Yeah, I did miss that part. I think I was too caught up in the weird "You know he doesn't like to be called that," "Oh, silly me," exchange when I should have been processing it. God, I hated that present-day scene. To sum it up in one sentence: "Oh by the way, Americans don't know the first thing about religion or where we came from. Goodbye!" Silly tack-on.

I've had time to think about this more.

Complaint #1.
Why was technology suddenly evil? Vengeance and the unwillingness to forgive is the reason they kept killing each other, not technology and advances in science. KEEP THE TECHNOLOGY. IT'LL HELP YOU SURVIVE. Plus, it's not realistic that everyone would be agreed on throwing it away.

Complaint #2.
Lee got shafted. First, his dad bailed out on him for a dead lover despite the fact they've built a relationship the entire show. Then, Kara vanishes because her "job here is done." Good, Kara saved humanity, but what about Lee? Whoever this God is that brought her to life and took her away, he is really kind of an a-hole.

Complaint #3.
Suddenly everyone knew all about surviving without technology. They were gaily reminiscing about their excitement to hunt as if it were a nostalgic past time. Whatever. You got food from replicators growing up. You're going to die next winter.

I hate to admit it, but I was sitting there going "Africa without AC? I'm not signing up for that." And I'd rather not go without antibiotics, thanks.

That said, it was a plot device. They had to have a reason why there wouldn't be ships/equipment/technology in the fossil record.



Agreed, especially about Adama. I never really thought Kara and Lee would end up together, although that doesn't make it any better for Lee.



Given that we ended up with Hera as Eve, I think we can extrapolate that they didn't know about surviving without technology. If they had survived, you'd think there'd be lines from that time still with us, instead of having us all descend from Hera.

A small point, but it fits . .

I actually didn't mind the present day scene. It basically said that we, like the colonies, have this bizarre mythos surrounding god that may or may not be true. I thought tying it in with the real world was some that, in the end, was bound to happen, and at that the series did a good job.


I agree on the realism aspect, and I think it was done more for what technology represents. It represents their sordid past and everything they did wrong. The survivors were apparently willing to give away all their technology in exchange for totally washing their hands of their past, which I'm willing to suspend my disbelief about. I can understand calling bullshit on that, though.



I actually liked Lee's ending. He's free of both the military and civilian government, which is what I think needed to happen. He seems to finally be at peace with himself and those around him, and it's implied that he's going to become a sort of wanderer-explorer type, which isn't a bad ending.



I think this ties in with complaint #1 in the people's willingness to throw away technology. The ending of series is unabashedly idealistic, but, in the end, it's soft science fiction and I'm willing to suspend my disbelief once again for a show that's asked me to suspend my disbelief many, many times in the past.

And, anyways, they're all gonna be dead by the next glacial period

I loved almost every minute of this series up until the last 45, but I am struggling to understand the positivity about the finale. The emperor has no clothes!

I harbor a few minor concerns about the suspension of disbelief issues mentioned earlier that. The unanimous decision to abandon technology was utterly absurd, and the Admiral's desire to venture off on his own was questionable at best.

Far more concerning to me was the way Moore handled the supernatural elements of the finale. There were events that simply could not have transpired without divine intervention - Starbuck's resolution, primitive humans on earth(2) - and other elements that strongly suggested that a deity was interfering. Throughout the series, the question was whether god/gods exist, and if not what was manipulating events using religion? Basically at the 11th hour, the mystery was shifted to the nature of the (obvious real) divine/eternal/god/whatever. I am sure many will disagree, but I believe that on this issue, ambiguity was a good thing. It should have been left open to debate! Providing suggestive elements in many different direction was far more interesting during the series, and would have been perfectly suitable for the finale as well.

I suppose I could let this go, it was just one episode in the series. But I am hesitant to do so. This single episode detracts from the entire series, simplifying the questions raised about religion and the supernatural by providing a definitive answer. I maintain uncertainty is more compelling.

Oh well, so Kara becomes Gandalf, God is real, and we are treated to a robot montage. I will not be watching Caprica.

When you put those things together like that, it reads like you hated the BSG finale, and as a result you will not watch Caprica.
Surely, that's not what you meant? Even if you disliked the finale, it's pretty distantly related to Caprica, and I'm assuming you have other reasons for not wanting to watch it, right?

Anyway, I loved the supernatural elements in the finale. I thought they had been building towards some revelations for a long time, esp. regarding the presence of "angels." It didn't ruin the series for me, as I thought it made perfect sense as part of the series and finally clarified a lot of things. Head Balthar and Six as "angels" worked perfectly for me.
Yes, there was some sort of entity behind the scenes, giving them opportunities to break out of their cycle of 'this has all happened before, and it will all happen again." Yes, you're right, the question shifts a little bit from whether there is a god, to what the nature of that god is, but that's been a long time coming. They've been shifting that way over the course of the last season. It wasn't like it happened all of the sudden in this finale. And I don't find that shift disappointing in the slightest. As much as BSG is a unified entity, it's really not--it's still a TV show that took us on a journey (and large parts were made up as they went along). It shouldn't have to only raise the same questions throughout its entire run. It raised interesting questions about whether or not there was a god early on, and now it raises questions about what god is. I'm fine with both.

Actually, the way BSG wrapped up is precisely why I believe Caprica will be poor. I have lost, for lack of a better word, faith in Moore and Co. I think they stumbled on masterful elements in BSG (my favorite being the broad range of interpretations for many of the issues/ideas presented across the series) as opposed to having a grand scheme from the outset. The way the writing process for the show has been described provides some support for this. The finale illustrates that their attempts at such planning have limited success, and what works is more organic. I am fairly certain the freedom the writers experienced writing for BSG will not be replicated on Caprica, given the intrinsic constraints for the series.

Also, I'll have in the back of my mind, "Ron went for the God angle!" which opens the door to lazy lazy plot elements in Caprica.

But in the end, you're right, I'll probably watch it. I was just desperate to vent my rage!

BSG often projected a sense that there was some grand plan, some outline that the show's writers had firmly in mind, and eventually everything would be revealed and it would hold up as one unified entity.
I agree with you in that I was disappointed by their tendency to make things up as they went along. Of course, this allowed them to be more relevant and topical, and as you said-allowed them to stumble upon some interesting ideas. But I will agree that this all makes me less interested in Caprica overall.
However, I don't lay that blame at the feet of the finale. The finale actually held together the idea of a unified whole better than the rest of the last season or two. I came to accept that they were making things up as they went along sometime earlier on in season 4.

I don't expect to watch Caprica just because I know what I want to know about the BSG universe. No matter how good it is, I expect to be disappointed simply because I've filled in the blanks myself, and the discontinuity is often painful.

Now, it's possible that Caprica will put twists on things and shed new light, however obliquely, on BSG, so we'll see. Of course, that's what we all hoped with the Star Wars prequels too.

As for the God angle, I agree that it opens the door to lazy plot elements. It doesn't have to, though. I am reminded of the 2001 and 2010 (the films only--the books are a different animal). The way I read your point, 2001 is about the level of ambiguity (give or take) you're looking for. 2010, on the other hand, was more specific and literal, to its detriment.

That said, while 2010 wasn't well served by the more literal elements, it was still a good film (IMO). And I don't think the the problems with the literal stuff in it were errors of laziness.

I'd put the God issue in BSG squarely in the middle between 2001 and 2010. I don't think they were due to laziness. Here's how I'd put it: Deus Ex Machina is a terrible habit and a cheat, and I've been dreading it for a while. Had BSG set itself up in isolation from some sort of hook to who we are today, I'd agree wholeheartedly with your take. However, because of where they ended up, when they ended up there, and the revelation about Hera (particularly in the present day New York scene), the God elements end up saying something quite specific about who we are and our place in the universe. God wasn't just a convenient way to tie up loose ends; the point, for better or worse, is that we are here because God intended us to be here.

That point of view may or may not be compelling, but I do not see laziness in it.

What about the cylon (unseen), Daniel? Did they ever resolve this, or was it just used as a red herring for Starbuck's true (angelic) nature?

Yeah, Daniel was definitely a red herring.

I think those who let the finale ruin the series for them really need to take a step back and examine their expectations coming in. Too often, I find, people have a very specific set of expectations going in, and if they aren't met, regardless of how well-executed the finale is, they reject it.

Its difficulty for me to comment on 2010 (having not seen it unfortunately), but you're spot on correct about 2001. I've also never read the books; I will have to work to rectify this.



I definitely agree its not compelling; it's such a trite point to make. It was just so... artless. Compare the way things resolved in the finale to some of the deft examples of how religion was addressed in the series. My mind goes to the Chief being "drawn" to the temple on the algae planet, which is a touch on the mystical side, only to have it revealed later that's he's a cylon, providing another explanation. I think the laziness remains debatable; too many issues were resolved too easily via deus ex machina.

To further clarify my thoughts, I thought the finale was great until after the final jump. The beginning of the attack on the colony was edge of your seat television. Sorry if I've hijacked the conversation with a pedantic point, but I was really eager to get other fans' input on what I felt was a major component of the mythology and have enjoyed your commentary.

I have not been able to watch the finale yet, have to wait till its posted online.
From what I've heard I can't wait to watch it and judge it for myself.

I appreciate that. I have enjoyed your points as well.

Aesthetically, I think I would have preferred the angle you're describing--I think 2001 walked that line better than any film (or TV show) ever has. And your example with the Chief is certainly a good one--I'd lost some faith in the series since the end of season 3, and that would've really been a return to form.

That said, just because I think the finale you wanted might've been better, I don't agree that the point they made was trite or artless. In the context of the darkest sci-fi serial program ever done on television, I would argue that the ending was head-turningly ironic. And, as someone who's very cynical about that sort of thing, I nonetheless think the light it shed on earlier events was interesting. I DO think it suffers in the comparison with 2001, because thematically, it was a more literal take on a similar theme.

I guess my point is that while the finale wasn't as good as I'd hoped, it was considerably better than what I expected. I understand (and share) your preferences, but I find that I am satisfied with what we were given.

That, and I agree that the episode up to the jump was very good. I would argue that the first hour lived up to the most tense moments of the original miniseries, and that's an accomplishment.

As a fun aside:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaStl18xyBc

Nice reminder of everything I loved about the show.

.....or point me to a site that might do such a thing? I haven't watched the series and don't have the time to devote to it, but judging from all of the buzz, previews and bits and pieces I have seen on television I have to know how the story unfolds and what this dramatic conclusion is. From what I know...a genius scientist sold out humans....cylons evolved to become indistinguishable from humans...cylons and humans began to co-operate with one another on some level....so what's the dramatic twist or twists throughout and at the end

This looks like Trevor's field...or wikipedia

Yeah...I searched on it for a while but found nothing great and got frustrated. I'm sure there's way too much going on to do justice to the story with a brief summary, but if I had like 30 bullet points that would be more than I have now.

I would never dream of summarizing it all for you - you have to experience it for yourself.
I can summarize the concept--Humans create robots that rebel and destroy most of humanity. The last survivors battle against Cylons who look like humans, always suspecting those in their midst. Some of them believe in a religious solution to their problems, some do not. Some of them think they will eventually find Earth, some do not.

The reason I would never go into depth is that in the end, the series was not about the specific plot points, or even the whole story arc, but about the evolving of the audience's feelings towards the characters, towards the cylons, etc. When a series is about playing with ppl's perceptions, then describing it does no good, and would destroy any possibility of enjoying it to the fullest. You can find plenty of spoiler-filled descriptions of the finale if you look (Scifi.com for one), but it won't matter to you really if you haven't seen the show, and you will forever be forfeiting the wonderful experience of watching the show all the way through.

Two Mods, one duplicate thread, and no merge. That is one confusing sequence.

What's the point? Do you really think that by reading about a series you've even come close to experiencing it? If you want to read about something with a lot of plot twists, pick up a book. Just reading plot summaries about movies or TV series totally ruins the point of the visual medium.