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Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase... 
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
I agree that the gun restrictions result from an attempt to stem the crime rate. However, since the crime is still concentrated in those areas with the highest restrictions, they appear not to be working. It would seem to make a whole lot more sense to do something about the crime rate than to eliminate access to guns, which do not appear to have a direct relation to crime rates based on the relatively low crime rates in heavily armed rural areas.

My point with the bombings and highjackings that occurred during the time of the assault weapons ban was that removing the availability of the weapons did nothing to protect the people from mass murder. Perhaps some are more comfortable with the prospect of getting blown up or burning to death in a high rise than they are getting shot, but I am not. At least against someone with a gun I have a fighting chance if I have one also.


Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:32 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
This is a pretty good take on the subject of gun control:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhXOuuHcjbs


Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:37 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Just curious...did anybody watch the video I posted of the concealed carry guy taking care of business?


Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:30 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
Just curious...did anybody watch the video I posted of the concealed carry guy taking care of business?

Yeah, it was pretty cool, too bad Illinois is the only state that dosen't allow concealed-carry.


Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:27 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Didn't watch it until just now. Glad only bad guys got hurt.

Not sure what the solution to violence in the U.S. is, but I'm convinced more laws will not help. I see this campaign, which is using a grave problem, as an attempt by one set of citizens to prevent other citizens from doing or having something they don't like. Kind of like blue laws against drinking alcohol on Sunday. Drunk driving is a very serious problem, and no doubt that limiting access to alcohol for some amount of time has probably saved someone's life somewhere along the line. But in reality the laws were an attempt by one set of citizens to limit a behavior that they didn't like, not about saving lives. Those laws weren't set up intially as an argument for saving lives, but just imagine now if a Christian group came out and tried to push one through saying it was to protect the children. Such an argument might be valid, but its not a good regulator of bad human behavior.


Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:50 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Vexer wrote:
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
Just curious...did anybody watch the video I posted of the concealed carry guy taking care of business?

Yeah, it was pretty cool, too bad Illinois is the only state that dosen't allow concealed-carry.


And guess which city has one of the biggest problems with gun violence?...

Hint: John Hughes used it as a setting for most of his movies.


Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:19 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Here is a good read on the mythical "assault rifle."

http://www.assaultweapon.info/?fb_action_ids=462011763859626&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%22462011763859626%22%3A306532132800889%7D&action_type_map=%7B%22462011763859626%22%3A%22og.likes%22%7D&action_ref_map=%5B


Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:22 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Question for you guys:

Where do you draw the line on arms owned by citizens--how many, what kind, etc.?

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Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:29 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Ken wrote:
Question for you guys:

Where do you draw the line on arms owned by citizens--how many, what kind, etc.?


Well, I don't think citizens should be walking around with rocket launchers, but...

A law abiding private citizen should be able to purchase as many guns and ammo as he or she sees fit, including rifles, shotguns, hand guns of all varieties.


Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:38 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
Ken wrote:
Question for you guys:

Where do you draw the line on arms owned by citizens--how many, what kind, etc.?


Well, I don't think citizens should be walking around with rocket launchers, but...

A law abiding private citizen should be able to purchase as many guns and ammo as he or she sees fit, including rifles, shotguns, hand guns of all varieties.

I don't think the average citizen should be able to purchase machine guns like the M-249 or M60. Nobody aside from military needs that kind of firepower for self-defense, that's just overkill, an AK-47 is more then enough for home defense.


Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:09 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Ken wrote:
Question for you guys:

Where do you draw the line on arms owned by citizens--how many, what kind, etc.?


I don't think there should be a limit on how many and I think any of the small arms of the kind currently allowed should continue to be allowed. That's just my take since my stance is that availability is not the problem - and that is from a federal perspective. I don't really have any problems with local limitations as long as they stop short of a total ban or make ownership and operation completely unreasonable (excessive taxes levied for the purpose of discouraging purchase). I think at a minimum, all citizens should have the ability to provide for their own protection.

I say this after having just seen a news story about some yahoo that caused injury to two people at a gun show in NC today (ironically called gun appreciation day) when his shotgun fired as he unzipped the case it was in for inspection prior to entering the show. :roll:


Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:36 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
Ken wrote:
Question for you guys:

Where do you draw the line on arms owned by citizens--how many, what kind, etc.?


Well, I don't think citizens should be walking around with rocket launchers, but...

A law abiding private citizen should be able to purchase as many guns and ammo as he or she sees fit, including rifles, shotguns, hand guns of all varieties.


Why? Why is the rocket launcher any different than the assault rifle? They're both designed just to kill people and have no other use

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Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:48 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Quote:
Raganrok wrote:

reduction in religiosity of this nation


What does that have to do with anything?


Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:37 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
JamesKunz wrote:
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
Ken wrote:
Question for you guys:

Where do you draw the line on arms owned by citizens--how many, what kind, etc.?


Well, I don't think citizens should be walking around with rocket launchers, but...

A law abiding private citizen should be able to purchase as many guns and ammo as he or she sees fit, including rifles, shotguns, hand guns of all varieties.


Why? Why is the rocket launcher any different than the assault rifle? They're both designed just to kill people and have no other use


If we are being honest, I actually think anything our military and police force has access too, civilians should have a means to acquiring the same stuff. (Yes I believe in the second amendment in that I believe it was designed to provide a way against too strong of a government...that should always hold true...and sorry this may have come from that movie, but governments should be afraid of their people, not the other way around). Also, if you read the sources that I posted, you should have learned that civilians cannot access "assault rifles"....that term was made up by liberals to falsely describe the most popular rifle in america. And a rifle was designed to strike and fire a high velocity projectile to take down a target...not to just "kill."

And having said that, I realize the ultimate technology our gov't has access to, and how a few aircraft could destroy a very large number of people, places, etc. If another civil war broke out, or something else, could our citizens really stand a chance agains't our military? I believe they could...simply because I believe our military wouldn't turn a blind eye and just annihilate our citizens. I think that our military would take sides, and not simply kill americans because they were ordered to.


Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:55 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
I'm all for for citizens being able to defend themselves against criminals, but having access to top secret military-grade equipment to defend themselves agsint the government? i'm sorry but I think that's completely asinine :roll: . After hearing some of those gun-nuts ranting on CNN, I can honestly understand where gun-control advocates are coming from, I don't agree with them, but I sure as hell don't agree with complete wackjobs like Wayne La Pierre either. That's the main problem with this issue, there's seemingly no middle-ground, you're either with gun control or against it. I'm in the middle, I think citizens should be allowed to own a few firearms, but I DO NOT think they should be able to buy as many guns as they want, there's just WAAAAAAYYYYY too much potential for abuse there, and I especially don't think an average citizen should have access to things like predator drones, that's just a disaster waiting to happen.


Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:02 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
roastbeef_ajus wrote:

If we are being honest, I actually think anything our military and police force has access too, civilians should have a means to acquiring the same stuff. (Yes I believe in the second amendment in that I believe it was designed to provide a way against too strong of a government...that should always hold true...and sorry this may have come from that movie, but governments should be afraid of their people, not the other way around). Also, if you read the sources that I posted, you should have learned that civilians cannot access "assault rifles"....that term was made up by liberals to falsely describe the most popular rifle in america. And a rifle was designed to strike and fire a high velocity projectile to take down a target...not to just "kill."

And having said that, I realize the ultimate technology our gov't has access to, and how a few aircraft could destroy a very large number of people, places, etc. If another civil war broke out, or something else, could our citizens really stand a chance agains't our military? I believe they could...simply because I believe our military wouldn't turn a blind eye and just annihilate our citizens. I think that our military would take sides, and not simply kill americans because they were ordered to.


So, by your logic, you think everyone should be able to purchase (in ascending order of lunacy) fully automatic weapons, grenades, tanks, and fighter aircraft? Madness.

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Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:43 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
JamesKunz wrote:
roastbeef_ajus wrote:

If we are being honest, I actually think anything our military and police force has access too, civilians should have a means to acquiring the same stuff. (Yes I believe in the second amendment in that I believe it was designed to provide a way against too strong of a government...that should always hold true...and sorry this may have come from that movie, but governments should be afraid of their people, not the other way around). Also, if you read the sources that I posted, you should have learned that civilians cannot access "assault rifles"....that term was made up by liberals to falsely describe the most popular rifle in america. And a rifle was designed to strike and fire a high velocity projectile to take down a target...not to just "kill."

And having said that, I realize the ultimate technology our gov't has access to, and how a few aircraft could destroy a very large number of people, places, etc. If another civil war broke out, or something else, could our citizens really stand a chance agains't our military? I believe they could...simply because I believe our military wouldn't turn a blind eye and just annihilate our citizens. I think that our military would take sides, and not simply kill americans because they were ordered to.


So, by your logic, you think everyone should be able to purchase (in ascending order of lunacy) fully automatic weapons, grenades, tanks, and fighter aircraft? Madness.


I said a means to acquire the same stuff. That means could include numerous psycho evaluations etc, permits, special permission from whatever agency etc. Also it could take years to qualify and finally acquire, but yea I believe there should be a process. Anyway it will never happen, but just how I feel.


Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:57 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
roastbeef_ajus wrote:

If we are being honest, I actually think anything our military and police force has access too, civilians should have a means to acquiring the same stuff. (Yes I believe in the second amendment in that I believe it was designed to provide a way against too strong of a government...that should always hold true...and sorry this may have come from that movie, but governments should be afraid of their people, not the other way around). Also, if you read the sources that I posted, you should have learned that civilians cannot access "assault rifles"....that term was made up by liberals to falsely describe the most popular rifle in america. And a rifle was designed to strike and fire a high velocity projectile to take down a target...not to just "kill."

And having said that, I realize the ultimate technology our gov't has access to, and how a few aircraft could destroy a very large number of people, places, etc. If another civil war broke out, or something else, could our citizens really stand a chance agains't our military? I believe they could...simply because I believe our military wouldn't turn a blind eye and just annihilate our citizens. I think that our military would take sides, and not simply kill americans because they were ordered to.


So, by your logic, you think everyone should be able to purchase (in ascending order of lunacy) fully automatic weapons, grenades, tanks, and fighter aircraft? Madness.


I said a means to acquire the same stuff. That means could include numerous psycho evaluations etc, permits, special permission from whatever agency etc. Also it could take years to qualify and finally acquire, but yea I believe there should be a process. Anyway it will never happen, but just how I feel.


And so, to take your logic to its extreme, private citizens should be given nuclear weapons too, no?

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Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:03 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
JamesKunz wrote:

And so, to take your logic to its extreme, private citizens should be given nuclear weapons too, no?


I don't believe anyone or any government should have nuclear weapons (that is another debate). When nuclear weapons are brought into a mix, everybody loses.


Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:18 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
And having said that, I realize the ultimate technology our gov't has access to, and how a few aircraft could destroy a very large number of people, places, etc. If another civil war broke out, or something else, could our citizens really stand a chance agains't our military? I believe they could...simply because I believe our military wouldn't turn a blind eye and just annihilate our citizens. I think that our military would take sides, and not simply kill americans because they were ordered to.


I don't think that's how that would go down. While of course the reason for the war and the order to attack is a factor, I believe the soldiers would obey commands. The whole Army isn't going to refuse based on moral objection. That's not how they work. And when they do attack, there is very little that even the most well-armed civilians will be able to do to stop them. So, the "protection against the government" argument is pretty flimsy.


Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:40 am
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