. City of God is a mess and falls apart round about halfway through


Quote:
Not even a little. If anything, it gains more structure halfway through when it becomes a battle between Knockout Ned and Little Ze. But it's a masterpiece through and through.


I think you're getting lost in the "exotic otherness" of it all. DOn't get me wrong, I was entertained, but had it been set in New York or ... Springfield, you'd probably agree with me.

/quote]

Goodfellas has no exotic otherness. It just, like City of God, is a tremendous crime movie with vivid characterization and amazing direction.

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Tue May 14, 2013 8:42 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Vexer wrote:
Ken wrote:
1. Opinions do require research. If your weather man and your plumber both have an opinion on what's wrong with your toilet, you know which one you're going to listen to.

2. Voicing an unpopular opinion in a thread about unpopular opinions doesn't necessarily protect said unpopular opinion from criticism. Several opinions have been called to task before now and I don't imagine that's going to change for you or anyone else.

3. Who else thinks Platoon is just okay? Just me? Kunz? NotAboutABoy? MGamesAndTheBlueFlames? Anyone?

I feel the same way about Platoon, I think it's just OK. I personally liked Hamburger Hill better.


Respectfully disagree on the Platoon part as I love that movie. But I agree that Hamburger Hill is underrated. I'd rank it and Casualties of War lower than Platoon. But ahead of Full Metal Jacket.

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Tue May 14, 2013 9:32 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Interesting thread. The first movie that comes to mind, on which I hold an opinion, which is highly unpopular in this forum, is ‘Inglorious Basterds’. I genuinely think that it is an awful movie at its core, from the idea to much of the execution, which is elevated to being quite watchable due to intermittent moments of pure genius. But it’s not a good movie at all.
Another unpopular opinion of mine: James Cameron is a technical pioneer, an expert action director and an overall competent filmmaker, but he is unimaginative and so mainstream that it hurts. If there is a choice between an original idea and a tried and trusted Hollywood cliché, Cameron always picks the latter. This is partially part of the scripts, which he chooses, but it extends to other aspects of his filmmaking.
On ‘Schindler’s List’:
Watching ‘Schindler’s List’ in the cinema was one of the most powerful and emotionally draining movie experiences I’ve had. It stunned me into silence. If someone had asked me about my opinion on it back then, I would have called it a masterpiece. I still kind of do whenever I remember the experience of watching it for the first time.
However, I watched it for a second time on TV some years later and started to think about the film rather than responding to it emotionally. And then it hit me: It is the wrong movie about the Holocaust and it could even be argued that it is in bad taste.
Now, Schindler’s List is very well-made in all aspects of moviemaking and I don’t mind repeating that it provokes a profound emotional response. But it shows the story of some 1,200 people being saved from genocide and, consequently, has a happy ending of sorts, which provides redemption for the protagonist and catharsis for the viewer, when the historically more important story - perhaps the only historically important story - is that six million Jews have been murdered on an industrial scale. I concede that the movie is historically accurate in telling a true life story as far as I can tell and that it is a story worth telling and remembering. However, ‘Schindler’s List’ has the ambition to be the definite Holocaust movie or it is at least discussed in those terms, although it focusses on the minor story of a survival of a few rather than the death of many. Further, the depiction of the (non-Jewish) German characters is decidedly uninteresting. The protagonist is a war profiteer who sees the light once he witnesses the atrocities in a concentration camp first hand and achieves redemption through saving others. His counterpart is a psychopath who kills and tortures for his personal pleasure. Again, both of the persons depicted in the film existed and their portrayal may well be accurate. But the interesting question about the Germans, who executed Hitler’s policy or who were aiding and abetting in the Holocaust, is how regular people from a culture with a long humanistic tradition could commit such atrocities or at least turn a blind eye to what was going on. ‘Schindler’s List’ doesn’t even address this topic, picking out a hero and a villain, who conform to the Hollywood mold. Finally, I would like to repeat a point made by Michael Haneke in a recent interview when he was asked about Steven Spielberg . (Haneke was very polite and trespectful in his statements on Spielberg, but you could read between the lines that he doesn’t appreciate the kinds of movies which Spielberg makes.) ‘Schindler’s List’ broke the cinematic taboo of explicitly showing what happened inside the gas chambers at Auschwitz, which looked a bit like showers. So Spielberg choses to show the Jewish victims as expecting to be led into showers and then suddenly realising what is about to happen to them. In doing so, he uses the techniques of making a suspense scene. Haneke has called this a Hollywoodisation of the Holocaust and, asked how he would film such a scene, said that he just wouldn’t. And you know what? He’s right.


Tue May 14, 2013 11:28 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
I'll have to check out Hamburger Hill.


Tue May 14, 2013 1:19 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Vexer wrote:
I don't really care for the Monty Python films


I could not disagree with you any more,

The Holy Grail.
Life of Brian.

These are the finest comedic films that have ever been made.
Because of this we have the following expressions

"What have the Romans ever done for us."
"Splitter"
"Run Away"
"I say you are Lord, and I should know. I've followed a few"
" He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy!"

"Matthias: Look, I don't think it should be a sin, just for saying "Jehovah".
[Everyone gasps]
Jewish Official: You're only making it worse for yourself!
Matthias: Making it worse? How can it be worse? Jehovah! Jehovah! Jehovah!
Jewish Official: I'm warning you! If you say "Jehovah" one more time (gets hit with rock) RIGHT! Who did that? Come on, who did it?
Stoners: She did! She did! (suddenly speaking as men) He! He did! He!
Jewish Official: Was it you?
Stoner: Yes.
Jewish Official: Right...
Stoner: Well you did say "Jehovah. "
[Crowd throws rocks at the stoner]
Jewish Official: STOP IT! STOP IT! STOP IT RIGHT NOW! STOP IT! All right, no one is to stone _anyone_ until I blow this whistle. Even... and I want to make this absolutely clear... even if they do say, "Jehovah. "
[Crowd stones the Jewish Official to death]"

"
Stan: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
Reg: But you can't have babies.
Stan: Don't you oppress me.
Reg: Where's the fetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?
"

"
French Soldier: I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
"

"
Sir Bedevere: What makes you think she's a witch?
Peasant 3: Well, she turned me into a newt!
Sir Bedevere: A newt?
Peasant 3: [meekly after a long pause] ... I got better.
Crowd: [shouts] Burn her anyway!
"

And i haven't even mentioned their individual works.
Fish called wanda,
Time bandits
Fawlty Towers the finest sitcom ever made

Monty Python is the best thing to ever happen to comedy.
Vexer I would urge you to really consider your views on Monty Python.


Tue May 14, 2013 2:26 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Unke wrote:
On ‘Schindler’s List’:
Watching ‘Schindler’s List’ in the cinema was one of the most powerful and emotionally draining movie experiences I’ve had. It stunned me into silence. If someone had asked me about my opinion on it back then, I would have called it a masterpiece. I still kind of do whenever I remember the experience of watching it for the first time.
However, I watched it for a second time on TV some years later and started to think about the film rather than responding to it emotionally. And then it hit me: It is the wrong movie about the Holocaust and it could even be argued that it is in bad taste.
Now, Schindler’s List is very well-made in all aspects of moviemaking and I don’t mind repeating that it provokes a profound emotional response. But it shows the story of some 1,200 people being saved from genocide and, consequently, has a happy ending of sorts, which provides redemption for the protagonist and catharsis for the viewer, when the historically more important story - perhaps the only historically important story - is that six million Jews have been murdered on an industrial scale. I concede that the movie is historically accurate in telling a true life story as far as I can tell and that it is a story worth telling and remembering. However, ‘Schindler’s List’ has the ambition to be the definite Holocaust movie or it is at least discussed in those terms, although it focusses on the minor story of a survival of a few rather than the death of many. Further, the depiction of the (non-Jewish) German characters is decidedly uninteresting. The protagonist is a war profiteer who sees the light once he witnesses the atrocities in a concentration camp first hand and achieves redemption through saving others. His counterpart is a psychopath who kills and tortures for his personal pleasure. Again, both of the persons depicted in the film existed and their portrayal may well be accurate. But the interesting question about the Germans, who executed Hitler’s policy or who were aiding and abetting in the Holocaust, is how regular people from a culture with a long humanistic tradition could commit such atrocities or at least turn a blind eye to what was going on. ‘Schindler’s List’ doesn’t even address this topic, picking out a hero and a villain, who conform to the Hollywood mold. Finally, I would like to repeat a point made by Michael Haneke in a recent interview when he was asked about Steven Spielberg . (Haneke was very polite and trespectful in his statements on Spielberg, but you could read between the lines that he doesn’t appreciate the kinds of movies which Spielberg makes.) ‘Schindler’s List’ broke the cinematic taboo of explicitly showing what happened inside the gas chambers at Auschwitz, which looked a bit like showers. So Spielberg choses to show the Jewish victims as expecting to be led into showers and then suddenly realising what is about to happen to them. In doing so, he uses the techniques of making a suspense scene. Haneke has called this a Hollywoodisation of the Holocaust and, asked how he would film such a scene, said that he just wouldn’t. And you know what? He’s right.

Hello Unke,
This is a fine response.
How and ever, I would offer the following response as to why a scene would be neccessary.
the purpose of any film is as follows
1: to entertain. This is the most important purpose of any film. no matter what message it has if the film has not entertained, then it has predominately failed. This is perhaps why the suspense was needed for Schindler's List.


Tue May 14, 2013 2:46 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
P604-My mom and sister like the Python films, but they certainly wouldn't call them the "finest comedic films ever made" Just because I don't like those films DOES NOT mean I have to "re-consider my views", humor is subjective, not EVERYONE worships at the altar of Monty Python, "best thing to happen to comedy"? Yeah, I don't think so.

I also did not find A Fish Called Wanda or Time Bandits very funny and I was dumbfounded by JB's 4 star review of the former, there's dozens of comedies i'd rather watch.

As for Fawlty Towers, it was OK I guess, but for the most part it's just not my type of humor, I prefer sitcoms like New Girl, Cougar Town, 2 Broke Girls, Married With Children, King Of Queens, Still Standing, Grounded For Life, Yes Dear, etc.

For unpopular opinions about TV shows, I'm not really big on Cheers or Seinfeld.


Tue May 14, 2013 3:10 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
p604 wrote:
Fawlty Towers the finest sitcom ever made

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image

That show needed way more than 12 episodes. Hilarious stuff. I'm a big fan of British comedy, and Fawlty is definitely high on my list of the all-time greats.


Tue May 14, 2013 4:32 pm
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