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Looper Nitpick/Plot Hole Thread -- Spoilers Abound 
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Post Re: Looper Nitpick/Plot Hole Thread -- Spoilers Abound
I enjoyed the film well enough, I just wasn't blown away like JB and Ebert were. Admittedly it wasn't until after I saw the film that I noticed the inconsistencies, they're not a huge deal, but they do detract from the film somewhat.


Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:40 pm
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Post Re: Looper Nitpick/Plot Hole Thread -- Spoilers Abound
Watched it yesterday. 3.5 stars for me. The "time travel" aspect is kept broadly sketched as the director seemed to not get bogged down in details, but I thought it could have benefited more from a little bit of explaining. I can find logical explanations for all the "plotholes/nitpicks" mentioned in this thread, but yeah, the movie almost veers too much into "too broad" as to become its own plot hole.

As for my version of the cause and effect of present and future selves and how they can still end up together even when one is changed physically, I see it as two of them being two nodes with a line (representing timeline) connecting them. When the future one time-travels to another, the nodes are brought close next to each other, and the line circles back and become a "loop." When the young is affected, it vibrates from that node through the line to the old self (scars on the arm etc.), but when the node is taken out , it is also sent through the line, and then the other node is gone too. But the line (timeline) is still there. The "loop" remains, albeit without the nodes. Like someone said above, they affect each other in the present moment together, but what it takes in between to go there still remains.


Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:53 pm
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Post Re: Looper Nitpick/Plot Hole Thread -- Spoilers Abound
That was awesome! The last time I felt like this for a film was when I saw Inception. Those kind of entertainers just makes me feel good about watching films in general. Obviously a lot of the films minor picky points have been picked apart in this and the film thread, but I wanted to answer one thing which I felt regarding a nitpick raised in the film thread.

People are questioning that the loop of the rainmaker becoming evil isn't established the first time around because Old Joe hasn't killed Sara yet. However, my opinion is that the film doesn't "definitively" state that so long as the rainmaker grows up with his mom, he'll turn out to be good. Sara simply "hopes" that she can make him control his powers (as happened in the field scene) and turn him out to be a good guy. In the original reality, she "mightn't" have been able to make him control and he could've turned out to be evil (a la the rainmaker) irrespective of her presence or not. In the present reality also (the one established at the end with the death of Joe), it is a simply a hope that she can make him do good with his powers and not something that is definitive.

Anyways, I am just trying to provide the answer to that particular nitpick that he becomes the rainmaker in the original reality.

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Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:51 pm
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Post Re: Looper Nitpick/Plot Hole Thread -- Spoilers Abound
JamesKunz wrote:
I liked Looper a good deal. I'm betting most people whose names don't rhyme with ShmickShmamesSmook did too. But you gotta admit, a premise as out-there as Looper's doesn't really lend itself to scrutiny. So let's scrutinize it! Any nags, nitpicks, and complaints you have can go here so as not to detract from higher-level discussion of the film elsewhere.

So for me...

Time travel is not the same as spatial travel. So how does Bruce Willis get put into a time machine in Shanghai and end up in Kansas?
What do you guys have?


You linked to this, I'm bored, so here goes ...

Brucey Boy also endured this in The 12 Monkeys, when he was sent back to 1914. But not back to a random street in Mexico, a small Chinese town, or the middle of the Pacific Ocean. No, he happens to land right in the middle of WWI. Fancy that, it's bad luck going back to the wrong year, but holy cow, talk about ending up in the wrong place too!

This kind of plot hole is actually even spoke of directly in the film. One of the extras says to Brucy "you're lucky you didn't end up in Ancient Egypt". Hmmm, don't you mean I was lucky I didn't end up in roughly the same time period as Ancient Egypt...but geographically somewhere else...because the chances of going back to the time of Ancient Egypt and actually ending up in Egypt are remote to say the least.

History and geography are confusing I guess.

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Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:37 am
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Post Re: Looper Nitpick/Plot Hole Thread -- Spoilers Abound
I suppose the simplest answer is that if he didn't end up in an important place right when something important was happening, it wouldn't be a very exciting movie.

Then there's the Alan Moore theory, which states that there are pieces of time and geography that stick out as more psychically "important" than others that give history its shape.

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Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:03 pm
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Post Re: Looper Nitpick/Plot Hole Thread -- Spoilers Abound
But the chances of landing in that shape-giving geography remain rather remote.

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Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:48 pm
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Post Re: Looper Nitpick/Plot Hole Thread -- Spoilers Abound
Therein lies the thrust of the theory. Alan Moore is a proponent of psychogeography--the idea that a place and a time has a psychic resonance, and that some are imprinted with a special power. A particular point in time and space might just be the node around which swirls a whole galaxy of important historical events. His book, From Hell (not the terrible movie based on it) is all about how the Whitechapel murders spread out like ripples in a pool, around the world and back in time as far as the birth of Hitler and as far forward as the present day. Moore views them as the flame that lit the fuse of the 20th century, and he believes that Whitechapel itself is forever imprinted by the residue of that moment in time. His work Lost Girls also ties quite a few important events, both real and fictional, to the assassination of Franz Ferdinand.

I don't know what he thinks about 12 Monkeys, but I'm sure he's seen it and he might just dig the idea that characters randomly hurtling through time and space might feel a gravitational pull toward the particularly heavy events of history, since that's how he views the construction of history itself.

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Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:32 pm
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Post Re: Looper Nitpick/Plot Hole Thread -- Spoilers Abound
That's interesting, but men make history, they aren't chess pieces with history as the player. Moore's theory ignores the millions of different events all over the world that make the "main" event. Does Moore's theory allow for how the Versailles treaty made room for the rise of Hitler. And how the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact gave him carte blanche to invade Poland. Theories of hot geography dilute individual responsibility

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Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:58 am
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Post Re: Looper Nitpick/Plot Hole Thread -- Spoilers Abound
You'd have to ask him.

It's important to remember that Moore is a storyteller, and--to use his description--a magician or even a shaman. He values his ideas as functional for telling stories first and foremost. His interest in those ideas as scientific tools for studying the mundane is secondary at best. One can suggest alternative theories, but it's hard to argue with his results. He's pretty good at what he does.

It's also worth mentioning that this is a guy who worships a snake god that he readily admits is made up, but it's presumably one of the many carefully placed elements of his life that puts him in a more creative headspace and allows him better to do what he does for a living. Especially when he's up to his beard in psilocybin.

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Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:54 am
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Post Re: Looper Nitpick/Plot Hole Thread -- Spoilers Abound
I could ask him. He lives only 20km from my Aunt's house.

It is an interesting perspective that lends well to mythology

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Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:03 am
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Post Re: Looper Nitpick/Plot Hole Thread -- Spoilers Abound
If I ever fulfill one one my lifelong goals by getting him to allow me into his house, I'll see if I can wrangle an invite for you and/or your aunt.

Have you read/heard of Voice of the Fire? It's an anthology of prose stories he wrote about Northampton, which begins in the days of cavemen and ends in present day. It's cool, though the first story attempts to mimic the kind of language that a caveman would use. That's a bit trying. If you can get through that, it's a smooth ride through the (fictionalized) history of the town.

He's working on a second prose book that is apparently reaching epic proportions, which takes place exclusively on the street that he lives on. I'll make sure my mail carrier doesn't have any back problems before I order it... because he's sure as hell going to have back problems afterward.

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Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:36 am
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Post Re: Looper Nitpick/Plot Hole Thread -- Spoilers Abound
Ken, let me tell you this - those cavemen still live in Northampton and can be seen every Friday night. The East Midlands is a strange, isolated place. My Aunt lives in nearby Daventry. I also have family in Corby, a place where industrial workers were shipped in from Scotland in the 70s. Today there are people in Corby with very strong Glaswegian accents who've never even been to Scotland.

I will make a note of the Moore wrtings you mention

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Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:49 am
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Post Re: Looper Nitpick/Plot Hole Thread -- Spoilers Abound
Anyone seen this?

http://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/263563/

It seems this is fast becoming one of the best ways to get your dream project off the ground. Maybe I should try it myself one of these days.


Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:23 am
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