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July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?" 
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Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
darwin wrote:
The title for James' piece: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?" may prove to be prophetic. The tragic shootings at a premier of "The Dark Knight Rises" appear to have been inspired to some degree by "The Joker". For public relations reasons I imagine Warner Brothers will not want to touch this franchise with a barge pole for many years.. at least ten.

Maybe that is no harm, as James says it's hard to imagine where the Batman franchise could go from here or how anyone could do any better than Nolan has.

I actually think it will have the opposite effect, Warner Bros. will want to get to work on a considerably less "dark" Batman film ASAP in an attempt to distance the character from the tragic event. People are going to flock to see Batman regardless of what happened in Aurora, so I don't see why the studios would slow down

I agree with Ken, I think Nolan is talented, but I don't think he's even close to being one of the best directors of all time, there's no reason in the world why someone else can't make a good Batman film.


Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:29 pm
Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
Jame B wrote:
Inexorably, over a span of seven years, Nolan has reinvented the superhero genre, and there's no going back. It's not just an issue for whoever reboots or continues the Batman narrative; the proverbial "game changer" impacts every filmmaker who makes a superhero movie. The simplicity of following a basic template will no longer work. We've seen hints of this in recent years with B-list titles like Captain America and Green Lantern failing to live up to expectations. Why? Because they followed yesterday's rules.
...
That's not to say there will never be another straightforward, by-the-numbers superhero movie, but the audience's appetite for such bland simplicity is waning. One need look no further than the box office grosses of recent offerings to get the idea that they're on the way out. Survival in this genre demands complexity and a rejection of an old-fashioned good/evil dichotomy.


I would tend to disagree with this sentiment. People's tastes moderate in fairly short cycles. The success of Nolan's Batman series incites others to make their material darker and darker until a saturation point where the public then craves lighter fare. There was a time not so long ago when 30-minute sitcoms were almost extinct on network TV in favor of one hour dramas inspired by the likes of "The X-Files" and "reality shows" and "game shows". Look at TV today. While not as dominant as they once were, the sitcom has made a return. Granted, shows like "Modern Family" and "Community" are not your studio-audience, 3 camera sitcom that we're used to, but for every "Modern Family" there is a "Two And A Half Men" or "Big Bang Theory" that follow the formula. Yes, sitcoms have in some ways evolved into something more complex, but "Two And A Half Men" has still been a ratings darling.

I don't know that with the latest Batman series that you can categorically say we can never go back to simpler, lighter superheroes; the public will decide. Especially if they tired of all the brooding.


Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:12 am
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Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
Year One is in many ways close in tone to Batman Begins, and it would be yet another origin story, but the more "realistic" story would make for a great movie if someone did it right (I wish the Darren Aronofsky adaptation would've happened, although then we probably wouldn't have gotten the Nolan movies) . Nolan's movies are great, but even they take the gadgets and "over-designed" suit a bit too far in my opinion. Year One wouldn't lend itself to a franchise though, it's only enough material for one movie really.

If Warner Brothers had the balls, they could adapt Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, which could easily be two movies, maybe even three or four. It's very dark though, maybe too much for a PG-13 movie, and as someone else already said that might not be what WB wants right now.


Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:29 am
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Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
I don't see them doing a big budget, live action Dark Knight Returns. For one thing, it isn't the mainstream version of the character. For another, its ideas are pretty incendiary, even by the heightened standards of the recent movies.

The DCAU guys are taking a shot at it right now, though, so maybe that will ease it into the public consciousness.


Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:55 am
Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
Ken wrote:
I don't see them doing a big budget, live action Dark Knight Returns. For one thing, it isn't the mainstream version of the character. For another, its ideas are pretty incendiary, even by the heightened standards of the recent movies.

The DCAU guys are taking a shot at it right now, though, so maybe that will ease it into the public consciousness.

If anything could top (or bottom, as it were) the level of darkness that Nolan brought to the Batman franchise in films, this would be it.


Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:59 pm
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Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
Batman could be done in a series, or another graphic novel. The themes resonate, and adapt to, particular climates. The villains are obvious metaphors for the problems that are percieved in the world at the time.

Nolan's efforts mean there won't be another film for 20 or so years, but the character is not dead.

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Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:39 am
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Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
I think that people should look past the whole dark and sombre ideas that the new batman franchise has brought out and consider the following,
Because Dark Knight was such a well made made film, Superhero based films can no longer be dismissed as Block buster fudder in the same way that the likes of "Transformers or any Michael bay film" is.
Because of the Dark Kniight and to a smaller degree Dark Knight Rises,Superhero based films can be taken seriously as a medium in their own right.
Christopher Nolan may not have been the first to take a comic book seriously ( i believe that Bryan Singer with Xmen started making seriously grounded superhero films first.), but he has upped the standard for eveyone else.

I an hoping that because Nolan's films were of such a high standard, other Super hero films will also have to up their game.


Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:01 am
Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
I think taking superheroes seriously is a matter of style and technique just as much as content. Compare Batman: The Movie (1966) with Superman (1978). The former is a ham-fisted, almost made-for-TV affair. The latter is meticulously shot and cut, with writing that establishes a purposeful tone and (more or less) cohesive story logic. To me, this is a clear-cut, perhaps unequaled leap forward in the quality of superhero storytelling on film.

Fast-forward. Compare Batman (1989) to Batman Begins (2005). This leap forward is much less certain. The former achieves a sort of dreamlike emotional fugue, which the latter doesn't accomplish, because the latter is crafted in a much more pedestrian way. By contrast, the latter simply makes more sense in its progression of ideas and its logical consistency, while the former seems to have left quality control in the hands of 12 year olds.


Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:57 pm
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Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
I actually think Batman (1966) is ahead of its time as a work of pure satire. It has self-awareness in bucketloads, whilst at the same time seemingly celebrating the values of rich, handsome, upstanding Americans against ugly, devious Communists.

Batman 1966 is brilliant!

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Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:15 am
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Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
NotHughGrant wrote:
I actually think Batman (1966) is ahead of its time as a work of pure satire. It has self-awareness in bucketloads, whilst at the same time seemingly celebrating the values of rich, handsome, upstanding Americans against ugly, devious Communists.

Batman 1966 is brilliant!

Have you been watching episodes of Family Guy recently?


Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:29 pm
Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
Ken wrote:
I think taking superheroes seriously is a matter of style and technique just as much as content. Compare Batman: The Movie (1966) with Superman (1978). The former is a ham-fisted, almost made-for-TV affair. The latter is meticulously shot and cut, with writing that establishes a purposeful tone and (more or less) cohesive story logic. To me, this is a clear-cut, perhaps unequaled leap forward in the quality of superhero storytelling on film.

I think that it unfair to compare Batman: the Movie to Superman. Batman was based on a camp TV show. I would include Batman in the same category as Airplane or Naked Gun.
It was more like a comedy than an action film.
In terms of Superman I feel that this was the first comic film to be an epic movie. I don't think that there was any comic book movie that had a similar epic feel.
Ken wrote:
Fast-forward. Compare Batman (1989) to Batman Begins (2005). This leap forward is much less certain. The former achieves a sort of dreamlike emotional fugue, which the latter doesn't accomplish, because the latter is crafted in a much more pedestrian way. By contrast, the latter simply makes more sense in its progression of ideas and its logical consistency, while the former seems to have left quality control in the hands of 12 year olds.

I believe that Nolan's batman franchise has far more depth than Burton's.
I also believe that Batman/Wayne is a more important character in the the Nolan universe than in the Burton's. so much so that they should really have called the first Batman film "The Joker".
Like many comic book-to-movie adaptations, Batman is an "origin" story - only the origin being presented isn't that of the title character, but of the chief villain, The Joker. In fact, the entire movie belongs to The Joker, and, if there was a truth-in-titling policy in Hollywood, this picture would have been named after him.
(As read from the following Review)
http://www.reelviews.net/php_review_template.php?identifier=758
In Batman Begins, Bruce Wayne is front and centre in this film. This films villain is so subject to requirements that they don't even bother to try and catch him at the end.


Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:06 pm
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Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
Ken wrote:
Again, not to take anything away from Nolan's conceptually inventive side, but he does have his weaknesses, and they're on full display in the Batman movies.

Most notably his general (in)ability to write multi-dimensional female characters. I give him the benefit of the doubt on Carrie-Anne Moss in "Memento" and Hillary Swank in "Insomnia," and, as underwritten as I thought she was, Anne Hathaway in this film. But Katie Holmes in "Batman Begins," Maggie Gyllenhaal in "The Dark Knight" (I initially thought Holmes' poor acting in the first Batman movie was to blame, but Gyllenhaal proved me wrong by really not adding much improvement to the character), Rebecca Hall in "The Prestige," Ellen Page in "Inception," and Marion Cotillard in both "Inception" and this film left much room for improvement. And remind me again what the purpose of Juno Temple being in this film was? :?

At any rate, this is likely the last comic-book superhero movie I ever see, as I'm totally exhausted by the genre. Hell, if Nolan hadn't directed these 3 flims, I likely would've skipped them as well. :|


Last edited by H.I. McDonough on Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:55 am
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Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
James,

Did you lose money cause of the CNN thing?

Just curious of the financial effects of the Aurora murders.

M


Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:53 pm
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Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
MrGuinness wrote:
James,

Did you lose money cause of the CNN thing?

Just curious of the financial effects of the Aurora murders.

M


Didn't lose any money directly, but lost exposure... and who knows how many pageviews that might have translated into. Pageviews = $$.


Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:06 pm
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Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
A good article that is pretty much true in the short term but totally not so in the long term. Christopher Nolan has not killed Batman but rather created a masterpiece of comicbook fiction which has raised the genre from simplistic and formulaic to a level of "serious"fiction. The inevitability is that there will be a reboot as to leave any intellectual property as lucrative as Batman sit fallow for decades would be financially irresponsible for the owners. The box office success of the Amazing Spiderman shows that there will always be a market for a half decent movie that is not a game changer. Also in 6 to 12 years there will a new group of young movie goers with no connection to an "old movie" with old movie stars from another generation. The issue will become that anyone who loved the "old" Nolan version will be irrelevant in box office demographics and there will be pent up demand for a new vision of Batman for a new generation of movie goers which the studios will be more than willing to provide. Though it was nice to be part of watching a film classic being created as they are such rare moments when most of the Hollywood is either cookie cutter production or artistically pedestrian.


Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:06 pm
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Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
oakenshield32 wrote:
...to leave any intellectual property as lucrative as Batman sit fallow for decades would be financially irresponsible for the owners.


Because, you know, if you are not making money with art, you probably should just kill yourself...


Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:19 pm
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Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
Quote:
Because, you know, if you are not making money with art, you probably should just kill yourself...


True that is the age old tension between commerce and art. Though Warner Brothers and DC comics does operate on the western capitalist profit motive and Nolan and the cast were very well remunerated for their work and would not have done it for free.Even Michelangelo needed to get paid and worked on spec for his patrons.Sometimes the systems give you masterpieces and other times duds.Here is an interesting rumor that the reboot is only 4 years away.

A mere 13 days after TDKR opening worldwide - since culling over $300 million - Warner Bros. is apparently prepping a franchise reboot of BATMAN to be ready for 2016. Cosmicbooknews includes the word might, so take that for what you will. It seems the plan is to release a newly vamped take on the character after the first JUSTICE LEAGUE movie is released. It won't be an origin story but will feature Batman entering his second year as a hero.


Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:41 pm
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Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
I can't even begin to describe how irritating I find it that Warner Brothers is already planning the next Batman movie.

My answer to JB is yes. Nolan killed Batman. He didn't just kill him, he obliterated him - in the best possible way. No Batman film will ever again illicit such an emotional response from me as The Dark Knight trilogy has. It really has changed the way I enjoy movies.

That being said, movies are subjective and I'm clearly speaking on an emotional level.

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Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:24 pm
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Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Personally, I thought Nolan set things up so that there can be some type of continuation through Robin.

I don't know how this translates from the graphic novel, but it sure seemed like the door was left open for something continuing...


Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:33 am
Post Re: July 20, 2012: "Has Christopher Nolan Killed Batman?"
By making a self-contained trilogy of Batman with a clearly defined beginning, middle, and end, Nolan has essentially killed Batman. But that's not a bad thing at all. These movies will resonate for a long time as classics of the superhero genre, and challenging them with another version of Batman so soon is foolhardy.

There are a lot of stupid, unrefined people out there who want nothing more than mindless thrills (or laughs) from their movies. And I know that money is the primary reason why a movie is made. I get that. But does it have to be the ONLY thing? Shouldn't someone at Warner Brothers do the right thing and put an end to the rehashing? Leave Batman alone for a good long time and move on to other projects. There are other ways to make money


Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:34 pm
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