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Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase... 
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Johnny Larue wrote:
Again, more noble sentiments. But reality, and history, are on my side on this one. Personally, if I was determined to vote 3rd party, then I would probably just stay home and save myself the drive and wait in line. The results will be the same regardless my course of action: my guy or gal will lose. By bowing to reality, I at least get the satisfaction of casting my vote for the least offensive weasel running and seeing that weasel beat the more offensive weasel. It may be a tiny victory to be sure, but it beats certain defeat every time. (Again...just my personal 2 cents after 25 years of going to the voting both. At the end of the day, it's your vote to do, or not do, what you will.)

This appears to be a philosophical difference. I can tell you that the only presidential vote I've ever wasted in my life was on John Kerry, and it had nothing to do with the fact that he lost.

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Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:56 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Ken wrote:
Johnny Larue wrote:
Again, more noble sentiments. But reality, and history, are on my side on this one. Personally, if I was determined to vote 3rd party, then I would probably just stay home and save myself the drive and wait in line. The results will be the same regardless my course of action: my guy or gal will lose. By bowing to reality, I at least get the satisfaction of casting my vote for the least offensive weasel running and seeing that weasel beat the more offensive weasel. It may be a tiny victory to be sure, but it beats certain defeat every time. (Again...just my personal 2 cents after 25 years of going to the voting both. At the end of the day, it's your vote to do, or not do, what you will.)

This appears to be a philosophical difference. I can tell you that the only presidential vote I've ever wasted in my life was on John Kerry, and it had nothing to do with the fact that he lost.

Even though I shared Kerry's beliefs, I couldn't generate much enthusiasm for him.


Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:37 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Speaking of guns, has everyone seen this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6m0NAq6RDk

53 seconds in... I love the way she winks as she fires it.

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Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:28 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
NotHughGrant wrote:
Speaking of guns, has everyone seen this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6m0NAq6RDk

53 seconds in... I love the way she winks as she fires it.

I hate it when people try to blame movies for "promoting" violence, ugh :roll:

Here's the episode of Penn And Teller BS on Gun Control:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhXOuuHcjbs


Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:49 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Whether or not you think they promote violence can be ignored for the time being.

Either way there is a hypocrisy here that should be acknowledged.

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Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:35 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
NotHughGrant wrote:
Either way there is a hypocrisy here that should be acknowledged.


Maybe you could help me acknowledge this hypocrisy?

Quote:
Hypocrisy: The practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.


These people are actors, who take on characters to perform on screen. That's their profession. That a number of the roles may require them to operate firearms doesn't constitute hypocrisy.

If an actor plays a Nazi, does that make them hypocrites for opposing the views of Hitler? If an actor plays a king, does it make them a hypocrite for being an anti-monarchist? And if an actor plays a character who is required to use a fire-arm, does that make them a hypocrite for wanting tougher gun-control laws?

Of course not! The video poses one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard. Not to mention that a lot of the clips feature characters in police or military roles, where they are required and legally justified to use lethal force. A shitty clip show with no context or insight is a pretty poor argument for hypocrisy. Not saying that the actors are patrons of virtue (I'm sure many of them are hypocrites), but it's important to have the ability to disassociate the individuals from the fictional roles they play.


Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:51 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Awkward Beard Man wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
Either way there is a hypocrisy here that should be acknowledged.


Maybe you could help me acknowledge this hypocrisy?

Quote:
Hypocrisy: The practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.


These people are actors, who take on characters to perform on screen. That's their profession. That a number of the roles may require them to operate firearms doesn't constitute hypocrisy.

If an actor plays a Nazi, does that make them hypocrites for opposing the views of Hitler? If an actor plays a king, does it make them a hypocrite for being an anti-monarchist? And if an actor plays a character who is required to use a fire-arm, does that make them a hypocrite for wanting tougher gun-control laws?

Of course not! The video poses one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard. Not to mention that a lot of the clips feature characters in police or military roles, where they are required and legally justified to use lethal force. A shitty clip show with no context or insight is a pretty poor argument for hypocrisy. Not saying that the actors are patrons of virtue (I'm sure many of them are hypocrites), but it's important to have the ability to disassociate the individuals from the fictional roles they play.

Agreed 100%, I see no such hypocrisy in someone like Stallone being in favor of gun-control despite portraying violent characters.

A good example of a hypocrite is in another episode of Bullshit(the one about video games), one guy believes violent video games turn people into murderers, yet he happens to be a huge gun nut who dosen't even know how to properly handle a firearm.


Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:05 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Awkward Beard Man wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
Either way there is a hypocrisy here that should be acknowledged.


Maybe you could help me acknowledge this hypocrisy?

Quote:
Hypocrisy: The practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.


These people are actors, who take on characters to perform on screen. That's their profession. That a number of the roles may require them to operate firearms doesn't constitute hypocrisy.

If an actor plays a Nazi, does that make them hypocrites for opposing the views of Hitler? If an actor plays a king, does it make them a hypocrite for being an anti-monarchist? And if an actor plays a character who is required to use a fire-arm, does that make them a hypocrite for wanting tougher gun-control laws?


If we had a large movement to instill a monarchy in this country, or the Nazi party was in the news daily, you might be on to something. But I don't think it's a giant leap to say that how an actor allows themselves to be portrayed for a paycheck and how they then come out on this issue or that is not at some level a form of hypocrisy. It would be one thing if they took an anti-gun stance and then never took on such a role again; I'd respect that. But to go on record as saying we need more gun laws, and then to go on screen and portray a "hero" who excessively uses guns doesn't play well. It would be like Ron Jeremy coming out for abstinence before marriage. I wouldn't buy that either.


Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:10 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Johnny Larue wrote:
It would be like Ron Jeremy coming out for abstinence before marriage. I wouldn't buy that either.


But Ron Jeremy actually fucks people for money. It may come as a surprise, but the guns in movies, they're fake guns. No one actually gets shot, no one actually dies. It's an illusion for the sake of story-telling.

I guess here's another question for you. Would it make me a hypocrite to like violent action movies (often involving the use of firearms), but to also take a stance for tighter gun control laws? Is the ability to disassociate fantasy from reality inherently hypocritical? And if not, then why should actors be held to account and not the consumers of this media?


Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:34 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Awkward Beard Man wrote:
Johnny Larue wrote:
It would be like Ron Jeremy coming out for abstinence before marriage. I wouldn't buy that either.


But Ron Jeremy actually fucks people for money. It may come as a surprise, but the guns in movies, they're fake guns. No one actually gets shot, no one actually dies. It's an illusion for the sake of story-telling.

I guess here's another question for you. Would it make me a hypocrite to like violent action movies (often involving the use of firearms), but to also take a stance for tighter gun control laws? Is the ability to disassociate fantasy from reality inherently hypocritical? And if not, then why should actors be held to account and not the consumers of this media?

The debate here reminds me of this scene:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL0SILzGs4g


Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:10 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Let me get this straight vex and ABM - there is no hypocrisy in Jamie Foxx saying "no" to guns whilst boasting about "killing all the white people".

Okay then.

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Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:51 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
True.

As we all know, notorious white person killer Jamie Foxx prefers to kill his white victims by bludgeoning them with bags of fair trade coffee, and with the occasional Toyota Prius hit-and-run. Sadly, he was infected with a sense of irony at an early age, which is one of the many axes he has to grind with white people.

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Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:09 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
NotHughGrant wrote:
Let me get this straight vex and ABM - there is no hypocrisy in Jamie Foxx saying "no" to guns whilst boasting about "killing all the white people".

Okay then.


That wasn't really the point I was arguing, and that scene is kind of the outlier in that video. I don't have any context to that specific clip, but I assume it was part of some stand-up routine. This is where it gets kinda different, because stand-up comedy isn't always acting (unless the whole point is to take on a different persona). But I assume what Jamie Foxx was saying was meant to be taken as a joke (whether it's successful or not is an entirely different matter). Showing just that quote without any additional context doesn't help matters either. But Jamie Foxx said those words as himself, not a movie character, so yeah he does have a greater responsibility in how those words are received. But besides that sole exception, the rest of my argument still stands.

And besides, white people? Fuck those guys.


Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:16 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Oh FFS, Beard Man. You're not one of those self-hating liberal types are you?

And your Nazi comparison earlier on doesn't stand up. No-one in their right mind thinks that, say, Ralph Fiennes was gloryfying Amon Goth in Schindler's List. But winking at the camara before you cut someone in half with a machine gun and then having the balls to lecture the prole masses on the use of guns takes the f*cking the cake to be honest.

I'll clarify my point - I'm not against, for a moment, actors taking on whatever role they please. I don't care if an actor chooses to play a 6-feet tall gun that speaks in bullets... just don't f*cking patronise me with shitty anti-firearms vidoes afterwards.

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Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:15 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Nope, I love love myself more than you'd possibly believe :p

I don't know what the whole liberal line has to do with anything. Then again I live in the country where the Liberal Party is the conservative party, so it's all rather confusing...

But anyways it's clear that we won't see eye to eye on this, so I propose we both mutually declare the other man wrong and smugly claim our respective victories!


Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:41 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
I'm not claiming victory. I was just saying -

Quote:
I'm not against, for a moment, actors taking on whatever role they please. I don't care if an actor chooses to play a 6-feet tall gun that speaks in bullets... just don't f*cking patronise me with shitty anti-firearms vidoes afterwards.


Which I don't think is too much to ask.

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Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:48 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
To which I would say that an actor should be able to support whatever cause they like, regardless of the films they star in.

Then again I'm the kind of person who supports a price on carbon even though I work for the mining industry (its most vocal opponent). So I guess I'm full of hypocrisies.

But anyways, you ideologically disagree with my argument, and I ideologically disagree with yours. You see hypocrisy where I see none. And that's not likely to change because of the differing ways we perceive the world. So I'm just going to do what I said I was going to do. You're wrong, victory is mine!


Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:09 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Awkward Beard Man wrote:
Then again I'm the kind of person who supports a price on carbon even though I work for the mining industry (its most vocal opponent). So I guess I'm full of hypocrisies.


You just know which side your bread is buttered, is all. And your contradicting beliefs are just a luxury your first-world economy and top 0.1% lifestyle allows you.

It's fine to f*ck for celibacy; eat for hunger; fly for the environment, etc, as long as you don't lose sight of this fact. Hypocrisy is a wonderful luxury, and these actors (with their bodyguards and gated community homes) are the most privileged people on earth.

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Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:30 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Awkward Beard Man wrote:
I guess here's another question for you. Would it make me a hypocrite to like violent action movies (often involving the use of firearms), but to also take a stance for tighter gun control laws? Is the ability to disassociate fantasy from reality inherently hypocritical? And if not, then why should actors be held to account and not the consumers of this media?


Ah...but there's the rub. There are those who argue that violence in movies, TV, music and video games are acting as a catalyst to some of today's violence. For the vast majority of the public they DO disassociate the fantasy from the reality, but there is a segment of the population that don't. And it doesn't have to be a blunt association, but can affect people in subtle ways such as desensitizing them to violence in a large, or small, scale.

You can discount that opinion, but I don't think you can outright dismiss it. So, again, I do not think it is a large stretch to say that if an actor comes out against gun violence in society, then they shouldn't choose roles that glorify it on the big screen.


Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:59 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Johnny Larue wrote:
Awkward Beard Man wrote:
I guess here's another question for you. Would it make me a hypocrite to like violent action movies (often involving the use of firearms), but to also take a stance for tighter gun control laws? Is the ability to disassociate fantasy from reality inherently hypocritical? And if not, then why should actors be held to account and not the consumers of this media?


Ah...but there's the rub. There are those who argue that violence in movies, TV, music and video games are acting as a catalyst to some of today's violence. For the vast majority of the public they DO disassociate the fantasy from the reality, but there is a segment of the population that don't. And it doesn't have to be a blunt association, but can affect people in subtle ways such as desensitizing them to violence in a large, or small, scale.

You can discount that opinion, but I don't think you can outright dismiss it. So, again, I do not think it is a large stretch to say that if an actor comes out against gun violence in society, then they shouldn't choose roles that glorify it on the big screen.
Well the very low percentage of people that supposedly DO get affected by onscreen violence are unstable individuals whose violent impulses can be triggered by ANYTHING, even if they don't see any onscreen violence, sooner or later they will likely end up snapping one way or another. I blame those Pharmaceutical companies that market drugs with dangerous side-effects and the people that try to shove prescriptions onto people that don't need them, somthing many schools are guilty of doing, at my high school, one member of the school staff talked about putting me on Prozac, my mom wouldn't have any of that, she gave them a piece of her mind and they never tried to prescribe me anything ever again. I'm a well adjusted individual, but if I was prescribed Prozac, who knows what might've happened?

This video echoes how I feel on the subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M242BWd7NXc&feature=youtu.be


Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:11 pm
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