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Your Thoughts on Suicide 
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Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
PeachyPete wrote:
Vex, there's a pretty big difference between being open to new relationships and attempting to find a new relationship after a breakup. I'm sure you probably know this, but it does sound like you're calling them the same thing, which is confusing.

Yeah that was unintentional on my part.


Thu May 17, 2012 2:42 pm
Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
Timmy Shoes wrote:
I never said jumping into the next relationship was the answer, I said getting back into the normal swing of their life (sans girlfriend/boyfriend) was. I know I used the phrase "jumping back on the horse," but I didn't mean it in the sense of jumping headfirst into a new relationship. Rebounding usually isn't fun for any party involved.

I do, however, think a little frivolous/spontaneous sex wouldn't hurt. Maybe Pedro should be his wing man and go out hunting for a one night stand. Then again, given his friend's vulnerability at the current moment, that might not be the greatest idea, either.

Vexer wrote:
You can believe whatever you want about me, I really don't care what you think, but I have been in relationships before, none of which I regreted in any way, was I let down that the relationships didn't work out? Of course, but I never once even considered suicide an option, nor would I ever get intoxicated over something like that(my family has a pretty bad history of alcoholism, several of my relatives have died because of it, I don't want to be next on the list) I do agree with you that the best thing to do after a failed relationship is to try and look for another one, i'm always on the lookout for new relationships because I know there's no point in lamenting over the past.


Please, don't take what I said as a personal assail. It's just that, the way you described your relationships in that post (the words that I bolded in my response) sounded more like the relationship one has with their grandma than a romantic one. Either that or some sort of Brady Bunch-eqsue warped TV version of a wholesome relationship that doesn't reflect reality at all.

Everyone has their own healing process; like most things it chalks up to the individual. Lets not lose sight of the fact that this thread was created by Pedro because he was seeking advice.

Well my relationships were "compicated" to say the least, I know it sounds weird from how I described them, but i'm not going into full detail about them for personal reasons.

Anyways, I hope your friend gets better Pedro.


Thu May 17, 2012 2:54 pm
Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
Shade wrote:
Because this is the bottom line: if your experiences with girls leads you to believe that "all girls are that way"... perhaps you should consider that rather than take that small sample size and apply it to 5 billion girls on the planet, you should look at the smaller sample size and find the common denominator: it's you.


We obviously come from very different cultures. I am not talking from personal experience alone. And regarding gender specific behavior: I read a book or two and I work for about 20 years for the advertising business. Not that I take what the creatives say at face value, but with the right analysis there is a goldmine regarding insight into human bpsychology and behavior.
Your words sound way too politically correct for my taste. Please forgive me, but they sometimes remind me of Yahoo articles such as "How to save your relationship" or "10 things never to do on a first date". No offense!
I just wanted to say what people usually avoid unless they are standup comedians (who usually tell a lot of truths depending on the gig). BTW: you have no idea how many people take clues from soap operas or Brazilian telenovelas (which are way, way better than US soaps - I live in Poetugal and they are shown in their original language: portuguese - the acting is usually top notch. People who pick up clues from that fluffy crap don't do it consciously, it sinks in - that's why it's so damn dangerous.
I handled my first breakup poorly, I was the one who broke up. The girl was very nice but a bit chubby, homely and with huge glasses. A Meg Griffin, but with a way prettier smile. The badasses with the slim and hotter girlfriends made fun of me. I simply was too weak to defend her - and too busy trying to be badass myself. I never managed to be anything even resembling badass though.


Thu May 17, 2012 3:45 pm
Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
Threeperf35 wrote:
Your words sound way too politically correct for my taste. Please forgive me, but they sometimes remind me of Yahoo articles such as "How to save your relationship" or "10 things never to do on a first date". No offense!


I'm not offended, but I don't get what's PC about anything I'm saying. Is it too PC to say "pretty girls are sometimes genuinely nice and caring people"? Perhaps my tone was too precise and unemotional, but I'd like to know what precisely is too-PC for you.

Threeperf35 wrote:
you have no idea how many people take clues from soap operas or Brazilian telenovelas (which are way, way better than US soaps - I live in Poetugal and they are shown in their original language: portuguese - the acting is usually top notch. People who pick up clues from that fluffy crap don't do it consciously, it sinks in - that's why it's so damn dangerous.


You're right. I should have been more clear: people DO take cues from stuff like that... but there are mature individuals who don't. If someone takes their cues from that, consciously or unconsciously, do you really want to be in a relationship with them, no matter how they look?


Thu May 17, 2012 4:36 pm
Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
Threeperf35 wrote:
Shade wrote:
Because this is the bottom line: if your experiences with girls leads you to believe that "all girls are that way"... perhaps you should consider that rather than take that small sample size and apply it to 5 billion girls on the planet, you should look at the smaller sample size and find the common denominator: it's you.


We obviously come from very different cultures. I am not talking from personal experience alone. And regarding gender specific behavior: I read a book or two and I work for about 20 years for the advertising business. Not that I take what the creatives say at face value, but with the right analysis there is a goldmine regarding insight into human bpsychology and behavior.
Your words sound way too politically correct for my taste. Please forgive me, but they sometimes remind me of Yahoo articles such as "How to save your relationship" or "10 things never to do on a first date". No offense!
I just wanted to say what people usually avoid unless they are standup comedians (who usually tell a lot of truths depending on the gig). BTW: you have no idea how many people take clues from soap operas or Brazilian telenovelas (which are way, way better than US soaps - I live in Poetugal and they are shown in their original language: portuguese - the acting is usually top notch. People who pick up clues from that fluffy crap don't do it consciously, it sinks in - that's why it's so damn dangerous.
I handled my first breakup poorly, I was the one who broke up. The girl was very nice but a bit chubby, homely and with huge glasses. A Meg Griffin, but with a way prettier smile. The badasses with the slim and hotter girlfriends made fun of me. I simply was too weak to defend her - and too busy trying to be badass myself. I never managed to be anything even resembling badass though.

Well I can definitely see why you feel guilty over the break-up, I could never even contemplate doing something like that. One of my girlfriends was also a bit "husky" and definitely not the supermodel type, butfor whatever reason, that only made her more attractive, I did also date a thin girl, though she wasn't the model type either. In both cases, the relationships ended due to circumstnaces beyond my control.


Thu May 17, 2012 4:49 pm
Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
Shade wrote:
I'm not offended, but I don't get what's PC about anything I'm saying. Is it too PC to say "pretty girls are sometimes genuinely nice and caring people"? Perhaps my tone was too precise and unemotional, but I'd like to know what precisely is too-PC for you.


Please don't get me wrong, but I really would rather not discuss everytghing in endless detail. Some differences in our opinions simply come from misunderstandigs because the full argumentation would take up pages upon pages.

You wrote:
"pretty girls are sometimes genuinely nice and caring people"
- that is correct. I am talking a certain "in demand" kind of beauty. It is hard to describe, can be misleaading and it is a sensitive issue (PC alert).

I had the chance to observe a group of 70 people (the portuguese gospel choir where I do the arrangements and play the Hammond), and how they behave. It's not: the prettier the more arrogant and vain. One of the reason is: beauty is not "vertical", there are different kinds of beauty. But trust me: the babes know all too well that they are babes and the hunks know all too well that they are hunks. Same with below-average looking people. It's superficial and unfair, but that's the way it is. We humans judge firsat by the image, because it is what we notice first. Our culture has refined it. And in-demand-kind-of-beauties are given a lot of freedom and credit. Unjustly. Also: people with a certain "image" need to face less obstacles in life, so their self esteem was never confronted by a sledgehammer. Sure character is an indicidual thing and very complex. But there are patterns and tendencies. I'm NOT saying everyone who is pretty is like that and everyone who is ugly is like that. I just point out patterns and tendencies. They are there.

Again: there IS a pattern, there IS a tendency. There IS such thing as gender specific behavior. To what extend it is genetic (sensitive issue alert!) and how can it be theoretically embedded into the XX combination but not in the XY combination is the subject of hot debates among scientists. Add to that epigenetics and social gender roles and things are getting really complicated. Just for starters: Women are able to give birth. This one thing alone makes such a difference in the mindset. And yes: women are NOT worse in any way than guys. It wouldn't make sense at all. If it sounded that I meant this - I would like to correct that. We guys can be pretty nasty as well (and sweet and caring for that matter).

Please allow me to retire from this conversation. After another 300 posts we will probnably agree with everything. I will hear you out since you present your argumentation in a very objective manner and you hear me out as well. Still: I prefer the shortcut. Thanks.


Thu May 17, 2012 5:25 pm
Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
As for Pedro's friend: My humble advice is: he needs a true friend watching over him. Telling im that it is normal to go through hell. It is almost unbearable. But it happens all the time - as we speak. It is NOT a personal thing. The breakup/rejection after a relationship with a woman we really love is the only thing I can imagine reducing even the toughest guys to tears. The only way IMHO is: you have to go through this phase of suffering. I am not afraid of sharing my own experiences: you still feel her, smell her, taste her. Visualize her smile, her little quirks and her voice - all painted in the most beautiful colors. A part of her is in just about everything and now you have to live without that.... kinda very tough. But you have to. I think each person handles this differently.
It is the best thing to have a dear friend 24/7 on standby - no more, no less. Because there are no words to comfort a man in such pain (I can only speak for guys because I am one). But the standby is important to help avoiding suicide or substance abuse.

Here are my wishes: all the best!!!!


Thu May 17, 2012 5:40 pm
Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
Pedro wrote:
His brother then informed facebook that he was taken to hospital to rest up. He's apparently fine. I don't know the full story of why he's there, if it's because of alcohol poisoning or what.

My question to you guys is... how do I deal with this? How do I encourage him to deal with his problems more constructively? He very well could have ended his own life tonight and I'm really ambivalent on how to feel and what to do. I realize that I wasn't anywhere close to being sympathetic in my brief conversation with him, but the last thing I wanted to tell him was the equivalent of "you're doing it wrong" in a fragile state.

My thought is that talking to you about it was a sign that he wasn't really serious about it, so it was more of a cry for help. That's a hopeful sign, because if he were really serious, he probably would have just done it.

I had a friend (Larry) who was dumped by his girlfriend of 5 years- he drank himself into a stupor, then told everyone at the house that he was going to take out the trash. His body was found by a hiker down the hill from the house the next day after he hung himself from a low-hanging tree branch. That's an example of what happens when someone isn't just using suicide as a cry for help. Incidentally, if I sound blase about it, it's because this happened over 15 years ago.


Thu May 17, 2012 5:43 pm
Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
Okay, this thread went in a completely different direction than I intended. That's the forum, though.

I'll update you guys. I hung out with my friend yesterday. He called me up when I was in the South Bay, informing me that he was in the area. We decided over the phone to play some catch and eat some food. We went to Tapioca Express to get some of that pepper crispy chicken that's probably awful for you but sounded good at the time. In the process of munching, he told me his story of what happened yesterday. The events aren't all that important, though some of it wound up being mildly amusing.

The whole getting dumped thing was just the icing on the shit cake. There were some other things factoring in, some of which is obvious (the safety blanket that is college ending, job paranoia, lack of confidence in artistic ability) and some of which I wasn't even aware of and I'm one of his best friends. That's just the kind of guy he is, though. He keeps things, certain things mind you, bottled up until it reaches a fever pitch. He's been noticeably better about this in recent years, but this is the first time it's really reached a place that was uncomfortable. Like, I've been aware and understanding of not only his girl problems, but the extent of his girl problems. Again, that's just part of it.

For what it's worth, he just started dating the girl. They weren't FBO, they weren't normal O, they weren't much really. They macked on each other a few times and had a few dates and that's about where it stops. However, it comes on the six-inch heels of a different girl that caused him several problems, ones he also drowned in alcohol (just less). I'll get to that when I address Threeperf, but the point is: under normal circumstances, he probably would've been able to deal with the girl issue without [as much] alcohol. It's just that these weren't normal circumstances for him; it was the tipping point. However, in life, sometimes it's best to acknowledge shitty circumstances as normal circumstances so you don't drink half a bottle of gin on an empty stomach. I politely told him that he needs therapy and I'd probably get some myself if I could afford it. I also politely told him that he doesn't really know how to properly deal with his problems. He agreed.

Hindsight's 20/20, but in knowing that he got upset over a girl he neither fucked nor had extended affections for, it's hard to not look at Threeperf's initial comments as a little over the top and, honestly, a little inappropriate. I say that with great respect to your knowledge and experience, but tonally you came across as really bitter. I find it hard to disagree with parts of your arguments, though, because, man, I've been used by certain ladies who were way too attractive for someone like me. I'm that guy who gave a girl a ride from one airport to another airport so she could go on a date with a bro she hadn't formally met. I has to end my friendship with her after accepting $100 to take her and a different guy from San Jose to San Francisco. I'm currently going after another lady who, while maybe not as classically pretty as the other one, is probably too pretty for me. There are three things encouraging me in my quest, though. The first is that I don't believe in "too pretty for me" anymore. Admittedly, I'm chubby and have a difficult face to admire on occasion, but I work with what I have and I refuse to let that hinder my pursuit. The second is that I know she likes me, so there's that. The third is that no matter how beautiful or nice or whatever she is, I see too much good in the content of her character. Do smoking hot ladies get the douchiest of douchenozzles? This is absolutely true. I'm the kind of guy, though, who refuses to talk to people who aren't worth my time. I decided that the $100 girl was the last person I will ever find attractive in context of beauty overcompensating for personality defects. Is the rest of the world different? I guess the rest of the world can blow me. But that's me.

Threeperf, however inappropriate, I appreciate that you spoke, and speak, without filter. I don't agree with everything that you said here and haven't agreed with everything you've said in your time here, but I admire everything you say because it always reads as, "This needs to be said!" That kind of passion, when not mixed with arrogance or Nolan obsession, is quite refreshing.


Fri May 18, 2012 1:36 am
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Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
Threeperf35 wrote:
Wowza! Just take a look at my left arm full of scares which is basically a rehearsal for suicude. Ooops now I said it.
In my experience there is nothing of purpously destructiveness complete with carefully planned finesse, which a woman can't do to you. I firmly believe that - genetically/bioligically - they don't have the very slightest idea how much and how deep we guys (or at least some of us) are able to love them. If they did, they would take it way, way more seriously and not just go for what is the easiest solution for them: a guy they don't give a shit about but who provides financial and social advantages (NOT the one who truly loves her, going for broke). Trust me: it's exactly what they do - all the time. Again and again and again and again.

Am I politically incorrect? Yes. But I challenge you to work your ass off to prove me wrong. Give it your best shot.

Why are there so many songs about lost love (written by guys) ?

My advice (be it lost love, unemployment, ailment, death of beloved ones): try to find out who is your best friend. Spill your beans. If he/she can't take it: he/she ain't your friend.
Fuck: even my own dear mum can't take what I have to say - and my very best friend is drowning in booze. Oh, did I mention that he banged my girlfriend based upon lies? There ya go.

Hang on in there guys, life sucks big hairy ass! Trust me. It's NOT personal.


What you say here is basically correct and is the rule.

The exception is finding someone different. That doesn't mean that most people won't eventually find this exception. It just means that the word "eventually" implies getting your heart pulled out of your ass a few times first.

Some will get off more lightly. Some will, quite understandably, be destroyed. But if you're not in the game (or dead in less PC terms) you'll never get the exception.

Quote:
And yes, I did my fair share of rejection myself. First time I was 16 and I handled it very poorly. The girl was clearly devastated. I never made this mistake again


When I was 21 I callously dumped my 18 year old girlfriend. I say callously. I wasn't rude or nasty or anything. That was the problem. I wasn't anything. I just cancelled her like a phone contract. Less so infact.

Through a development of social alliances she is now on the outer remit of my own circle of friends through people knowing people, knowing people etc. I've heard on good authority she f*cking hates me still to this day. 9 years have passed and at the time I genuinly had no idea how badly I must of hurt her. It pains me to think about it now so it goes both ways to some extent.

_________________
... because I'm a wild animal


Fri May 18, 2012 5:58 am
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Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
Pedro,

Glad you are there for your friend. I don't have much in the way of thoughts on suicide. I was a depressed alcoholic during much of my youth, but afaik never contemplated ending it all. Much of my depression came from unrequited love along the lines that Threeperf spoke of. Finally, along about the age of 40, I realized how much my behavior was hurting everyone else and gave up the drink. Depression and frustration still exist - just without as much fuel as before.

For the most part I finally reached the point where I realized that the world and fate are not against me. It just looks that way from a self-centered and pessimistic perspective. Some people know this from the beginning or learn at a very age, others learn it (like I have) much later in life, others never at all. Those in the each category have difficulty understanding those in the others. The only thing I can say is try to let your friend know of the good things he does for others. Try to stem the feelings of worthlessness or unworthiness as much as is reasonable and within the bounds of truth.


Tue May 22, 2012 8:57 am
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Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
Pedro wrote:
Threeperf, however inappropriate, I appreciate that you spoke, and speak, without filter. I don't agree with everything that you said here and haven't agreed with everything you've said in your time here, but I admire everything you say because it always reads as, "This needs to be said!" That kind of passion, when not mixed with arrogance or Nolan obsession, is quite refreshing.


Thanks for your honest comment. I never intended to run away with this thread and spill hatred. I am not so much frustrated as I am jaded. What might seem like the unability to see the bright side, is in fact "seen it all". Please never hesitate to point out when I cross a line - and of course feel free to disagree.

O.K. here are a few more thoughts on suicide. I never attempted it, just considered it. It is (as far as I know and heard from many others) never just for one single reason. It is when bad news pile up to an anbearable amount. Of course unanswered or rejected romantic love is very, very heavy stuff. The idea of course is NOT killing yourself - it is trying to go through the only door out that seems left. But there are other doors. Yes: people on the very edge need serious and sincere help. Self-esteem is so low, it drains out all willpower to get yourself out of that self-loathing. It's great to have a true friend in a situation like that. I highly appreciate any person honestly and truly trying to help someone on the edge. I will join the posters before in wishing the very best of luck to your friend, Pedro!


Tue May 22, 2012 11:02 am
Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
A lot of things said here that I learned the hard way. Agree with a lot that was said...

My main concern is your boy, Pedro. How's he been lately?


Wed May 23, 2012 12:26 pm
Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
I do NOT agree with Threeperf's subsequent posts about women (which tend toward philosophical misogyny) but I think it's important for every guy to know that women aren't all unconditional models of sound behavior, logic, or maturity. I think most guys expect the women they become involved with to care as unconditionally as, say, a mother does, but the truth is they're looking for their own objectives as much as we are, and can have a very flippant attitude with men, their preferences for men, and complete disregard for men who don't fulfill their quotas or prove disappointing. I'm not sure there ever was a true difference between male and female dating habit in terms of emotional dependency (as opposed to attraction, circumstance, and social status) but contemporary society, for good or ill, has completely annihilated it.


As for this situation - I'm heartened (yes, ME) that you decided to pursue this issue and provide your friend the opportunity to receive meaningful help. I personally think it's important that he addressed *you* about his problem, since to me that's an indicator that he WANTS things to work out for him, as opposed to silently brooding and slowly capitulating his life. One of my friends moved to California right after High School, and a few days before we knew anything was wrong, he was hanging lifelessly in a dormitory. If there's a will to live (and thus, the urge to progress and move on), then I hold out reasonable hope that your friend will strive to work this out, or at the very least, learn to cope with his emotional upheaval.


Wed May 23, 2012 3:10 pm
Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
Evenflow8112 wrote:
As for this situation - I'm heartened (yes, ME) that you decided to pursue this issue and provide your friend the opportunity to receive meaningful help. I personally think it's important that he addressed *you* about his problem, since to me that's an indicator that he WANTS things to work out for him, as opposed to silently brooding and slowly capitulating his life. One of my friends moved to California right after High School, and a few days before we knew anything was wrong, he was hanging lifelessly in a dormitory. If there's a will to live (and thus, the urge to progress and move on), then I hold out reasonable hope that your friend will strive to work this out, or at the very least, learn to cope with his emotional upheaval.

The silent ones are the ones most likely serious about suicide, from my own experience.


Wed May 23, 2012 11:38 pm
Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
Evenflow8112 wrote:
I do NOT agree with Threeperf's subsequent posts about women (which tend toward philosophical misogyny) but I think it's important for every guy to know that women aren't all unconditional models of sound behavior, logic, or maturity. I think most guys expect the women they become involved with to care as unconditionally as, say, a mother does, but the truth is they're looking for their own objectives as much as we are, and can have a very flippant attitude with men, their preferences for men, and complete disregard for men who don't fulfill their quotas or prove disappointing. I'm not sure there ever was a true difference between male and female dating habit in terms of emotional dependency (as opposed to attraction, circumstance, and social status) but contemporary society, for good or ill, has completely annihilated it.


For an array of reasons I will not discuss this any further. I understand that people simply don't get my point. Not that I even have one - it's about trying to understand where I'm coming from. But no: of course we are all the same, aren't we? I don't even remotely tend towards philosophical misogyny. Trust me. The limitations of being PC are too, well, limiting. Over and out.


Thu May 24, 2012 12:24 am
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Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
My thoughts on suicide: don't even attempt to do it unless you know for damn sure you're not going to have any second thoughts about doing it once you start. :|


Sat May 26, 2012 8:12 pm
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Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
H.I. McDonough wrote:
My thoughts on suicide: don't even attempt to do it unless you know for damn sure you're not going to have any second thoughts about doing it once you start. :|


Somehow, I read this as codespeak for: Make sure that you all the porn on your computer. And all the celebrity autopsy pics you DL'ed in HS. Nobody wants to be remembered for fisting and Tupac.


Sun May 27, 2012 12:29 am
Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
H.I. McDonough wrote:
My thoughts on suicide: don't even attempt to do it unless you know for damn sure you're not going to have any second thoughts about doing it once you start. :|

That should rule out the following methods:

- Slow asphyxiation
- Hanging (see Slow asphyxiation)
- Self -exsanguination
- Drowning oneself
- Death by sudden decompression (it often isn't *sudden* enough)
- Falling from a really great height (eg: jumping out of a plane over 30k feet in the air)
- Carbon monoxide poisoning
- Any other form of poisoning, really (there are no known toxins that can kill instantaneously)
- Death by organized crime (re: if you really piss them off, death could come from prolonged torture)

I'm hungry now. Time for food.


Sun May 27, 2012 12:51 am
Post Re: Your Thoughts on Suicide
Evenflow8112 wrote:
Somehow, I read this as codespeak for: Make sure that you all the porn on your computer. And all the celebrity autopsy pics you DL'ed in HS. Nobody wants to be remembered for fisting and Tupac.

Meh. Personally, I don't care if people find out a lot of weird shit about me after I die, as long as it doesn't interfere with my burial wishes: being launched into the sun in a replica of a hibernaculum from 2001: A Space Odyssey.


Sun May 27, 2012 3:49 am
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