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The thread where we air out unpopular opinions 
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
nitrium wrote:
However, not ONLY Jews were treated like animals in WW2 (my own mother for instance).


Oh God we're getting into misery competitions now? So pointless. "Sure people of the X type suffered, but so did my Y people!" Ugh.

NotHughGrant wrote:
22. City of God is a mess and falls apart round about halfway through


Not even a little. If anything, it gains more structure halfway through when it becomes a battle between Knockout Ned and Little Ze. But it's a masterpiece through and through.

NotHughGrant wrote:
17. Russell Crowe can't act outside the remit of Gladiator and thugs in general


I agree KIND OF. Russell Crowe is a throwback -- he's a brute, a completely physical actor. When he's allowed to showcase that (e.g. L.A. Confidential, Gladiator, Master and Commander) he's magnificent. When he's not, he's poor.

NotHughGrant wrote:
7. Crank 2 is one of the best films of the last decade


Oh yeah, completely. Kicks the shit out of City of God.

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Mon May 13, 2013 4:57 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
JamesKunz wrote:
Oh God we're getting into misery competitions now? So pointless. "Sure people of the X type suffered, but so did my Y people!" Ugh.

That argument probably also crosses the line between "criticism of the movie that was made" and "criticizing it based on one's vision of a movie that wasn't made".

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Mon May 13, 2013 4:59 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Ken wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
Oh God we're getting into misery competitions now? So pointless. "Sure people of the X type suffered, but so did my Y people!" Ugh.

That argument probably also crosses the line between "criticism of the movie that was made" and "criticizing it based on one's vision of a movie that wasn't made".


Seriously. Saying that Schindler's List should be docked points for not focusing enough on the persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses is like saying that The Godfather suffers from not featuring Mickey Cohen.

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Mon May 13, 2013 5:06 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
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7. Crank 2 is one of the best films of the last decade


Yes!


Mon May 13, 2013 5:08 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
JamesKunz wrote:
Ken wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
Oh God we're getting into misery competitions now? So pointless. "Sure people of the X type suffered, but so did my Y people!" Ugh.

That argument probably also crosses the line between "criticism of the movie that was made" and "criticizing it based on one's vision of a movie that wasn't made".


Seriously. Saying that Schindler's List should be docked points for not focusing enough on the persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses is like saying that The Godfather suffers from not featuring Mickey Cohen.

I don't think you guys fully followed what I was trying to say in my post. You asked what was so Oscar Baity about Schindler's List, and I present that the entire movie is Oscar Bait - simply due to the demographics of The Academy. i.e. By presenting only Jewish atrocities this merely piles on the Oscar Bait even thicker. That didn't NEED to be the case, since there was plenty of atrocity to go round for everyone involved in that godforsaken war, but focussing on the Jewish plight is nonetheless what Spielberg elected to do - and that IS imo Oscar Baiting. And to be sure, I am not remotely suggesting that he is not allowed to make the film he wanted here - even if this does make it sound like it!
I guess I misunderstood this is as "The thread where we air out unpopular opinions", not the thread where we denigrate one another. There are plenty of places I can find that on the internet, and I didn't really expect to find it here.


Mon May 13, 2013 7:41 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
nitrium wrote:
I don't think you guys fully followed what I was trying to say in my post. You asked what was so Oscar Baity about Schindler's List, and I present that the entire movie is Oscar Bait - simply due to the demographics of The Academy. i.e. By presenting only Jewish atrocities this merely piles on the Oscar Bait even thicker. That didn't NEED to be the case, since there was plenty of atrocity to go round for everyone involved in that godforsaken war, but focussing on the Jewish plight is nonetheless what Spielberg elected to do - and that IS imo Oscar Baiting. And to be sure, I am not remotely suggesting that he is not allowed to make the film he wanted here - even if this does make it sound like it!
I guess I misunderstood this is as "The thread where we air out unpopular opinions", not the thread where we denigrate one another. There are plenty of places I can find that on the internet, and I didn't really expect to find it here.




We didn't "denigrate" you at all. If you can't handle mild, non-personal disagreement with your points, then you should withdraw from the internet.

Now, as to your point. I like it even less the more you explain it.

"By presenting only Jewish atrocities this merely piles on the Oscar bait even thicker."

Leaving aside the fact that they were German atrocities, you do realize that the focus of the Holocaust was the destruction of European Jewry, correct? There were roughly 9 million victims of the Holocaust, of whom 6 million were Jewish. Jews and Gypsies were the only two groups actively targeted for extermination, and there were far more Jews. Therefore, Jews are the main story of the Holocaust. Saying any movie about the Holocaust is Oscar bait because the Academy is made up of a bunch of Jews is absurd, prima facie.

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Mon May 13, 2013 7:53 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Gladiator was a terrible film, but I don't really blame Crowe for that, personally I enjoy most of his other films.


Mon May 13, 2013 7:55 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Regarding Schindler's List....

My father refuses to watch this movie because he finds the content too emotional. Oscars and awards have nothing to do with it. My grandmother (on his side of the family) is Jewish, so I'm sure this plays some part in it. I'm reminded of Roger Ebert's praise for the movie Shame, where he said in a four-star review "This is a great act of filmmaking and acting. I don't believe I would be able to see it twice." I know many who feel the same way about Schindler's List.

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Mon May 13, 2013 8:00 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
KWRoss wrote:
Regarding Schindler's List....

My father refuses to watch this movie because he finds the content too emotional. Oscars and awards have nothing to do with it. My grandmother (on his side of the family) is Jewish, so I'm sure this plays some part in it. I'm reminded of Roger Ebert's praise for the movie Shame, where he said in a four-star review "This is a great act of filmmaking and acting. I don't believe I would be able to see it twice." I know many who feel the same way about Schindler's List.

That's pretty much how I feel about it, I won't dispute that it's a great film. But I'd rather not sit through it a second time.


Mon May 13, 2013 8:17 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
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I guess I misunderstood this is as "The thread where we air out unpopular opinions", not the thread where we denigrate one another. There are plenty of places I can find that on the internet, and I didn't really expect to find it here.


right, poor you. you keep fighting the good fight. I mean why would anyone have a problem with these gems of insight(based on some actual research I'm sure, not just tired stereotypes)

Quote:
And every scene that showcases Nazi atrocities against Jews can be viewed as an Oscar-bait moment, when you consider the number of Jewish (or descendants thereof) members of the academy


Quote:
and I present that the entire movie is Oscar Bait - simply due to the demographics of The Academy



I don't believe there is a list of all academy members anywhere btw. man it never ends...
do you have a theory why it took so long for a Holocaust themed movie to have any success with the Academy(since we've established the complete racial & ethnic breakdown of the Academy members)? or why Hollywood so rarely greenlit any Holocaust movies prior to Schindler's? Oscar bait, right...


Last edited by calvero on Mon May 13, 2013 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon May 13, 2013 8:44 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
JamesKunz wrote:
Leaving aside the fact that they were German atrocities, you do realize that the focus of the Holocaust was the destruction of European Jewry, correct? There were roughly 9 million victims of the Holocaust, of whom 6 million were Jewish. Jews and Gypsies were the only two groups actively targeted for extermination, and there were far more Jews. Therefore, Jews are the main story of the Holocaust. Saying any movie about the Holocaust is Oscar bait because the Academy is made up of a bunch of Jews is absurd, prima facie.


Erm, as you say earlier, let's not play the opresion olympics, but seriously, the Jews and the Gypsies were not the only groups targeted for extermination. The list is actually quite a bit longer. It included disabled people, gay men, people of color, Jehova Witnesses, etc. I don't blame Speilberg for focusing on the struggles of the Jews, as I presume those that Schindler saved were overwhelmingly Jewish and that was the story he elected to tell. It isn't innacurate as far as I know, but let's not generalize too much shall we about the rest of the Holocaust? Again, I don't really want to get into opression olympic mode but if only Jews/Gypsies were targeted, why did gay men have a higher death rate of those who were sent to concentration camps?
-Jeremy

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Mon May 13, 2013 8:54 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
calvero wrote:
Quote:
I guess I misunderstood this is as "The thread where we air out unpopular opinions", not the thread where we denigrate one another. There are plenty of places I can find that on the internet, and I didn't really expect to find it here.


right, poor you. you keep fighting the good fight. I mean why would anyone have a problem with these gems of insight(based on some actual research I'm sure, not just tired stereotypes)

Quote:
And every scene that showcases Nazi atrocities against Jews can be viewed as an Oscar-bait moment, when you consider the number of Jewish (or descendants thereof) members of the academy


Quote:
and I present that the entire movie is Oscar Bait - simply due to the demographics of The Academy



I don't believe there is a list of all academy members anywhere btw. man it never ends...


Man, I never would have thought saying "Schindler's List is overrated" and "Oscar Bait" would strike such raw nerves. It is starting to dawn on me that these statements are simply TOO UNPOPULAR for the "The thread where we air out unpopular opinions"! I also never realized that opinions required research either, but I'm learning something new everyday here. But here you go: http://www.jewishjournal.com/hollywoodj ... of_a_minor
"I’m not sure what all the fuss is about since the academy is probably “overwhelmingly” Jewish, which, last I checked, is still considered a minority group."


Mon May 13, 2013 8:57 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
1. Opinions do require research. If your weather man and your plumber both have an opinion on what's wrong with your toilet, you know which one you're going to listen to.

2. Voicing an unpopular opinion in a thread about unpopular opinions doesn't necessarily protect said unpopular opinion from criticism. Several opinions have been called to task before now and I don't imagine that's going to change for you or anyone else.

3. Who else thinks Platoon is just okay? Just me? Kunz? NotAboutABoy? MGamesAndTheBlueFlames? Anyone?

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Mon May 13, 2013 9:11 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
thered47 wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
Leaving aside the fact that they were German atrocities, you do realize that the focus of the Holocaust was the destruction of European Jewry, correct? There were roughly 9 million victims of the Holocaust, of whom 6 million were Jewish. Jews and Gypsies were the only two groups actively targeted for extermination, and there were far more Jews. Therefore, Jews are the main story of the Holocaust. Saying any movie about the Holocaust is Oscar bait because the Academy is made up of a bunch of Jews is absurd, prima facie.


Erm, as you say earlier, let's not play the opresion olympics, but seriously, the Jews and the Gypsies were not the only groups targeted for extermination. The list is actually quite a bit longer. It included disabled people, gay men, people of color, Jehova Witnesses, etc. I don't blame Speilberg for focusing on the struggles of the Jews, as I presume those that Schindler saved were overwhelmingly Jewish and that was the story he elected to tell. It isn't innacurate as far as I know, but let's not generalize too much shall we about the rest of the Holocaust? Again, I don't really want to get into opression olympic mode but if only Jews/Gypsies were targeted, why did gay men have a higher death rate of those who were sent to concentration camps?
-Jeremy


You're missing a lot here. First of all, it is important to distinguish between death camps and concentration camps. Homosexuals were not sent to the death camps, ergo they were not targeted for extermination. Of those homosexuals arrested by the Nazis, only a small majority were sent to concentration camps, and again, none to the death camps.

But yeah, none of this has absolutely anything to do with Schindler's List. Not only were the Jews the primary focus of the Holocaust, but (as you say) Schindler wasn't saving gay people.

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Mon May 13, 2013 9:12 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
nitrium wrote:

Man, I never would have thought saying "Schindler's List is overrated" and "Oscar Bait" would strike such raw nerves. It is starting to dawn on me that these statements are simply TOO UNPOPULAR for the "The thread where we air out unpopular opinions"! I also never realized that opinions required research either, but I'm learning something new everyday here. But here you go: http://www.jewishjournal.com/hollywoodj ... of_a_minor
"I’m not sure what all the fuss is about since the academy is probably “overwhelmingly” Jewish, which, last I checked, is still considered a minority group."


You're not touching a nerve, man, you're just making really, really odd statements.

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Mon May 13, 2013 9:14 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
The subject matter of "Schindler's List" was probably a little too heavy for it to be considered true Oscar bait (it has to try to please everyone, remember). Still, Spielberg tried to make it go down a bit easier than it probably should have.

I do agree with nitrium that "Schindler's List" is overrated, but more in the sense that 'no way is it one of the 10 best films ever made, as AFI seems to think.' :| And it's still way better than "Saving Private Ryan." But, I'm sorry, the whole 'I could've gotten more' scene has just never rung true for me.


Last edited by H.I. McDonough on Mon May 13, 2013 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon May 13, 2013 9:23 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
JamesKunz wrote:
You're not touching a nerve, man, you're just making really, really odd statements.

Which ones, precisely? I'm guessing perhaps my admittedly non-conventional use of the term "Oscar Bait" in regards to Schindler's List given that it is solely about heinous crimes committed against Jews and the Academy is in all likelihood stacked with folks of Jewish descent? Do you find that statement to be somehow anti-Semitic maybe? I assure you I am not. Anyway, I'm going to let this rest. We'll agree to disagree. Opinions are only that: opinions.


Last edited by nitrium on Mon May 13, 2013 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon May 13, 2013 9:25 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Ken wrote:
1. Opinions do require research. If your weather man and your plumber both have an opinion on what's wrong with your toilet, you know which one you're going to listen to.

2. Voicing an unpopular opinion in a thread about unpopular opinions doesn't necessarily protect said unpopular opinion from criticism. Several opinions have been called to task before now and I don't imagine that's going to change for you or anyone else.

3. Who else thinks Platoon is just okay? Just me? Kunz? NotAboutABoy? MGamesAndTheBlueFlames? Anyone?

I feel the same way about Platoon, I think it's just OK. I personally liked Hamburger Hill better.


Mon May 13, 2013 9:29 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
nitrium wrote:
Man, I never would have thought saying "Schindler's List is overrated" and "Oscar Bait" would strike such raw nerves. It is starting to dawn on me that these statements are simply TOO UNPOPULAR for the "The thread where we air out unpopular opinions"! I also never realized that opinions required research either, but I'm learning something new everyday here. But here you go: http://www.jewishjournal.com/hollywoodj ... of_a_minor
"I’m not sure what all the fuss is about since the academy is probably “overwhelmingly” Jewish, which, last I checked, is still considered a minority group."


Your quote is an assumption by the author that's not backed up by any evidence.

There’s nothing wrong with thinking that Schindler’s List, or any movie for that matter, is overrated. But you’re reasoning behind it just seems kind of bizarre to me. I know we’re talking about Schindler’s List, but are you really, genuinely arguing about the number of Jews in the Academy? That’s crazy.

Oh, and my unpopular opinion would be that the terms “overrated” and “Oscar bait” are overused and dumb.


Mon May 13, 2013 9:31 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
nitrium wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
You're not touching a nerve, man, you're just making really, really odd statements.

Which ones, precisely? I'm guessing perhaps my admittedly non-conventional use of the term "Oscar Bait" in regards to Schindler's List given that it is solely about heinous crimes committed against Jews and the Academy is in all likelihood stacked with folks of Jewish descent? Do you find that statement to be somehow anti-Semitic maybe? Anyway, I'm willing to let it rest. We'll agree to disagree. Opinions are only that: opinions.


"The academy's membership is made up mainly of men. Despite the fact that women participated in World War II, Saving Private Ryan focuses exclusively on men. Therefore, it is Oscar bait."

Does that point not seem weird to you?

The part that's so odd about your statement is that essentially every Holocaust film, made in the US or abroad, major filmmaker or minor filmmaker, big project or small, focuses on the experience of the Jews. Thus, singling out Schindler's List as being "Oscar bait" because it focuses on Jews is as absurd as my statement above.

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Mon May 13, 2013 9:33 pm
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