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I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But... 
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
I don't know that the refs changed the outcome, but it was awful officiating indeed and it certainly affected the game. Not worse (or better) than game 2 or games 2 and 4 in the East. It's been incredibly bad all around, really.

DunkinDan89 wrote:
The Thunder continue to win on lazy offense and lucky shots.


Dude, you know I've been on your side in bashing Westbrook and I remain there...but Durant has been anything but lucky the past 3 games, he's simply been the best player on the court down the stretch. Westbrook, yes, relies on chance too much when he relies on jumpers. But don't lump Durant in there when he's playing at this level, getting the shots he wants and knocking them down. And they're offense isn't lazy at all...inept at times, yes, but I see no logical reason to question their effort.

Regardless, we may remember this postseason for bad officiating more than anything and that's unfortunate. A lot. Some of the calls have been as absurd as Vin Diesel in a blanket.

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Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:32 am
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
I think Dan's just in bitter, reactionary fan mode. I don't think the officials were good by any means, but I don't think their awfulness benefited either team more than the other tonight. The Spurs did end up shooting 8 more free throws, and the number of fouls called on each team was the exact same (25). The Spurs were also into the bonus 2 minutes into the game! There was even a horrific offensive foul call on Westbrook late in the game in the middle of San Antonio's big run. Again, that doesn't mean a bunch of calls that didn't go the Spurs' way weren't terrible. It just means that the Thunder got shafted on their fair share of calls too. Which, when you get down to it, is fair in a weird way.

And the Thunder aren't lucky. They run some poor offensive sets at times, but to call them lucky just isn't very accurate. For better or worse, that's how they play and it has them one win from the Finals. They play hero ball too much and rely on jumpers. That's not a purist's dream, but you can't really argue with the results. They've been a top team all year, they're in the Conference Finals, and they're a win away from the NBA Finals. That isn't luck.


Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:55 am
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
PeachyPete wrote:
And the Thunder aren't lucky. They run some poor offensive sets at times, but to call them lucky just isn't very accurate. For better or worse, that's how they play and it has them one win from the Finals. They play hero ball too much and rely on jumpers. That's not a purist's dream, but you can't really argue with the results. They've been a top team all year, they're in the Conference Finals, and they're a win away from the NBA Finals. That isn't luck.


Yup. It's interesting because I think the Spurs and Celtics are clearly the better teams... but their opponents might both have the best player(s). That matters in this sport and can swing a game and then a series.


Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:22 am
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
It is not just the fouls or lack there of, I seriously have lost track of all the goaltends Ibaka gets away with. To me, goaltending is when the ball is clearly on the way down or hit after it goes off the backboard. Apparently I do not know the definition.

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Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:22 pm
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Well, the rule does say that the ball must have a chance of going in for the "on the way down" rule to take effect.

Regarding Heat-Celtics tonight... first of all, this nonsense of "game-time decision" regarding Bosh is a joke. We all know he's playing. The question is if it's a good idea and what it means.

There's no way he's 100% healthy. We know this, and I do believe he'd be sitting if the series was 2-2. Will he start? As a C's fan... I certainly hope so. They'll run stuff for him right away and they'll start the game feeling him out rather than playing their best, which only helps the Celtics. If they bring him off the bench, he can be more of a focal offensively and while he'll still need to feel things out it won't hamper Miami's start. As Phil said, Haslem has been very good... there aren't a lot of games in this series so far that made you think Bosh would have been immensely better offensively. Yes, he'll spread the floor and that helps, but KG's not going to cover him hard until he proves he can score. Could he be the difference the next three games? Of course. It's possible. But I don't think he should strike fear into Boston either.

Not that such a thing's possible. They're essentially an irrational confidence team right now. Rondo calling out the Heat (correctly) for lagging on the break complaining about calls is yet another sign that the Celtics honestly believe they're better than the Heat and they aren't afraid of them. Nor should they be. Jon Barry made this point before Game 4... the Heat do have another gear, but they rarely go there. If they were smart they would have gone there in Game 4 and shut this series down. But they're not smart, not at all, and now they've opened the door. Could I see a Miami blowout win tonight? Of course. They have the best two players and they're at home with an emotional boost to start the game. But by not bringing it harder to knock down Boston's confidence, they've left the door open for crazy occurances tonight.

What do I think will happen? No idea, of course. Not in these playoffs. But KG has been the MVP of the playoffs so far and I don't think Bosh slows him down consistently, the question is if the many minutes with only one day off will start to wear on him. This is the sort of game the Celtics sometimes start slow and that could be deadly tonight. But if they get the first punch in? Then things get interesting real quick. Hopefully it's not interesting because of the refs.

Oh, and because this hasn't been said said explicitly... I would absolutely start this series over/go from here with a healthy Bosh & Bradley. No question at all.

And finally, jackasses like Rick Reilly are talking about how Bron & Co. are doing enough and losing in ECF or the Finals is a great season. But no. No no no. This is their year. You can make some excuses for last year. But every other team this year is crazy flawed in specific ways that the Heat should exploit. It's put up or shut up.


Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:06 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
So my vote just changed for most impressive win of the postseason. That was IT. How stunning. Pierce lofted that 3 over James and we ride back to Boston, where we're almost perfect in the playoffs. Nothing's over - but hot damn. The Big Three are one of the best NBA concoctions, ever.


Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:17 am
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
First, this: Bron has a chance to rewrite the narrative. If he becomes the best player and best closer the next two games, it could be the start of some formation of mental toughness from them. It's not impossible.

But I don't see it. At all. No reason to. First, the Heat's stars don't come out for press conferences after losses anymore apparently. And Spoelstra said last night that "our focus is to fight any kind of noise from the outside." Are you kidding me? Is every Heat player that mentally weak? Is it contagious? Does no one get motivated by the haters? Apparently not. Not everyone has to be KG, and age/experience is a factor, but are the Heat really that mentally fragile still? I absolutely don't blame Spo for this... Bron and Wade could have come out and said the right things if they wanted to set the tone for the next game. They have no interest in that.

And then Wade says the the Heat "never expected to be in this situation"... and therein lies everything we need to know about them. They honestly, truly expected it would be easy, that forming their own Big Three would trump teamwork, experience, depth, offensive nuance and consistency, good shooting and great defense, etc etc. They didn't think it would be hard.

I've said this before, but I never thought Boston was afraid of the Heat at all. I didn't realize how far ahead of the rest of the league they were in understanding that they truly shouldn't be. If Boston closes this out, no one is going to be afraid of the Heat until and unless they make major changes. And again, nor should they be.

Like I said, it's certainly not done. Bron has a chance to change all this. This would absolutely be a worse loss than to the Mavs, because Boston's not that deep or healthy and while KG's been amazing, he hasn't been as historically great as Dirk was. There's no excuses left... Game 6 is Bron and this Heat team's legacy. Do they have some fight in them? I can't wait to find out.


Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:12 am
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Shade wrote:
Like I said, it's certainly not done. Bron has a chance to change all this. This would absolutely be a worse loss than to the Mavs, because Boston's not that deep or healthy and while KG's been amazing, he hasn't been as historically great as Dirk was. There's no excuses left... Game 6 is Bron and this Heat team's legacy. Do they have some fight in them? I can't wait to find out.


First and foremost, just to clear the waters; I HATE it when people call Miami's nucleus 'The Big Three'. Bosh doesn't even feel like he fits in, but even more-so, Bron is carrying an obviously falling Wade to a now unlikely Finals finish. They're 'The Big One and a Half with Toronto Sauce'. That's it. They're cheap, they're coached by a guy who seems to be taking a Winning Games 101 course that Doc teaches whenever he's free (Spo seriously sounds like a college student every times he explains the Heat's motivation to win at every media appearance - perhaps an NBA team wants their coach to sounds less like Stellan Skansgaard from 'Good Will Hunting' and more like - a coach?), and are essentially last year's Spurs with a better top guy (LeBron's been money all postseason), two weaker secondary pieces (one of which has been injured - comparison works!!), and a group of three-point shooters. And yes, Wade is weaker. And now that he's begged for fouls in three consecutive games, missed a wide open 3 that would have justified the other three quarters that he now routinely doesn't show up for, and essentially made LeBron face the same dilemma he faced in Cleveland (but slightly better!!), I've lost a lot of respect for him. I knew LeBron needed to be coddled into success, but Wade, too? I'm stunned. I don't even want to hear that he's been injured. I don't want to hear that he's getting older and is aging badly. As a Celtics fan, I can safely call all of that bullshit. Wade simply doesn't want it as badly as LeBron, and one of LeBron's mistakes in moving to the Heat was perhaps that he didn't join forces with a Superstar who hadn't won a title before.

Let me explain my sentiment a bit. Wade can and will perform in the clutch - he was THE guy in 2006. When you win a title with a greatly diminished Shaq and an even more diminished Antoine Walker (we're approaching negative integer levels here), down 2 games to none, you've displayed that you can win it all in the face of adversity. But he doesn't have that spark now, I think. LeBron came to live in Wade's comfortable house, and oddly (or maybe logically) enough, Wade's comfort, negligible as it may seem to the naked eye, works against any and all fierceness and intensity LeBron needs to have to break through to the championship barrier. What does Wade lose if the Heat fall in game 6? Skip Bayless' approval? It's nothing compared to what LeBron faces. When you have a superstar who plays for all three quarters impeccably but cannot hit a game-winner, and a superstar who essentially ignores the previous three and makes a run in the fourth, you need the latter guy to be hungry, pissed off, and motivated. But, like the Spurs, he merely wants to further raise a ceiling that history already supports. It's not the same as Durant winning his first, LeBron getting the monkey off his back, or the Big Three (you know who the hell I'M talking about when I say that) gaining All-time status with a third Finals appearance in five years and taking down the EXACT would-be successors to their Eastern throne in dramatically embarrassing fashion. The Spurs, Wade, they have nothing motivating them at that level. They're accomplished. And I think it's working against them this postseason, and in both cases, it's turning fatal against teams that have clearly defined reasons for slugging them.

Now, the Heat could win this game 6 (and then, most likely, they'd win game 7) and all of this goes away. They at least have a decent opportunity to. The Spurs, I think, are done, because the Thunder feel confidence against them and now host them. I also think the Thunder now think less of going into SA for a game 7 as well. The probable reason for the Celts and Thunder's early series holes were that they didn't feel confidence early, and now have gained it (except that the Heat were also flagrantly cheating - the same cannot be said of SA or OKC). Seriously - you think the Thunder really sweat beating San Antonio again? Out of two possible games? I doubt that.

I want the Celtics to win game 6, and I think it's possible, too. As a Celtics fan in New Jersey, where we have tons of 'Heat fans'* decrying my Celts jersey whenever I decide to throw it on, it would be more satisfying than the Devils beating the Rangers in six. It would be more satisfying than the Niners beating the Giants in the NFC Championship game - and, if you know me, that's fucking monster-sized. I pray and hope they don't lose character and focus, and finish it off, at TD, with or without Bosh on the floor. Let's see. It should be an amazing game. And if it's a blowout win (which it just may), at least my blood pressure won't spike as high as it did last night; after going through the NFC playoffs (Saints, Giants), the NHL Eastern Conferences Finals, and now the NBA Eastern Conference Finals, I think I'll need the apathetic rest the baseball season will give me**. Because frankly, the way my favorite teams all play (tight games won by defense and opportunistic scoring) is going to give me angina.

* - If you want to prove to that you are a Heat fan you must a.) provide a picture of you and Dwyane Wade dated earlier than 2010, b.) provide a ticket stub to a Heat home game dated before 2010, or c.) not wear a Knicks jersey every day until the start of the playoffs. Yes, people are really this stupid. Especially Knicks fans. Yeah, I said it.

** - Honestly, who fucking cares if your teams loses 1 out of 162 games? Baseball puts me to sleep quicker than 'The Last of the Mohicans'. And at least Mr. Day-Lewis' film has the good sense not to clog Sportscenter with stats for games that nobody cares about (Pirates and Phillies, game 2 of *one regular season series* ? Seriously - WHO GIVES A SHIT?). God, I hate baseball. Yep, that's how I'm choosing to end this. By saying I hate baseball.


Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:59 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
I agree with everything Shade said in his last post, but I'll be a little more definitive than he was - this series is over. Paul Pierce ended it when he did his best Jason Terry impersonation and drained that 3 in Lebron's mug last night. When I said the C's had the edge yesterday, I was going to say I expected them to win it in 6, but I didn't want to jinx them/didn't have the balls. Boston's just too deep, knows each other too well, and cares too much for Miami to beat them. To Lebron's credit he didn't disappear last night. They just got beat by a better team. It was as simple as that. Too much KG, Rondo played too smart (even though he shot like shit), and Pierce was too clutch. I think it's fair to say at this point that Boston is simply better than Miami. Not by a whole lot, but by enough. There's a noticeable difference, and most of it shows in the mental area of the game.


Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:08 pm
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Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:02 am
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Durant is the best player of the playoffs. Period. What a great cap-off by the Thunder. Westbrook ended up stepping up over the last two games. I think this team has finally fulfilled their potential. It was a great series for the Spurs at first (I feel if Ginobli scored at a great pace today we'd be looking at a game 7 - he was probably the Spurs' MVP in the Conference Finals). Sad end to SA's season, but, all things considered, they made the best of a season that was projected to be worthless by pundits too numerous to mention. Great job, and I definitely think they'd have manhandled the cHeat. It was just OKC's time. Should be a rough match for the C's if we cap things off tomorrow.


Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:24 am
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Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:47 am
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Posted already.

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Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:47 am
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
I don't think the series was a fix. I want to, but I don't. However, Joey Crawford played prominently in the biggest game against a team he clearly hates, which was the bigger problem to me. Having him ref any game with Bill Kennedy is a joke -- how either of these guys still have a job UNLESS it's to swing games at times is beyond me.

That said, Joey Crawford didn't make the Spurs big 3 shoot poorly tonight or take Parker out of the game in the last 4. They needed to bring their best to win and they didn't. Could it have been a fix? Of course. We KNOW the league has done this in the past. But it wasn't a very good one if it was. Left way too much room for the Spurs to just win.

But give credit: Brooks made some adjustments, shortened his bench and let his guys run plays (not complex plays, but they didn't need to).

That said...

Evenflow8112 wrote:
Durant is the best player of the playoffs. Period.


...doesn't he have to play a possession or two of defense before we grant him this? He's without question been the best offensive player, yes. But KG's the playoffs MVP without question. Both players will have to continue to be incredible to continue their runs, but KG at least has a chance of changing an outcome when his jumper isn't falling. Can't say that about Durant.


Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:36 am
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Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:10 am
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Dan, I don't mean to sound like a jerk here, but you seem to always blame the refs whenever the Spurs lose. I know you're a die hard fan and watching your team lose in the playoffs is tough (or so I've heard, I wouldn't know being a Wizards fan and all), but you do seem to see the games with blinders on. That's not bad, and it's inevitable when watching the team you root for, but I don't think many people with a more objective viewpoint see the games the same way you do. I think you could easily pick out a handful of calls from each game that went against the Thunder each game. NBA refs suck. I don't think they were any worse towards the Spurs than they were towards the Thunder this series.

I mean, you're complaining about moving screens and superstars getting calls, man. You watch the NBA. They get away with moving screens all the time. Superstars have always gotten calls. It's like complaining about traveling or something. That's how the NBA works! It's like watching an NFL game and complaining that not enough holding penalties were called.

You're also overblowing the Ibaka goaltending. You say he got away with numerous goaltends in the last 2 games, but he had 4 blocks total in those games and maybe one was a goaltend. That didn't effect the outcome of either game.

It's almost like you complain about the refs so you don't have to acknowledge that the Spurs got beat. You keep saying the Thunder just hit lucky shots. Come on. You're better than that. You can't blame 4 straight losses when your team's offense leaves them and they stop playing D solely on the refs and bad luck. You ignore that Tony Parker played like shit for most of the series and that Tim Duncan can no longer score in the post (and seems to have forgotten how to pass out of the post as well, he was forcing TONS of shots). It's all on the refs. It's just crazy homerism, dude. Do you really think that every single time Timmy had it in the post he was mauled? Or that every single time Parker turned it over or missed a shot he was being fouled by Westbrook? Again, it's insane to actually believe that.

There was no fix. The Thunder were better. Sorry dude.

Shade wrote:
Evenflow8112 wrote:
Durant is the best player of the playoffs. Period.


...doesn't he have to play a possession or two of defense before we grant him this? He's without question been the best offensive player, yes. But KG's the playoffs MVP without question. Both players will have to continue to be incredible to continue their runs, but KG at least has a chance of changing an outcome when his jumper isn't falling. Can't say that about Durant.


You can't go wrong with either guy, but I'm going with Durant for now. There's no question KG has more impact on both ends of the floor, but you can't run your offense through KG at the end of games or give him the ball and say "get us a good shot". You can with Durant. He's a much better closer than KG ever has been, and we saw last night how good he can be when the offense goes through him at the end of games (it makes you wonder what took Brooks so long to figure that out).

To paint Durant as simply a jump shooter isn't correct, either. For one, how often does he go entire games with it not falling? He's shooting 50% for the entire playoffs. When he does shoot poorly, he usually gets to the line 10+ times and still gets his points. The very first game of the playoffs he was 10-27, but he chipped in 4 assists and 4 blocks and still hit the game winner. He gets 8 boards a game from the SF position, with over a block and a steal per game. I'm not saying he's anywhere near KG defensively, but he does impact the game on that side of the ball. To go along with 28 points a game on 50% shooting is just incredible.

His raw numbers also ignore the maturation we've seen from him in just this past series. He went with the flow for the first half of a bunch of games, and then took over in the second half when his team needed him. I believe it was Steve Kerr who said how incredible of a trait that was for anyone to have, let alone a 23 year old. After his masterpiece last night (34, 14, and 5!), I'm convinced - he's arrived. They're winning the first of many rings this year, and we should get used to Durant doing this kinds of things for the next 7-8 years.


Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:31 am
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
PeachyPete wrote:
There was no fix. The Thunder were better. Sorry dude.


Yup. Duncan went on to talk about how impressive the Thunder were. The Spurs lost last night because they did what they're never supposed to do: they let up. Every other team left we know can do that... we didn't think the Spurs did. But they went up 18, Parker & his team were confident... and they let up. The refs didn't cause that. They got beat. I don't know if the Thunder are a better team, but they have been since game 3.

PeachyPete wrote:
You can't go wrong with either guy, but I'm going with Durant for now. There's no question KG has more impact on both ends of the floor, but you can't run your offense through KG at the end of games or give him the ball and say "get us a good shot". You can with Durant. He's a much better closer than KG ever has been, and we saw last night how good he can be when the offense goes through him at the end of games (it makes you wonder what took Brooks so long to figure that out).

To paint Durant as simply a jump shooter isn't correct, either. For one, how often does he go entire games with it not falling? He's shooting 50% for the entire playoffs. When he does shoot poorly, he usually gets to the line 10+ times and still gets his points. The very first game of the playoffs he was 10-27, but he chipped in 4 assists and 4 blocks and still hit the game winner. He gets 8 boards a game from the SF position, with over a block and a steal per game. I'm not saying he's anywhere near KG defensively, but he does impact the game on that side of the ball. To go along with 28 points a game on 50% shooting is just incredible.

His raw numbers also ignore the maturation we've seen from him in just this past series. He went with the flow for the first half of a bunch of games, and then took over in the second half when his team needed him. I believe it was Steve Kerr who said how incredible of a trait that was for anyone to have, let alone a 23 year old. After his masterpiece last night (34, 14, and 5!), I'm convinced - he's arrived. They're winning the first of many rings this year, and we should get used to Durant doing this kinds of things for the next 7-8 years.


Don't disagree with any of that, holmes. I should have been more clear that I think KG is the clear MVP of these playoffs rather than the best player. Plus/minus can be skewed, but his is outrageous and incredibly obvious watching the games themselves. The offense doesn't run through him in traditional ways, no, but it does depend on teams fearing his jumper. These Celtics are resilient and one of the better definitions of teams we've seen in this generation of the league. But they've been incredibly beat up and KG has carried them here.

And this isn't a factor in discussing his greatness in relation to other players, but that KG is playing this well at this point given how he's looked in recent years is mind-blowing. We all thought he was beyond cooked. And think about this: every time he's been both healthy and on a good team, he's been in the Conference Finals. I'm not saying anything other than how different that narrative is than his later years in Minny.

Regarding being a closer... I totally agree that Durant's as good as the league has at this moment. Obviously he needs to sustain it beyond this year, but there's no reason to believe he won't. I do think it's a tad relevant that he doesn't really become the offensive force until closing time, but props to him for taking advantage of his teammates while he has them.

Honestly... isn't it possible that Lebron (who we all know is way too connected to the media and what they're saying) is thinking My goodness, is it worth playing crazy hard to beat the Celtics now only to lose to OKC in the Finals? At least I can hope something crazy happens and the C's win... I know I can't beat Durant right now. I mean, it doesn't seem unbelievable, right?

Big point, though: the Thunder have been outrageously healthy these playoffs and all year. Obviously being young helps, but it's not everything. Again, to his credit, Durant knows how to play hard without throwing his body around when he doesn't need to (hear that, D-Rose?). Harden or Westbrook go down and it changes everything. They don't need to apologize for that but it's true.

Really and truly, I want the best players to win rings. We all want to know how good people can be, Lebron or Durant or KG or anyone. And this could absolutely be the start of something special with Durant, whether they win or lose in the Finals. That said, I don't think the C's can't beat them. It would take a lot, more than it took to beat Miami, and they don't hate OKC like they hate Miami. But if it's Boston-OKC in the Finals, the Celtics can play the sort of D that pushes the Thunder into their worst habits. We shall see.

But if it's OKC-Miami? Thunder in 5.


Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:30 am
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
I know I picked the Thunder to win this series, so obviously I'm not 100% objective about this, but when it comes to being 'lazy', the Spurs, smartly or not, won a few games this postseason (ALL of the Clipper games) by having a fourth quarter lead of anywhere to eight or four points and intentionally fouled in order to keep the margin of lead consistent. To me, that's a pretty lazy method for a team that could probably shoot 12 straight 3's if it wanted to. It worked well when they were beating pathetic teams, but the Thunder figured it out; get rid of the fourth quarter deficit, hit your FTs when you need to, and give the ball to your best scorer when you need crunch time production. Done. Durant was the difference in this series in a way LeBron will never be for his teams. Now, I might always pick LeBron for regular season MVP, but postseason MVP is, with very much respect to KG (one caveat; his turnovers - especially that costly one in OT of game 2 vs. Heat - can put us in bad situations, and he often commits them late in the game), an award I see going to Durant many times in the near future.

Also, Ibaka might goaltend once in a while, but when you let the other team's bigs shoot 22 of 25, on the road, then you're probably going to lose. I thought the Spurs played better than I had initially credited them for, but the Thunder are an amazing team with true recognizable accomplishment at almost every position. Calling them cheap, lazy, or worst of all, cheaters, is to rob an obviously hard-working, mentally tough team of their deserved credit. They are simply the class of the West.


Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:49 am
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Evenflow8112 wrote:
Calling them cheap, lazy, or worst of all, cheaters, is to rob an obviously hard-working, mentally tough team of their deserved credit. They are simply the class of the West.


They have absolutely been lazy at times this season and postseason. Largely due to Westbrook not understanding his role, but it happens. It is their most obvious weakness and all their players are guilty of it at times. I do think they've largely turned that corner, but lumping that trait in with the others isn't fair.

Because the others are indeed untrue. Cheap isn't a real statement (and it's not true of the Spurs either, by the way). And cheaters they certainly are not. Even if the series is a total fix (which it isn't), the Thunder deserve no blame for that. Anyone calling them cheaters is indeed insane.


Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:06 am
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Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:55 am
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