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March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck" 
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Post March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
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Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:57 pm
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Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
More people need to write articles like this. My main beef with the rating system is how it influences studios into censoring films in order to avoid getting hit with the R stamp just because it would limit the film's profit-making ability. This in turn places a restriction on what artistic expression there is in mainstream films. Fuck the rating system, seriously.

Also, I love the double-standard that exists; put in violence, and the MPAA doesn't bat an eye, but put in sex, and they jump all over it. This is fucking hilarious in a country with the world's largest porn industry by far. Of course, America is a martial culture like many empires before it, so I guess it stands to reason that they would expose their youth to violence at the earliest age possible. They need to desensitize them so that they're more prepared to accept the idea of volunteering for military service and defending democracy.


Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:06 pm
Gaffer

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:42 pm
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Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
I frankly think it's disturbing how much violence can be shown in a PG-13 movie. Coupled with the profanity idiocy, that leads to some bizarre contortions in moviemaking.

Take The Dark Knight. Christopher Nolan follows the (sensible, in my opinion) rule that, "If you can only use 'fuck' once, don't use it at all." But it's rather unsettling to me that you can have a movie where
[Reveal] Spoiler:
a cell phone is implanted inside a guy's body, rigged to an explosive that triggers when the cell phone is called, such that the guy's body is blown up from within,
but they don't say "fuck" so it's PG-13.


Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:48 pm
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Gaffer
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Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
I used to wonder how Spaceballs, and especially Beetlejuice, got away with it. Both are PG.


Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:07 pm
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Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
I suspect you're pretty much preaching to the choir here, James, but a big thumbs-up for a well-argued piece anyway.

We live in a schizophrenic, puritanically repressed society, without question. Someday, we might actually grow up.

I don't see that happening any time in the near future, though.


Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:09 pm
Gaffer

Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:52 am
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Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
Let's also consider the flip side: the kid-safe horror movie that has a few fucks inserted purely to make it into an R, and a few more to make the "unrated edition" DVD, because it'll do better business if people think it's a gorefest or there's some chance of naked breasts. This is just as pernicious an artefact of the current system as self-censorship.

The problem I see with abandoning the rating system is that Wal*Mart would instantly step in with its own, which would be even more restrictive.


Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:27 pm
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Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
MisterG wrote:
We live in a schizophrenic, puritanically repressed society, without question. Someday, we might actually grow up.
Not to mention a society in which a small, vocal minority can claim tremendous power for itself and wield it over a majority that ought to have the good sense to know better.

It's strange that while sex is one of the best parts of life and violence is one of the worst, it's the latter that we choose to celebrate most in our mainstream entertainments.


Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:46 pm
Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
Actors are a bit behind the times as well, Chuck Norris insisted on Expendables 2 having a PG-13 rating or he wouldn't be in it, he was concerned kids being exposed to the harsh language in the script but didn't express any such concern with kids being exposed to the violence.


Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:37 pm
Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
Ken wrote:
MisterG wrote:
We live in a schizophrenic, puritanically repressed society, without question. Someday, we might actually grow up.
Not to mention a society in which a small, vocal minority can claim tremendous power for itself and wield it over a majority that ought to have the good sense to know better.

It's strange that while sex is one of the best parts of life and violence is one of the worst, it's the latter that we choose to celebrate most in our mainstream entertainments.

Welcome to "a Christian America". The sooner this country uses its brains to think through legislation instead of its faith in magic sky beings, the better off it will be.


Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:39 pm
Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
Vexer wrote:
Actors are a bit behind the times as well, Chuck Norris insisted on Expendables 2 having a PG-13 rating or he wouldn't be in it, he was concerned kids being exposed to the harsh language in the script but didn't express any such concern with kids being exposed to the violence.

"I'm sorry, good sir, but I am going to have to inflict extreme ballistic trauma upon some of your internal organs, causing copious amounts of blood plasma to issue forth."
"I understand, my good friend, but as I cannot allow that to happen, I will have to inflict a severe laceration wound upon your neck and decapitate you in the process."
"Mr. Norris, would you be so kind as to introduce your fist into this gentleman's rectal cavity for the purpose of inflicting extreme blunt traumatic force to his digestive tract?"


Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:45 pm
Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
Ragnarok73 wrote:
Ken wrote:
MisterG wrote:
We live in a schizophrenic, puritanically repressed society, without question. Someday, we might actually grow up.
Not to mention a society in which a small, vocal minority can claim tremendous power for itself and wield it over a majority that ought to have the good sense to know better.

It's strange that while sex is one of the best parts of life and violence is one of the worst, it's the latter that we choose to celebrate most in our mainstream entertainments.

Welcome to "a Christian America". The sooner this country uses its brains to think through legislation instead of its faith in magic sky beings, the better off it will be.

It's not even necessarily a Christian thing, lots of people, religious and non-religious alike support the MPAA.


Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:05 pm
Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
Ragnarok73 wrote:
Vexer wrote:
Actors are a bit behind the times as well, Chuck Norris insisted on Expendables 2 having a PG-13 rating or he wouldn't be in it, he was concerned kids being exposed to the harsh language in the script but didn't express any such concern with kids being exposed to the violence.

"I'm sorry, good sir, but I am going to have to inflict extreme ballistic trauma upon some of your internal organs, causing copious amounts of blood plasma to issue forth."
"I understand, my good friend, but as I cannot allow that to happen, I will have to inflict a severe laceration wound upon your neck and decapitate you in the process."
"Mr. Norris, would you be so kind as to introduce your fist into this gentleman's rectal cavity for the purpose of inflicting extreme blunt traumatic force to his digestive tract?"

Good one! :lol:


Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:06 pm
Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
Vexer wrote:
It's not even necessarily a Christian thing, lots of people, religious and non-religious alike support the MPAA.

It's mostly the Christian right-wing assholes who drive the prudishness behind MPAA ratings.


Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:19 pm
Assistant Second Unit Director

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:55 pm
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Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
Quote:
Of course, America is a martial culture like many empires before it, so I guess it stands to reason that they would expose their youth to violence at the earliest age possible. They need to desensitize them so that they're more prepared to accept the idea of volunteering for military service and defending democracy


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:37 pm
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Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
Ragnarok73 wrote:
Vexer wrote:
It's not even necessarily a Christian thing, lots of people, religious and non-religious alike support the MPAA.

It's mostly the Christian right-wing assholes who drive the prudishness behind MPAA ratings.

True, and the MPAA is made up of right-wing extremists, they rarely let anybody join the organization for fear of being forced in a new direction.


Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:41 pm
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Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
I was in my local grocery store the other day and was surprised to see that a handful of Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue covers turned around in their racks. It amazes me how many parents seem to live in fear of their kids discovering how to jerk off at an early age (or, at least, much earlier than they'd prefer). :|

As for the profanity issue, I heard the F-bomb in the halls of my junior high and high school on a regular basis... so by that logic, they'd also be slapped with R ratings. :P Any parent who thinks their public school kids won't hear more than one profane word a day is an idiot. :roll:


Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:45 pm
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Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
I'm a Christian pastor who's posted here a few times (and read James for a long time), and I'm quite conservative overall, so I'd like to weigh in on this.

There are people who don't like anything they don't like in a movie. Could be violence, sex, profanity...doesn't really matter. Sometimes it's all three. Occasionally I'll hear about it. It annoys me. If you go to a movie that's PG-13, expect that there's going to be some material in it that offends you. If you don't like it, don't go. The current rating system tells you what will offend you. If you can't pay attention to it, that's your fault. And if you take your young kids to a movie beyond a PG without checking on Common Sense or Kids-In-Mind, then shame on you. All in all, I don't see that taking offense at what someone else does in their film does anybody any good when that content is easily able to be discerned through a variety of sources before ever leaving for the theater.

But my problem with the language issue as described in the case of Bully is that it's not really an issue at all. It is a ploy to get attention, something anybody who's ever followed the Weinsteins knows they do brilliantly. Bleep it out. If the MPAA doesn't like that you can see the word, digitally fuzz the screen. Everyone will know. So what?

If this documentary is something every school-age child should see, then going all auteur and stating that it "compromises the vision" is just BS. If you think it might save lives, then is dropping a couple of swear words really that important? Because as we all know, even the most profane movies get themselves shown in neutered form on television. If it really mattered to Hollywood, they wouldn't allow that to happen. They let it happen because they aren't in it for the art; they are in it for the money.

What's more, it's not like the Weinsteins are coming up against a new rule that hasn't been in place for the last 30 years (give or take a Running on Empty or two). They've had this argument before as recently as The King's Speech. You may not like the rules, but as the article points out, even educated laymen know them. It's not as if they made the movie and then said, "Whoops, we didn't know."

Ultimately, we have to ask ourselves if we believe movies merely reflect society or shape society. If they shape society, then perhaps we should reconsider the language we put out there in our entertainment. Does any of us, regardless of religious or moral beliefs, really think we are a better society for the amount of swearing we can do? Forget moral -- our culture is simply less civil than it used to be. It wouldn't hurt for our entertainment to be a little more civil as well. Just a thought from an under-40 fuddy duddy. :D


Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:50 pm
Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
Vexer wrote:
Ragnarok73 wrote:
It's mostly the Christian right-wing assholes who drive the prudishness behind MPAA ratings.
True, and the MPAA is made up of right-wing extremists, they rarely let anybody join the organization for fear of being forced in a new direction.

Vexter, want to cite any sources besides yourself? This Film Is Not Yet Rated showed us that the MPAA's raters aren't people who have children affected by the rating system, which is a real problem. The appeals board is made up of folks from the industry. And the Protestant clergyperson, Jim Wall (at least as of 2005)? Strongly left-wing theologically and politically with a strong anti-Semitic streak and a key person in campaigns for Carter and Clinton. (Don't take my word for it -- check it out online). You can make arguments that the MPAA is secretive -- it is. You can make arguments that they've made mistakes -- they have. But right-wing extremists? Nah. Truth is, left-wing extremists are just as interested in censorship as right-wing extremists...they just want to censor different things. ;)


Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:00 pm
Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
AkiraKaneda wrote:
Vexer wrote:
Ragnarok73 wrote:
It's mostly the Christian right-wing assholes who drive the prudishness behind MPAA ratings.
True, and the MPAA is made up of right-wing extremists, they rarely let anybody join the organization for fear of being forced in a new direction.

Vexter, want to cite any sources besides yourself? This Film Is Not Yet Rated showed us that the MPAA's raters aren't people who have children affected by the rating system, which is a real problem. The appeals board is made up of folks from the industry. And the Protestant clergyperson, Jim Wall (at least as of 2005)? Strongly left-wing theologically and politically with a strong anti-Semitic streak and a key person in campaigns for Carter and Clinton. (Don't take my word for it -- check it out online). You can make arguments that the MPAA is secretive -- it is. You can make arguments that they've made mistakes -- they have. But right-wing extremists? Nah. Truth is, left-wing extremists are just as interested in censorship as right-wing extremists...they just want to censor different things. ;)

True, movie-censorship seems to be one of the few things that both political sides agree with.


Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:47 pm
Gaffer

Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:17 am
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Post Re: March 16, 2012: "The PG-13 Fuck"
Ironically, I'd argue that junior high is far worse than high school for profanity. I drove a school bus and some of the stuff coming out of these young teenager's mouths is so ridiculously profane that it's funny. They know they aren't supposed to be using that language, so they fling it around like a forbidden toy. By the time they get to high school they have refined their use of it a bit. They still swear a lot, but it's more 'normal' usage.

Beetlejuice and Spaceballs were made in a different time. If they were to be re-released today they would be PG-13 for sure. One of the few things the MPAA does right is they don't arbitrarily re-rate movies.

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Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:38 am
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