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The Official NFL Thread 
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Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
I know it was just a pipe dream, and a one in a billion shot chance, but I would've loved to see Marshawn Lynch in a Jets uniform. Stupid franchise tags...


Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:18 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Shade wrote:
Evenflow8112 wrote:
As long as they have Jay 'I haven't proven anything' Cutler at QB, I'm holding off on suggesting anything resembling a Super Bowl run.


Umm... we realize that Culter is, oh, 10 times the QB Smith is, right? Yes, it's a very tough division, but Marshall has been great at times.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
not totally sold on Moss as a super-power, but I don't see the harm in trying it out.


Serious question: How about the fact that Smith is by all accounts (including your own a page or two back) one of the mentally weakest QBs we've ever seen? Couldn't it hurt if Moss expresses unhappiness with him publicly?

Evenflow8112 wrote:
I'm not even sure how that deal even made the front-page headlines at ESPN.com.


That's a Vexer-level of lunacy right there, holmes. ;)



1. When did I compare the two? I think playoffs football requires some intangibles to go along with skill. Smith wasn't a great quarterback in the playoffs, but he made big plays in both games he played that essentially kept his team on pace to win. There is nothing to indicate that Cutler has that same ability, not matter what his talent indicates. I'd also argue that Flacco is more talented as well (he has much better arm strength), but I liked Smith's play throughout this year's playoffs better.

2. Whoa, whoa. I said he's a sensitive guy, not mentally weak. As for Moss, again, he is shackled by his situation. I'm sure he doesn't want to find himself playing arena football games in Texas. My guess is, again, he'll try his hardest to be a tea player, and if that really doesn't work, I don't see Harbaugh tolerating it in-season. If the trade is unnecessary, which it may very well end up being, then the Niners lose nothing on the gamble. Alex Smith managed to triumph over a 4th and 6 in Detroit for the winning touchdown pass, survive two crushing blows by the Ravens and Cardinals towards the end of the season to emerge victorious against the Steelers, Seahawks (in Seattle, never a nice place to find yourself battling for playoff seeding) and Saints before losing in admittedly dubious fashion a game that he had by all means put the Niners in position to win. He wasn't the reason they lost, and his 12 of 26 isn't much worse percentage-wise than Manning's performance in that same game. It was also, by the way, with his 2 TDs and 0 INTs, statistically a better game than Tom Brady had against the Giants. I argued all season against Smith being a game manager, but if he is (I'm not agreeing, but let's roll with it), then he exemplified exactly the upside of the phrase. In 19 games, he threw 22 TDs, 5 INTs, and completed well over 50% of his passes. In the playoffs, he was 5-0 TD-to-INT. Alex Smith is obviously not elite, but he didn't have a good season or a middle-of-the-pack one. He had a sharp, consistently amazing season where he served as an integral part of the Niner's victories. The perception about Smith seems to be that he's incompetent, and this is simply not so. And as for Dilfer and Johnson (you had to be kidding when name-dropping those guys, Pete), Smith is much superior. If anyone wants to label Smith a game manager, they are more than free to - in my opinion, his season was the picture image of a quarterback who is obviously not elite unselfishly understanding his role and executing it without flaw. I suppose the Niners could have been more dominant, but again, they were still one of the best 3 or 4 teams in the NFL by season's end. Alex Smith is a curiosity to me in that, while he's definitely not elite, he's capable of doing great things that a 'game manager' simply isn't expected to do - and we found out during the last season that he can deliver on big-game situations. He was poor at the end of the Giants-Niners game, but expecting him to go from has-been to savior of the team (which Harbaugh uncharacteristically positioned him to do instead of logically pounding the running game after the game was tied up) isn't realistic. Peyton Manning doesn't always do that, either (anyone here a Chargers fan?). Alex Smith deserves a pittance of blame for what happened to the Niners in the NFC Championship game (and believe you me when I say I watched it intently), but he only gets whatever is left after you go and determine that, thanks to two freak accidents, the Niners coughed up great field position and ten points to a team that was very good at taking advantage of miscues. Forget Kyle Williams twittter-hate, death-threats, whatever - that is what happened. He was the guy who delivered us to those situations, but those were the cold hard facts regardless. I'm perfectly fine with saying Alex Smith doesn't deserve to be on the same list as a Tom Brady or a Big Ben. That's only sensible. But if you're lumping him in with guys like Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer, then you're being ignorant of qualities that divide him form those very same quarterbacks. The Niners don't owe an arm and a leg to Smith, I suppose, but flat summations of him aren't approaching credibility when you attempt to tie him to undeniably mediocre talent.

3. Well, when you consider the NBA's trade deadline is looming and Peyton is still moseying around the country, then yes, a front-page headline about Brandon Marshall is bound to receive some apathy. I'm not sure it actually changes anything. Football is a lot like baseball, in that, when you add offensive pieces (besides a quarterback or halfback), you're not always getting a flat, expected result, and their ability to adapt to the team's dynamics are essentially a crapshoot. And let's face it, WRs are notorious to fluctuate from team to team.


Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:27 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Timmy Shoes wrote:
I know it was just a pipe dream, and a one in a billion shot chance, but I would've loved to see Marshawn Lynch in a Jets uniform. Stupid franchise tags...



Well, at least Marshawn gets to keep his butt-ugly Seahawks uniform for another season.


As for Sanchez being re-signed, well... that's why they're the Jets. Peyton Manning was always a pipe dream for them, but I think the Jets over-achieved during their first two playoff runs. It's going to take a Herculean effort from that same team to even make the playoffs next season, and I'm not sure Sanchez has proven himself up to adapting under pressure. I guess we'll see.


Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:30 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Evenflow8112 wrote:
1. When did I compare the two? I think playoffs football requires some intangibles to go along with skill. Smith wasn't a great quarterback in the playoffs, but he made big plays in both games he played that essentially kept his team on pace to win. There is nothing to indicate that Cutler has that same ability, not matter what his talent indicates. I'd also argue that Flacco is more talented as well (he has much better arm strength), but I liked Smith's play throughout this year's playoffs better.


We all know that all sports require intangibles. But look at the stats for Cutler's playoff performances and Smith's -- they're virtually the same, so to say there is "nothing to indicate Cutler has the same ability" is to ignore the facts. You can say: I've seen both play, I know Cutler's had a better career, but I simply want Smith on my team more." That's fine, but that's worlds away from saying there's no reason to believe in Culter more.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
He had a sharp, consistently amazing season


He had a sharp and consistent season. It's only "amazing" in the sense that we were all amazed he was capable of being an astute game manager. But if that's a standard for an amazing QB performance, then few teams didn't have an amazing season from their QB.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
But if you're lumping him in with guys like Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer, then you're being ignorant of qualities that divide him form those very same quarterbacks. The Niners don't owe an arm and a leg to Smith, I suppose, but flat summations of him aren't approaching credibility when you attempt to tie him to undeniably mediocre talent.


Dilfer, okay. Gama manager to the core. But Brad Johnson at his peak (97, 99, 02) was simply better than we've yet to see Smith. Do I personally think Smith will top that eventually? Yes I do. But when you[ try to dismiss him, it starts to smell like your credibility in evaluating Johnson is suspect.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
. Well, when you consider the NBA's trade deadline is looming and Peyton is still moseying around the country, then yes, a front-page headline about Brandon Marshall is bound to receive some apathy. I'm not sure it actually changes anything. Football is a lot like baseball, in that, when you add offensive pieces (besides a quarterback or halfback), you're not always getting a flat, expected result, and their ability to adapt to the team's dynamics are essentially a crapshoot. And let's face it, WRs are notorious to fluctuate from team to team.


Evenflow8112 wrote:
3. Well, when you consider the NBA's trade deadline is looming and Peyton is still moseying around the country, then yes, a front-page headline about Brandon Marshall is bound to receive some apathy. I'm not sure it actually changes anything. Football is a lot like baseball, in that, when you add offensive pieces (besides a quarterback or halfback), you're not always getting a flat, expected result, and their ability to adapt to the team's dynamics are essentially a crapshoot. And let's face it, WRs are notorious to fluctuate from team to team.


Again, we all know trades in the NFL are not as predictable in their impact as the NBA or baseball, but Culter is an undeniable QB talent who has had no reasonable targets. The ceiling of expectations must be raised, but given the price, this was as safe a move as the Moss one was.


Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:52 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Bears sign Eric Weems to a three-year deal. Interesting move. Now with another pro-bowl return specialist, you can't kick away from Hester. Or maybe they're planning on taking Hester out of the kicking game completely. I don't see either Weems or Hester as an effective full-time WR. Not sure what to make of this move. At least the Bears are doing something.

Now if they can sign Mario Williams...


Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:24 am
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Ladies and gentlemen, I offer you the single most important NFC North development of the week:


AP wrote:
An NFL source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter that the contract is worth $132 million and includes $60 million guaranteed. Johnson's contract is the richest deal ever for an NFL wide receiver, exceeding the $120 million deal Larry Fitzgerald signed with the Arizona Cardinals last year.

The extension puts Johnson under contract with the Lions through the 2019 season. The team is holding a news conference at 1 p.m. ET.

He was set to enter the final season of the deal he signed as the No. 2 pick overall in the 2007 draft.

Johnson earned All-Pro honors for the first time last season with a league-best 1,681 yards receiving. He followed up with 211 yards receiving against New Orleans in the playoffs, setting a league record for a player in his postseason debut.


Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:26 am
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Manning is a Bronco. I'm sad he isn't a Niner (which would have been nice, but oh well), but at least he's not a Titan. Thank you, Lord.


I think it's a bad move, since the Broncos were over-achievers to begin with and easily the weakest team of the three candidates. I suppose I can take this to mean that Manning is happy with his place in history, and not necessarily interested in contending for a Super Bowl. He has no shot at that with this deal, in my opinion.


Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:28 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Let us not lose sight of the important things.

LaRon Landry will be playing for the Green and White in 2012.

This is good news.


Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:16 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Evenflow8112 wrote:
I think it's a bad move, since the Broncos were over-achievers to begin with and easily the weakest team of the three candidates. I suppose I can take this to mean that Manning is happy with his place in history, and not necessarily interested in contending for a Super Bowl. He has no shot at that with this deal, in my opinion.


I'm not so sure about that. They have an excellent offensive line, 2 quality young WRs, and a really good running game (although they need a younger, better RB). Their defense, outside of playing New England and Detroit, was very good. We all know going from Tebow to Manning is about as big an upgrade at the QB position as you can get. They're the favorites in that division right now (assuming Manning actually is healthy), and as we've seen the past few years, once you're in the playoffs, regular season records get thrown out of the window.

Timmy Shoes wrote:
Let us not lose sight of the important things.

LaRon Landry will be playing for the Green and White in 2012.

This is good news.


Yes. Good news for the rest of the AFC East. Having watched almost every one of his games in his career, I can safely say that he's complete crap. He's more interested in bodybuilding than playing football. He can't cover anyone. Literally. Anyone. Like, he probably would have a difficult time covering you or me. He can hit and make some highlight reel plays, but he's often out of position, and even when he's in position, there's no guarantee this won't happen to him again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaj2oO0jAC8


Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:10 am
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Timmy Shoes wrote:
Let us not lose sight of the important things.

LaRon Landry will be playing for the Green and White in 2012.

This is good news.


Nothing that has happened for the Jets over the past year is good news. This is, therefore, impossible.

PeachyPete wrote:
Evenflow8112 wrote:
I think it's a bad move, since the Broncos were over-achievers to begin with and easily the weakest team of the three candidates. I suppose I can take this to mean that Manning is happy with his place in history, and not necessarily interested in contending for a Super Bowl. He has no shot at that with this deal, in my opinion.


I'm not so sure about that. They have an excellent offensive line, 2 quality young WRs, and a really good running game (although they need a younger, better RB). Their defense, outside of playing New England and Detroit, was very good. We all know going from Tebow to Manning is about as big an upgrade at the QB position as you can get. They're the favorites in that division right now (assuming Manning actually is healthy), and as we've seen the past few years, once you're in the playoffs, regular season records get thrown out of the window.


I actually disagree strongly. If Phillip Rivers has a season where he starts strong and finishes strong (which is still the rule, not the exception), then the Chargers should be favored for the same reason the Eagles should be favored for winning the NFC East this year (and if you're smart, you'll pick them too); they're a majorly talented team that found their footing late and started not just winning, but demolishing their opponents more often than not (in fact, if either team went to the playoffs, they'd both have major advantages over their conference champions, respectively). Losing Vincent Jackson has to hurt, but landing Decker was a small coup that people will emphatically discover when he's racking up receptions. Rivers' improved passing game over Tebow will only help him be a more accomplished receiver, and don't doubt that Norv Turner feels like a lightning struck victim who walked away from the light. San Diego should be legitimately dangerous next year, and, just to add some ironic but well-deserved truth as well - there's no team that has Peyton Manning's number like the Chargers. Never has been. The number of promising Colts seasons they've destroyed is well-documented; I think Manning might find a very ironic Achilles Tendon in a division that looks no more threatening on paper than the NBA's Atlantic Division. You can say he makes them a better team, absolutely. A lock to win the division? Not so, even if Peyton is healthy.


Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:07 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Evenflow8112 wrote:
they're a majorly talented team that found their footing late and started not just winning, but demolishing their opponents more often than not (in fact, if either team went to the playoffs, they'd both have major advantages over their conference champions, respectively).


I think you might be remembering the Chargers of 2 or 3 or 4 years ago and not the team they've become. Rivers always had guys like Jackson and Gates, who were elite talents, to throw to. Jackson's gone and Gates is not even close to what he was (but still a quality TE). They don't have LT anymore, they don't have Sproles, they just released their longtime left tackle in Marcus McNeil, and Mike Tolbert left via free agency. Ryan Mathews is a good young back, but he's not even close to elite. I mean, look at their offensive depth chart and tell me someone outside of Rivers that screams "super talented".

Defensively, they were about as mediocre as you could get last year. Outside of Antwan Barnes they're terrible at rushing the passer (and Barnes racked up 4 of his 11 sacks against the freaking Bills), they ranked in the middle of the pack in yards allowed, and close to the bottom 10 in points allowed. Simply put, their defense wasn't very good last year. They don't do anything exceptionally well, and don't have a single player that anyone would consider elite.

It just isn't very accurate to categorize San Diego as a hugely talented team when the only elite player they have at any position is Rivers. Granted, it's at the most important position, but elite QBs still need help.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
Losing Vincent Jackson has to hurt, but landing Decker was a small coup that people will emphatically discover when he's racking up receptions. Rivers' improved passing game over Tebow will only help him be a more accomplished receiver, and don't doubt that Norv Turner feels like a lightning struck victim who walked away from the light.


Not sure what you mean here, as Decker is still a Denver Bronco and will have Peyton Manning throwing to him.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
You can say he makes them a better team, absolutely. A lock to win the division? Not so, even if Peyton is healthy.


I called Denver the favorites, not a lock. Any team in the NFL can win any division in any year. The sport is all about parity in its current form. Nothing should surprise anyone in the NFL these days. We've seen too many teams go from horrible to really good in a matter of months too many times to be shocked by a team coming out of nowhere to be great. That said, I think it's pretty safe to say the team that won 8 games last year (the same amount as San Diego and Oakland) with Tim Tebow playing QB, and then added Peyton Manning in the offseason to replace him, is the clear cut favorite going into the season. Of course that can change and it guarantees nothing, but that should go without saying.


Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:42 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Denver traded Tebow to the Jets for a 4th round pick....


WHAT THE FUCK?

:shock: :? :| :oops: :evil: :( :o


Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:55 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
PeachyPete wrote:

Evenflow8112 wrote:
Losing Vincent Jackson has to hurt, but landing Decker was a small coup that people will emphatically discover when he's racking up receptions. Rivers' improved passing game over Tebow will only help him be a more accomplished receiver, and don't doubt that Norv Turner feels like a lightning struck victim who walked away from the light.


Not sure what you mean here, as Decker is still a Denver Bronco and will have Peyton Manning throwing to him.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
You can say he makes them a better team, absolutely. A lock to win the division? Not so, even if Peyton is healthy.


I called Denver the favorites, not a lock. Any team in the NFL can win any division in any year. The sport is all about parity in its current form. Nothing should surprise anyone in the NFL these days. We've seen too many teams go from horrible to really good in a matter of months too many times to be shocked by a team coming out of nowhere to be great. That said, I think it's pretty safe to say the team that won 8 games last year (the same amount as San Diego and Oakland) with Tim Tebow playing QB, and then added Peyton Manning in the offseason to replace him, is the clear cut favorite going into the season. Of course that can change and it guarantees nothing, but that should go without saying.



Eddie Royal** Wrong Bronco, same sentiment.


They are most certainly perceived as the favorite. The public is silly, and therefore they assume Peyton will the Broncos a Super Bowl. I think Peyton made possibly the worst choice of his career by picking Denver. I expect next season to bare this sentiment, even in the midst of the good numbers I except him to still be capable of. It won't take long for the public to overrated a 4-1 or 5-0 start, but let's see. I say now, officially, that I expect him to net four playoff wins, tops, in the next five years. And not necessarily consecutively.


Timmy Shoes wrote:
Denver traded Tebow to the Jets for a 4th round pick....


WHAT THE FUCK?

:shock: :? :| :oops: :evil: :( :o



"Nothing that has happened for the Jets over the past year is good news." Glad I didn't have to re-type anything there. Sean Payton's also been suspended for a year. Gregg Williams' punishment hasn't been handed out yet - apparently, the hangman's noose had a knot or two in it. Expect it to be up and running by tomorrow morning.


Last but not least, apparently the Niners budged and gave Smith a better contract than he was supposed to receive. So much for an organization that historically treats its players like crap (although obviously Smith doesn't feel amazing about what transpired, either) and makes a million missteps in ensuring quality talent comes to them. They retain all 11 defensive starters, bolster the receiving corp (I'll trade Josh Morgan for Manningham - Moss is just icing on the cake if he plays well) and lose one crappy-bordering-on-decent offensive tackle (Snyder). Good offseason for them, on the curve. If they manage to upgrade through the draft (which teams with great coaches usually manage to do), then we're going to see a promising Niners season unfold next year. It could all go wrong, sure, but I'm confident in what the Niners are doing now. They're finally starting to act like contenders instead of delusional millionaires. I know better than anyone that this is a positive mental change of pace.


Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:29 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Timmy Shoes wrote:
Denver traded Tebow to the Jets for a 4th round pick....


WHAT THE FUCK?

:shock: :? :| :oops: :evil: :( :o


Yipes. On the bright side, no one mentions Jesus more than Tebow and Rex do, so we'll see. :roll:

Just such a terrible move. There's no angle from which it makes sense, which probably means we should have predicted that the Jets would do this.


Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:46 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Evenflow8112 wrote:
They are most certainly perceived as the favorite. The public is silly, and therefore they assume Peyton will the Broncos a Super Bowl. I think Peyton made possibly the worst choice of his career by picking Denver. I expect next season to bare this sentiment, even in the midst of the good numbers I except him to still be capable of. It won't take long for the public to overrated a 4-1 or 5-0 start, but let's see. I say now, officially, that I expect him to net four playoff wins, tops, in the next five years. And not necessarily consecutively.


I think you're making a fairly large leap of logic here. I don't think anyone is saying the Broncos will absolutely win a Super Bowl with Manning. I don't think someone saying they're the favorite to win their (poor) division is anything remotely close to guaranteeing them a Lombardi trophy. Denver was 8-8 last year. They clearly have work to do to build that team up outside of getting Manning.

That said, given recent NFL history (I'm talking the past decade or so), to say any team that makes the playoffs has no shot at winning a Super Bowl (which you did say) is equally as silly as making the claim that Manning guarantees Denver a ring. The NFL playoffs have turned into a crapshoot. We've seen Green Bay, the Giants (twice), Arizona, and Pittsburgh all barely make the playoffs and either win the Super Bowl or make it there. The game is all about who's hot and healthy. First round byes and great regular seasons just don't mean that much anymore in the NFL. The point is, it's silly to write anyone off, or make bold predictions, in a sport where there's so much turnover year to year in who makes the playoffs and where anyone who makes the playoffs has a legitimate shot at winning it all. If you think Denver can make the playoffs with Manning (which you seemingly do), you can't say they have no shot at a ring. It ignores what the NFL has become.


Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:01 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Just read the big headline at NFL.com regarding the season-long suspension of Sean Payton and half-season-long suspension of the Saints GM (Mickey Loomis) along with the indefinite suspension of DC Gregg Williams over a "Bounty Program" that they were apparently running with their defense. Paying players for hurting opponents is nuts, just nuts- this is shocking news to me. Football is a rough enough sport as it is, but when you hear that bounties are being put on the heads of key opposing players, that just takes it to a whole new low. Small wonder that the league is imposing harsh punishment on the alleged architects.


Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:01 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
PeachyPete wrote:
I think you're making a fairly large leap of logic here. I don't think anyone is saying the Broncos will absolutely win a Super Bowl with Manning.



Actually, Vegas just put the Broncos right behind the Packer, Patriots, and Saints as the fourth most likely team to win a Super Bowl next year. That sounds like fairly substantial evidence of a perspective shift. That people think the Broncos are a better team than the Niners (who goes 13-3? everyone, apparently) is again, proving the Manning circus may actually get louder and more outsized than Tebow's. I'm staring to get nauseous.


Ragnarok73 wrote:
Just read the big headline at NFL.com regarding the season-long suspension of Sean Payton and half-season-long suspension of the Saints GM (Mickey Loomis) along with the indefinite suspension of DC Gregg Williams over a "Bounty Program" that they were apparently running with their defense. Paying players for hurting opponents is nuts, just nuts- this is shocking news to me. Football is a rough enough sport as it is, but when you hear that bounties are being put on the heads of key opposing players, that just takes it to a whole new low. Small wonder that the league is imposing harsh punishment on the alleged architects.



I'm not sure how big of a fan of the sport of football you are, but I completely agree. Just from a sane, logical point of view, the 'Bounty' system is ugly and offensive; to casual observers, it make football look barbaric and insane, and to die-hards, it saps the pleasure of enjoying the sport unaffected for the foreseeable future. The idea that bounty systems exist on a more widespread scale is particularly troubling; that we don't even know which teams, defensive prowess or weakness aside, are dipping their hands into the sinful pool that Williams was so openly swimming in is more than a little upsetting. I sincerely hope Gregg Williams doesn't get to see a football field for at least two to three years. And the Saints should have lost first-rounders. Two second-rounders seem like child's play to me, but then again, I view this situation more black and white than some others may.


P.S. Kurt Warner says the Niners are the team to beat for the Super Bowl in regards to Manning and where he should have gone.... a few months after he said we had no shot to beat New Orleans. Being a sports analyst seems slightly more difficult than swishing mouthwash correctly.


Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:17 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Evenflow8112 wrote:
Actually, Vegas just put the Broncos right behind the Packer, Patriots, and Saints as the fourth most likely team to win a Super Bowl next year. That sounds like fairly substantial evidence of a perspective shift. That people think the Broncos are a better team than the Niners (who goes 13-3? everyone, apparently) is again, proving the Manning circus may actually get louder and more outsized than Tebow's. I'm staring to get nauseous.


Vegas. Vegas Vegas Vegas. A place that feasts on idiots. Do idiots think Denver are Super Bowl favorites now? Sure. Of course. Because they're idiots. But we're not here to explain why morons are morons, right? As you said, the public is silly. And sports prognosticators (especially former athletes) are flakey on ESPN. Agreed, but we know this. If idiots perceive the Broncos as favorites...who cares? I guess I just don't get your point here.

Ragnarok73 wrote:
Just read the big headline at NFL.com regarding the season-long suspension of Sean Payton and half-season-long suspension of the Saints GM (Mickey Loomis) along with the indefinite suspension of DC Gregg Williams over a "Bounty Program" that they were apparently running with their defense. Paying players for hurting opponents is nuts, just nuts- this is shocking news to me. Football is a rough enough sport as it is, but when you hear that bounties are being put on the heads of key opposing players, that just takes it to a whole new low. Small wonder that the league is imposing harsh punishment on the alleged architects.


I agree with this, but I don't buy for a second that the punishment has anything to do with the NFL caring about player safety. They care about players as products and want to make money off of them, hence the desire for a longer season etc etc. The punishment is all about Goodell putting his foot down for a team defying him so blatantly; it's not about the NFL caring about players, because they don't.


Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:35 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Evenflow8112 wrote:
PeachyPete wrote:
I think you're making a fairly large leap of logic here. I don't think anyone is saying the Broncos will absolutely win a Super Bowl with Manning.



Actually, Vegas just put the Broncos right behind the Packer, Patriots, and Saints as the fourth most likely team to win a Super Bowl next year. That sounds like fairly substantial evidence of a perspective shift. That people think the Broncos are a better team than the Niners (who goes 13-3? everyone, apparently) is again, proving the Manning circus may actually get louder and more outsized than Tebow's. I'm staring to get nauseous.


Of course there's a perspective shift...THEY JUST REPLACED TIM TEBOW WITH PEYTON MANNING!!!! Anyone who follows football is going to say they're a much better team with that move alone. It's a reason for excitement and legitimate hope (not the false kind that Tebowmania provided them, as fun as it was).

Ranking them as the 4th most likely team to win the Super Bowl before anything other than free agency has taken place also isn't anything close to saying the Broncos will unequivocally win a Super Bowl with Manning. I just...don't really know why you'd use something like 4th place Vegas odds as evidence of that claim. Vegas odds are designed to get people to bet money. They're preying off of the recency and hoopla surrounding Manning's signing. That's just how those things work. They don't mean much and aren't terribly accurate.


Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:06 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Shade wrote:
I agree with this, but I don't buy for a second that the punishment has anything to do with the NFL caring about player safety. They care about players as products and want to make money off of them, hence the desire for a longer season etc etc. The punishment is all about Goodell putting his foot down for a team defying him so blatantly; it's not about the NFL caring about players, because they don't.


Agreed. As many writers pointed out before and during the lockout, it was not only hypocritical, but blatantly insulting to anyone with a shred of intelligence that follows the game, for the owners and Goodell to pretend like they're invested in player safety and then clamor for 2 more regular season games. They want to try to keep these guys a little healthier to make more money off of them. That's the bottom line.

As for bounties, I think this was more a way for Goodell to manipulate the media and casual fans than anything else. Bounties have been an unspoken part of football for years. Shit, Buddy Ryan was using them in the 80s with the Eagles. I can't tell you how many former players have gone on record as saying they exist. I know quite a few guys who played college ball, and not big time college ball either, and they say it's common there. I don't believe for one second that the Saints are the only team that uses, or used, bounties. They're the team that got caught and are being swallowed whole by Goodell's PR machine.

Granted, in the end it's a good thing to put an end to this kind of mindset. There's a lot wrong with the typical, old-school football mindset. Paying guys to hurt other players is one of those things. I'm for the penalties instituted because I think they begin to achieve something advantageous. They also serve as a nice, big deterrent for any other coaches or teams using the system. I just don't for one second believe Goodell is doing this out of some noble cause for player safety. He wants to make it look more and more like he's crusading for the health of the players so he can eventually get that 18 game season he and all the owners want. In the end, he'll make individual games slightly safer and then add 2 more to a season to make more money off of that.


Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:16 pm
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