Discussion of movies and ReelThoughts topics

It is currently Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:30 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 179 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase... 
Author Message
Second Unit Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:07 pm
Posts: 377
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Ken wrote:
There is no point in posting news stories of individual incidents. Every one of them can be countered with an individual incident that speaks equally for the opposite position.


It seems as though only one side of the argument is being covered nationally, however.


Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:43 am
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 1999
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Rush (not the band), Sean (not our guy), and Fox News (sadly an actual thing) beg to differ.

_________________
The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.


Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:56 am
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pm
Posts: 2867
Location: Zion, IL
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Ken wrote:
Rush (not the band), Sean (not our guy), and Fox News (sadly an actual thing) beg to differ.

Sean who? Penn?


Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:08 am
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 1999
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Even worse: Hannity.

_________________
The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.


Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:12 am
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pm
Posts: 2867
Location: Zion, IL
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Ken wrote:
Even worse: Hannity.

Never heard of him.


Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:54 am
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 1999
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Vexer wrote:
Never heard of him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sean_Hannity_Show

_________________
The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.


Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:55 am
Profile
Second Unit Director
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:35 am
Posts: 423
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
What if that woman had not been allowed to own a handgun? She would probably be dead.


What if the intruder had not been able to obtain the shotgun? The argument will always work both ways. You either try and ensure that (almost) nobody is armed, or that (almost) everybody is armed. And both sides believe that either action will have similar effects on gun violence. Of course, by arming everyone you run the risk of escalation (everyone walking the streets with grenade launchers if taken to the extreme), and by disarming everyone you run the risk of good people not being able to defend themselves against criminals who obtain weapons through illegal means.


Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:29 am
Profile
Second Unit Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:21 pm
Posts: 491
Location: Milwaukee, WI (USA)
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Ken wrote:
Rush (not the band), Sean (not our guy), and Fox News (sadly an actual thing) beg to differ.


I don't think roastbeef was referring to niche news commentators (different from reporters) or a network that is only available on cable TV.


Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:00 pm
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pm
Posts: 2867
Location: Zion, IL
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Johnny Larue wrote:
Ken wrote:
Rush (not the band), Sean (not our guy), and Fox News (sadly an actual thing) beg to differ.


I don't think roastbeef was referring to niche news commentators (different from reporters) or a network that is only available on cable TV.

Fox News is not a cable station.


Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:10 pm
Profile
Second Unit Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:07 pm
Posts: 377
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Awkward Beard Man wrote:

by disarming everyone you run the risk of good people not being able to defend themselves against criminals who obtain weapons through illegal means.


This.

But I wonder if both sides can ever reach an agreement that both sides are proud to support? I doubt it.


Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:21 pm
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 1999
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Johnny Larue wrote:
I don't think roastbeef was referring to niche news commentators (different from reporters) or a network that is only available on cable TV.

Hannity is available over the free-and-regulated airwaves via radio.

That said, if you're going to accuse the media, you have to accuse all media. You don't get to pick and choose. Sean Hannity is one of the most popular radio hosts in the country.

I also don't agree, at least in the practical sense, that there is a difference at this point between "commentators" and reporters. Both deliver facts via mediation. That's the job they do, for good or ill.

And as long as I'm disagreeing with stuff, I might as well point out that it isn't a journalist's job to present one side or the other, but that is what journalists do now. The rest of us are left sitting here wondering what the fuck happened to the world while we were trying to live our lives.

_________________
The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.


Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:01 am
Profile
Second Unit Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:38 pm
Posts: 237
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
What do you know, actual statistics to back up the argument that owning a gun makes ones home less safe.
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-kellermann.htm
-Jeremy

_________________
My Blog: Queering the Closet


Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:42 am
Profile WWW
Cinematographer

Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 4:33 pm
Posts: 584
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
I'm new to the politics thread, but I might as well throw in my two cents on the gun control issue.

I oppose an assault-weapons ban, as well as any other forms of intrusive government regulation over weapons. Keep in mind that I have never fired a single gun in my life, nor do I own any at the moment. I believe that the NRA is full of individuals who are out-of-touch with the issue and who reflect poorly on advocates of the Second Amendment. I believe that this amendment was explicit in its guarantee that all individuals are entitled to a basic right to defend themselves from governments that infringe upon their most basic liberties. As someone who has expressed great disgust with both the Bush and Obama administrations (I believe that the last great American president who possessed even an ounce of moral duty was John F. Kennedy), I fear the dangers of an unfettered, crippling economy, the expansion of the wars in the Middle East, the United States' current role as the world's policeman, the domestic and overseas drone programs, and (most frightening of all) the ignorance of so many Americans concerning these issues.

Just thought that I'd give some background before taking part in this discussion. :)


Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:22 pm
Profile
Critic
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:35 am
Posts: 6976
Location: Easton, MD
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Sean wrote:
I'm new to the politics thread, but I might as well throw in my two cents on the gun control issue.

I believe that this amendment was explicit in its guarantee that all individuals are entitled to a basic right to defend themselves from governments that infringe upon their most basic liberties.


Well regardless of your opinion, that statement is factually wrong. Explicit means "fully or clearly expressed or developed. The second amendment says:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed


That's not explicit about anything, and certainly not about the peoples' "basic right to defend themselves." Now the founding fathers may well have agreed with you, if they were able to comprehend a person using an assault rifle, but it certainly isn't clear

_________________
I'm lithe and fierce as a tiger


Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:08 pm
Profile
Second Unit Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:21 pm
Posts: 491
Location: Milwaukee, WI (USA)
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Ken wrote:
I also don't agree, at least in the practical sense, that there is a difference at this point between "commentators" and reporters. Both deliver facts via mediation. That's the job they do, for good or ill.

And as long as I'm disagreeing with stuff, I might as well point out that it isn't a journalist's job to present one side or the other, but that is what journalists do now.


I don't agree that "commentators" and "reporters" are the same. Commentators like Hannity, Maddow, Limbaugh, and Olberman openly declare their biases. They do indeed present "facts", but they also present opinion on those facts. And they selectively present facts and omit others to serve their POV or intended message. This distinction between commentator and reporter predates these jokers to the first newspaper that ever made room for an editorial column. I know what you are saying, and that is that journalistic standards have gone to hell so that we no longer have a clear line, but instead we have commentators and shitty reporters. I don't blame Hannity, Maddow, Limbaugh and Olberman for this. They openly declare that they are not journalists. (I blame them for a lot of other crap to be sure, but not this.) I blame the other half...the so-called journalists who can't keep their biases in check or who sensationalize their stories to try and make themselves the story.

It's a sad state of affairs to be sure, but I grow weary of people who always throw out "Sean" or "Rush" or "Greta" as examples of media figures who are ruining civil society and never throw out "Rachel" or "Chris" or "Keith", like this shit only comes from one side.


Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:28 am
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 1999
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Oh, they're a huge embarrassment too. They should be the first ones holding Obama's feet to the fire for doing what is frankly much of the same stuff that his voters hated his predecessor for doing.

EDIT:

Did I say Obama? Because I mean every elected official who purports and fails to represent the progressive wing of this country.

_________________
The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.


Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:47 am
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pm
Posts: 2867
Location: Zion, IL
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Johnny Larue wrote:
Ken wrote:
I also don't agree, at least in the practical sense, that there is a difference at this point between "commentators" and reporters. Both deliver facts via mediation. That's the job they do, for good or ill.

And as long as I'm disagreeing with stuff, I might as well point out that it isn't a journalist's job to present one side or the other, but that is what journalists do now.


I don't agree that "commentators" and "reporters" are the same. Commentators like Hannity, Maddow, Limbaugh, and Olberman openly declare their biases. They do indeed present "facts", but they also present opinion on those facts. And they selectively present facts and omit others to serve their POV or intended message. This distinction between commentator and reporter predates these jokers to the first newspaper that ever made room for an editorial column. I know what you are saying, and that is that journalistic standards have gone to hell so that we no longer have a clear line, but instead we have commentators and shitty reporters. I don't blame Hannity, Maddow, Limbaugh and Olberman for this. They openly declare that they are not journalists. (I blame them for a lot of other crap to be sure, but not this.) I blame the other half...the so-called journalists who can't keep their biases in check or who sensationalize their stories to try and make themselves the story.

It's a sad state of affairs to be sure, but I grow weary of people who always throw out "Sean" or "Rush" or "Greta" as examples of media figures who are ruining civil society and never throw out "Rachel" or "Chris" or "Keith", like this shit only comes from one side.
Well that's probably because Rush and Sean say much more revolting things then most peopl have ever heard from the other side(comparing abortion to Sandy Hook was beyond sickening :evil: not to mention incredibly stupid :roll: )

BTW, who's Greta?


Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:46 am
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 1999
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Greta Van Susteren. She has a Fox News show called On The Record.

I wouldn't mind all these self-styled news channels having non-news programming if they all hired Jon Stewart to come in and chaperone.

Bonus points if it's with O'Reilly, considering that their chemistry together's actually pretty good.

_________________
The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.


Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:10 am
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pm
Posts: 2867
Location: Zion, IL
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Ken wrote:
Greta Van Susteren. She has a Fox News show called On The Record.

I wouldn't mind all these self-styled news channels having non-news programming if they all hired Jon Stewart to come in and chaperone.

Bonus points if it's with O'Reilly, considering that their chemistry together's actually pretty good.

Let me guess, she's a woman who hates other women? those types seem to be pretty commonplace on Faux news.


Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:15 am
Profile
Second Unit Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:21 pm
Posts: 491
Location: Milwaukee, WI (USA)
Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Vexer wrote:
Ken wrote:
Greta Van Susteren. She has a Fox News show called On The Record.

I wouldn't mind all these self-styled news channels having non-news programming if they all hired Jon Stewart to come in and chaperone.

Bonus points if it's with O'Reilly, considering that their chemistry together's actually pretty good.

Let me guess, she's a woman who hates other women? those types seem to be pretty commonplace on Faux news.


Question for you Vexer: Have you ever actually experienced any of these programs first hand or are you forming your opinions based on the opinions / reports of others? I find it quite depressing that in one post you can say "Sean Hannity: never heard of him" and then a few posts later say he's said more revolting things that have EVER come from the other side.

From my personal perspective, and so everyone knows where I'm coming from, I do NOT regularly watch these shows. I have been without cable for over a year now after having had it for 20+ years. I never regularly watched anything on Fox News. I would watch John Stossel on Fox Business Network to get the Libertarian perspective and Bill Maher on HBO to get the loony left, but that was about it. I would have watched Jon Stewart, but I couldn't make a daily comittment to a non-news show like that; the other 2 were weekly. On major political event evenings (election nights, state of the union addresses, conventions, etc.) I would flip around between the OTA networks, Fox, MSNBC, so I am familiar with the personalities, though I am not an acolyte of any of them.

As for radio, I rarely, if ever, listen to Limbaugh or Hannity. My prime drive time hours are devoted to talk radio that emanates locally, and yes it is of a conservative bent, though it's not as sensationalized as the national shows. When they go to commercial I will flip over to Michael Medved nationally or to a local African-American issues station that spews out anti white folk rhetoric from the left perspective. But those are really when my main channels are in commercial or the personality is on vacation or whatever for the most part. Otherwise my primary news source is the Yahoo news portal online and I receive the daily newspaper which I read every day.


Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:19 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 179 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forum/DivisionCore.
Translated by Xaphos © 2007, 2008, 2009 phpBB.fr