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The Official NFL Thread 
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Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Evenflow8112 wrote:
Eli will be considered greater than Peyton... for half a year. There's no way any intelligent person can put Eli over Peyton


I don't think there are many people right now who would say Eli is better than Peyton. That said, I do think you're being a little harsh towards Eli here (and it pains me to stick up for him because there's no team I despise more than the Giants):

Evenflow8112 wrote:
The Giants did not win this second Super Bowl entirely thanks to Eli


This is true, but the defense and running game you mention as being so strong, was virtually non existent in the regular season. They both came around during the playoff run (the defense more than the running game), but Eli IS the reason they ended up winning their division and getting into the playoffs in the first place. He was an elite QB all season long this year, with an awful running game and a shoddy defense. He really couldn't have had less help. We've seen teams sneak into the playoffs the last few years and wind up winning, or at least going to, the Super Bowl (the Packers, Steelers, and Cardinals all come to mind), so it's a little short-sighted to discredit Eli's accomplishments because his team finally came around in the postseason after he carried them for 4 months.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
The loss of Peyton Manning was so devastating that the Colts organization has fallen entirely apart in one year due to him not playing.


I think this is largely overstated and that the Colts were in for a decline even with a healthy Manning. They haven't been an elite team in a few years due to poor drafting and aging players. My guess is they wouldn't have won the division this year with Peyton.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
Tom Brady will be in the Top Ten for QBs. His ticket to the Top 5 was immaculate play in the Super Bowl. One loss didn't send him off course, but two? I'm sorry, but that dream is over. I don't see that changing without two more titles. That's sure to draw some ire, but I stand by it.


John Elway was 2-4 in the Super Bowl. Him or Montana are usually considered the best of all time. Both are certain to appear on any top 5 list. Brady's 3-2 mark doesn't eliminate him from contention.


Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:00 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Yeah, but Elway lost with poor teams. Nobody discounts him for being an AFC QB during a span of nearly twenty years that were utterly dominated by NFC play. In fact, the first AFC team to meaningfully repeat as champions since the seventies were Elway's 97' and 98' Broncos. When Brady was surging, the AFC in general was on a tear that lasted the majority of the previous decade. Recently, the NFC has come alive again, and coincidentally, Brady is 0-2 in that timeframe. He won his titles before Rodgers geared up, before the Giants had an elite quarterback in Eli, before Drew Brees' career kicked into high-gear. His only NFC Super Bowl competition after his justifiably famous victory over Warner's slightly overrated 2001 Rams was Donovan McNabb (ugh) and Jake Delhomme (ugh, ugh). I'd consider Eli Manning to be the greatest of the above company, and the scoreboard has constantly borne out my sentiment; Brady played a weak NFC on a team with great coaching, defense, and excellent depth throughout. Once the Patriots (and again, the AFC) lost the spring in their step, they lost the fear factor from last decade. Do you think anyone is scared of Brady now? In 1989, a stunned Cris Collinsworth said that Joe Montana wasn't human. People no longer will say that about Brady. I suppose he might sneak into the Top Five, but before him should be Peyton, Elway, Favre, and Montana at the pinnacle. Throw in Bradshaw, who's record of 4-0 also beats Brady's 3-2; possibly make future room for Brees and/or Rodgers, who are undefeated in the Super Bowl and have hopefully many many seasons ahead of them. And make room for Eli. None of the last three fill in the Top Ten now, but they're all on the cusp. Suddenly, Tom Brady has some wicked company that he did not have when he ruled the land. Maybe that's not a coincidence, either. I stand by my comments. History will judge Brady by his championships first, and his stats second. And two Sundays ago, he damaged the former irreparably.


Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:40 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
So,


RG3 vs. Luck: Who do you take?


Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:25 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Well, there's no question the Colts are taking Luck. It isn't even really a debate. Maybe that's a product of groupthink, or maybe they legitimately think he's the better prospect. I think it's safe to call Luck the better prospect, mostly because of the system he played in. It was fairly close to an NFL system and is much more advanced than the Baylor spread offense RG3 is coming out of. Luck has prototypical height and size, has a great arm, and is extremely mobile (not like RG3, but he's got some wheels). The measurables combined with the success he had in college, makes him as close to a sure thing as we've seen in a while. It's why there's really no debate as to who's going #1 overall.

Griffin doesn't have prototypical size, comes from a system that's produced many, many busts at his position (even if the NFL is slowly transitioning to more spread offenses), and while he has a good arm, he doesn't have Luck's arm. He's still a great prospect, and worthy of going #2 overall, but there's just no way an NFL team is going to take him over Luck.

All that said, I'll be rooting for RG3. I love the guy. He's intelligent, competitive, and carried a fairly mediocre team this past year. I don't dislike Luck at all, but I love RG3.


Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:37 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
PeachyPete wrote:
Well, there's no question the Colts are taking Luck. It isn't even really a debate. Maybe that's a product of groupthink, or maybe they legitimately think he's the better prospect. I think it's safe to call Luck the better prospect, mostly because of the system he played in. It was fairly close to an NFL system and is much more advanced than the Baylor spread offense RG3 is coming out of. Luck has prototypical height and size, has a great arm, and is extremely mobile (not like RG3, but he's got some wheels). The measurables combined with the success he had in college, makes him as close to a sure thing as we've seen in a while. It's why there's really no debate as to who's going #1 overall.

Griffin doesn't have prototypical size, comes from a system that's produced many, many busts at his position (even if the NFL is slowly transitioning to more spread offenses), and while he has a good arm, he doesn't have Luck's arm. He's still a great prospect, and worthy of going #2 overall, but there's just no way an NFL team is going to take him over Luck.

All that said, I'll be rooting for RG3. I love the guy. He's intelligent, competitive, and carried a fairly mediocre team this past year. I don't dislike Luck at all, but I love RG3.


Let's be clear about this: I LOVE RG3. I cannot wait to see what he does as a starting QB next year (which, if there's any justice in the world, he will be doing). He's the kind of player you buy the next installment of Madden to play as, pump-faking and dashing 50 yards into the end-zone on 4th and 25.

I think Luck is simply the guy who you expect to get his team more wins, be more durable (I'm not optimistic that RG3 will go consecutive seasons without getting some kind of injury on a run/evasion), and be a model for consistent success. Look at Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Stafford... the list goes on and on. A conventional QB throwing out of his mind is the single deadliest weapon in the NFL. The best model for a player like RG3 is Michael Vick, who I also love (as a player - I'm not quite as forgiving on animal cruelty, especially perpetrated on dogs), but even he has had nagging injuries and can have his most promising talents (like mobility, better deep-ball strength) robbed from him by simple defensive schemes and attentive play on linebacker/safety. Typically, he's good for wins (Vick in 2004 was one of the hottest QBs in terms of simply out and out winning that has ever set foot on a field - think Tebow, with comprehensible talent attached), but he's not necessarily going to get you into the playoffs.

The one thing I liked most about RG3 last week is the poise and intelligence he displayed during interviews and how (and I know this is impossible to gauge or even categorize) he simply talks like a quarterback talks. He's not an athlete who happens to throw the ball, too. He is obviously totally sold on being a QB and accepting the mindset and authority of the position, which is the dividing line between good scrambling QBs and truly one-dimensional ones. A quarterback needs to be able to beat you with passing and with intelligence, and use scrambling only when all other hope is gone. I immediately got the impression that he strives to prioritize the role of quarterback over the novelty of being be a QB who gets amazing 40-times and can juke when accordingly - and if you're one of the hopefuls looking to scoop him up in the draft, this should make you even more excited. I'm definitely going to be paying more attention to RG3's stats then Luck's, no question.

Lastly, I honestly think Jim Irsay is being nearly forced to draft Luck, since the fall-out of drafting RG3 and not experiencing a dramatic windfall will be career-destroying. If Luck fails, then the sports world failed, and I don't think anybody really blames Irsay. It all goes on Luck, and maybe even Pagano; Irsay is just reciting the screenplay we've been writing for him since Luck announced his NFL ambitions. It's rare that you see a QB-split at the top of the draft, and even more rare that one player ion that split gets 100% odds to be drafted ahead of the other. Maybe Andrew's last name is apt. All I know is, again, I love the NFL and, again, I have a plethora of reasons to be excited for next season besides my own team's fortunes. September can't come soon enough.


Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:46 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
So, the New Orleans Saints go from completely reversing their postseason and regular season fortunes... to ending up on the biggest football scandal since Spygate and disputing their contract with Drew Brees.


Are we back to seeing the 'Aints' on-field? Before you answer, remember that they may be playing with half their coaching staff next season sitting at home during games. Is it time for dark days to once again begin?


Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:37 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
AND MANNING'S GONE. Sorry, Saints, but we're (I'm) back on Peyton.


And I'm sorry to say, but it may have been the right move.


Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:30 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Evenflow8112 wrote:
And I'm sorry to say, but it may have been the right move.


Yep. Right move for Indy, which is certainly not to say that Manning is done. I've been saying from the beginning that San Fran makes the most sense. He'd certainly make Miami a lot better and that division may be on its way down. Will be an interesting few weeks wwatching where he goes.


Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:46 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Shade wrote:
Evenflow8112 wrote:
And I'm sorry to say, but it may have been the right move.


Yep. Right move for Indy, which is certainly not to say that Manning is done. I've been saying from the beginning that San Fran makes the most sense. He'd certainly make Miami a lot better and that division may be on its way down. Will be an interesting few weeks wwatching where he goes.


No way he moves to San Francisco, and I cannot stress this enough: If the Niners front office does not plan to sign him/has no shot, then I implore them NOT to make any meetings with Manning or even discuss him at the water-cooler. Alex Smith needs (and deserves) every indication that he is well-regarded as their starter and needs validation in order to be his most effective (as I'd imagine most quarterbacks would). The career-breaker for Smith so far has been his very sensitive nature at times; he wilted in stressful situations in the past and has bloomed under conditions that are more accommodating, though no less frantic (ex: the game-winners at Detroit and vs. New Orleans in the playoffs). The bottom line is: he needs a positive bassline in order to make great melodies (which he is quite capable of doing). That's one reason, for example, that the Niners were SO much better at home than they were on the road. Any act the team could take that could disrupt that feeling could be very costly, and in my opinion, especially considering his rise lately, ill-advised. The Niners exited the playoffs a very angry, very competitive team; I'd say see whee the chips fall next postseason and in the meantime make the necessary re-signings and precious few (but important) acquisitions at wide receiver. They should be contending in the near future, division title or not; no need to roll the dice on a quarterback who, truth be told, doesn't even match their system.

That being said, of course I'd love it if Manning played Pro Bowl football for the Niners. But as an owner, you'd have to be clinically stupid to try it after the previous season's success. The fall-out professionally would be irrevocable if you were by chance wrong.


Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:12 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
I also think San Fran makes the most sense for a couple of reasons:

1. They need a better QB if they want to win a Super Bowl. Alex Smith had a good year last year, but I think that's about as well as we'll see him play. Sure, Kyle Williams choked away the NFC Championship Game, but Smith was dreadful in the 4th and OT of that game. The moment seemed too big for him. They're the SB favorites if they land Peyton.

2. The 49ers have an excellent team around him, and they're positioned to win. Other rumored destinations (Miami, Washington, NY Jets, Seattle, etc.) are either in a much tougher division or simply don't have the team to currently put around Manning to win in the next year or two. San Fran has an excellent defense, a top notch offensive line, good, solid RBs, and a stud TE. They probably need a little help at WR, but we all know Manning can make just about any WR look good. Wayne and Garcon are both available and my guess is at least one of those guys follow Peyton. If not, there are a bunch of free agent WRs this year to choose from. The Niners are also in a pretty dreadful division. Who's going to catch them next year whether they get Manning or not? They could be in for another 13-3 or 14-2 season this year. Manning to San Fran just makes sense.

The only other team that makes a similar amount of sense is the Texans. They're in a similar position (good talent surrounding the QB, bad division), but they at least have a pretty good QB in Schaub, when he's healthy. If Peyton wants to really stick it to Indy, who better to go to than the division rival the Colts blasted for all those years?

It's going to be a really, really interesting free agency period.


Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:33 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Phil, your speech in Smith's favor is impassioned and genuine, but doesn't it amount to a huge juggling act with Smith? If not the Manning situation, say they start the year 1-2 and Smith plays poorly and earns (deserved) scorn, couldn't that break him too? Is it worth moving forward with such a fragile guy at QB? He was certainly fine last year, but he was hardly more than a manager for one of the league's worst offenses. I get what you're saying, but I just feel like if they got Manning for two years and then moved on to Kaepernick or someone like that that they won't be much worse off then they are right now, and as Petey said...

PeachyPete wrote:
They need a better QB if they want to win a Super Bowl


...they're not winning it all with Smith. Not next year. Probably not any year. With Peyton? At least there's a chance.

PeachyPete wrote:
The only other team that makes a similar amount of sense is the Texans. They're in a similar position (good talent surrounding the QB, bad division), but they at least have a pretty good QB in Schaub, when he's healthy. If Peyton wants to really stick it to Indy, who better to go to than the division rival the Colts blasted for all those years?


Another factor is that the Texans are built for the bootleg and run it all the time. Obviously they'd cater to Manning's strengths if he came, but they'd have to totally rework their offense.


Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:01 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Shade wrote:
PeachyPete wrote:
The only other team that makes a similar amount of sense is the Texans. They're in a similar position (good talent surrounding the QB, bad division), but they at least have a pretty good QB in Schaub, when he's healthy. If Peyton wants to really stick it to Indy, who better to go to than the division rival the Colts blasted for all those years?


Another factor is that the Texans are built for the bootleg and run it all the time. Obviously they'd cater to Manning's strengths if he came, but they'd have to totally rework their offense.


That's a very good point, although I think their running game would still work just fine. Those bootlegs are something Shanahan and Kubiak used a lot in Denver and both have taken that with them elsewhere. It really only effects the passing game, as the bootlegs are only successful based on the threat of the running game. Point being, if you can't run the ball well, those bootlegs aren't going to work. The Texans can, and that isn't going to change.

The passing game would need reworking, however with Manning, Andre Johnson, and a RB in Foster very capable of catching passes out of the backfield, I think they would be just fine. You're right in that the bootlegs would be virtually non-existent given Manning's injury concerns and lack of general mobility. Still, assuming he's healthy, I can't really forsee a Peyton Manning led offense, with a great running game and elite passing targets, failing.


Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:37 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
So, the Niners land Moss. I think I've just been given the greatest sports conundrum known to man. We all knew the Niners needed more receivers who could catch the field. We all knew Randy Moss was coming back to the league and looking for a second (or sixth?) chance. And we all know that in Niners' lore, there is Jerry Rice, and then there is Terrell Owens as the successor. And you probably know that Terrell Owens is my absolute favorite football player of all time (possibly tied with Peyton Manning - bad year for Phil's Favorite Athletes so far). So Randy Moss being a Niner with the team arguably being at its strongest since about a decade earlier (they were certainly better than the 02' playoffs incarnation), and the potential to win a Super Bowl if we simply tweaked the few flaws that barely sunk the team last season, I am left in a bit of a morass. I want the team to succeed, which is always the forefront, but I've never liked Moss and always thought that, compared to Owens' ability and drive, was overrated among the two. The fact that my favorite team is giving him the chance to break his TD tie with Owens for second all-time, and thus, consequently, confirming his superiority historically, makes me oddly uncomfortable. It's an excellent problem to have, to be sure; if Moss has tremendous success as a Niner it would be a season-changer. But it's definitely put me in a weird mood about the signing. I'm not at all worried that he'll destroy the locker room (it would end his career effectively if he failed yet again, and Harbaugh wouldn't put up with any pri madonna nonsense for one second), and it's only a year-log investment, so if he's a flop and/or flames out, there's a short half-life to the effect it will have on the team, which should be good and in contention for the next few years. I'm excited about the prospect of what Moss could do for the team if he's truly back to form (or something approaching it), but it is still just a weird position for me emotionally. I'll take it over being a Colts fan watching Andrew Luck taking the team's snaps in foreseeable future, though. That's just going to be bizarre for everybody.


As for the AFC South: The Texans are in many ways an embarrassment, and at least a disappointment. Manning goes down (and, consequently, so do the Colts) and they 'eek'ed out a division title over a Tennessee team with no identity? I'm not saying T.J. Yates was amazing, but on paper alone, with that running game and that 'D', they should have been more than puzzling competitively. Yates avoided mistakes, and as anyone who watched the Niner's season can attest, a QB who generally avoids mistakes and keeps the team running smoothly gives any truly good team a chance to win. So if the Texan's 'D' was anywhere near a good as people say it is (I think it's not), then they should have been contenders until the end. Instead they couldn't even take a game that Baltimore was nearly giving them in the second round. Peyton Manning's arrival in Houston would not be comparable to him being plugged in as a Niner, where he would almost be guaranteed Vegas odds at winning a Super Bowl. That being said, Smith was not an inconsequential QB like Yates as he was consistently low-key with his performances (until the Saints game, where he essentially made 49ers history). Yet perhaps that's what the Niners needed - in my opinion, any team that needs its quarterback to score four touchdowns a game is largely a failure on the whole. You could say the Giants are the exception, yet I credit them with avoiding mistakes AS A TEAM the entire postseason. The started winning when they honored and matched Manning's level of play, not when they solely depended on it. The other teams I would describe as such (The Saints, Packers, and Patriots) were incredible disappointments. How do you lose by a blowout, at home, in the postseason, if Rodgers is your starter? You must have a few rather deep issues as a team.


P.S. - The only QB in San Fran I'm worried about is Kaepernick - if Smith ever goes down (which seems unlikely), then we're rushing out a rookie who frankly never made much a of a splash in his time on field and doesn't look all that good on paper. Maybe backing up Smith a viably experienced QB would be wise to take some pressure off. Nobody in Ninersland is pondering the prospects of a back-up that most people would need to google to learn how to spell his name properly ( <.<, >.>).


Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:47 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Shade wrote:

PeachyPete wrote:
They need a better QB if they want to win a Super Bowl


...they're not winning it all with Smith. Not next year. Probably not any year. With Peyton? At least there's a chance.


Not on board here. They can win with Smith. But it certainly won't be because Smith suddenly turned into Joe Montana. They'll need to have a complete team performance. As evidenced by last postseason, even elite QB play alone doesn't get you a 'W'. It's about your successes and strengths as a team. There will be moments when the QB is summoned upon to be great, but Smith did no less than Eli Manning did late against the Niners for every single possession after the third quarter, excepting the drives where Kyle Williams essentially gave the Giants our addresses, the times when we slept, and the keys to our house. He wasn't the dividing factor, which you can certainly use against him in some ways, but if the receiving core offers more support and Ted Guinn plays? Super Bowl No. 6. I'm not even taking a Niners-Pats Super Bowl (with Gronkoswki injured!) seriously. We would have flat-out won that. The pain of pretty much knowing that is probably the worst I have of all last season.


Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:53 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
As a Jets fan, I couldn't be happier about the resigning of Mark Sanchez and Sione Pouha. Going after Peyton would've been the death of our future. We still have a lot of holes to fill, but I was really worried about losing Pouha. He's been steadily improving his whole career and I think the next 2 years will be his peak. One of the most underrated nose tackles around.


Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:13 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Evenflow8112 wrote:
So, the Niners land Moss.


It's one of the most unnecessary, needless signings I can remember. The last time we saw Moss he was fresh off of being cut by 3 teams in one season. He couldn't even find employment last year. I'm really supposed to believe that a 35 year old diva WR, who no one wanted last year, and everyone couldn't get rid of fast enough the year before, is going to "return to form"? It's a joke. He's done. The Niners are desperate for receivers, but man, there's a handful of free agents this year that would have made for a much better signing.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
Not on board here. They can win with Smith. But it certainly won't be because Smith suddenly turned into Joe Montana. They'll need to have a complete team performance. As evidenced by last postseason, even elite QB play alone doesn't get you a 'W'. It's about your successes and strengths as a team. There will be moments when the QB is summoned upon to be great, but Smith did no less than Eli Manning did late against the Niners for every single possession after the third quarter, excepting the drives where Kyle Williams essentially gave the Giants our addresses, the times when we slept, and the keys to our house. He wasn't the dividing factor, which you can certainly use against him in some ways, but if the receiving core offers more support and Ted Guinn plays? Super Bowl No. 6. I'm not even taking a Niners-Pats Super Bowl (with Gronkoswki injured!) seriously. We would have flat-out won that. The pain of pretty much knowing that is probably the worst I have of all last season.


Alex Smith had a decent season last year, his first one in his seven years. His regular season numbers (3100 yards, 17 TDs, 5 INTs, 61% completion percentage) are middle of the pack. He's a game manager who isn't expected to go out and win games, he just isn't supposed to fuck them up. That's why the Saints game in the playoffs was so surprising. He went out and won it. It was a great game for him. On the flip side, he was just about as bad in the Giants game as he was good in the Saints game. He was 12/26 for 196 yards. Almost 100 of those yards (and both of his TDs) came on big plays to the Niners one true offensive stud, Vernon Davis. It wasn't like Smith made great plays there, he just gave his awesome TE a chance to make a play, and he did. Again, that's what a game manager is supposed to do. However, if you watched the Niners offense bog down late in the game and in OT, when Smith was called upon to deliver, you saw why he isn't the kind of guy that's going to deliver a Super Bowl. He couldn't complete simple 5 yard crossing patterns, let alone any kind of meaningful pass. That's not who he is. He has no gunslinger in him. It's tough to win a Super Bowl with a guy like that.

No one is saying elite QB play alone gets you a ring. What I'm saying is look at the past 10-15 Super Bowl winning QBs. You'll see a select few game managers (Dilfer, Brad Johnson) and a list mostly peppered with the likes of Brady, P. Manning, E. Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Favre, Warner, and Big Ben. Elite guys. It's the easiest way to win in today's pass first league.


Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:53 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
So, brandon Marshall to the Bears, reuniting with Jay Cutler. This finally gives the Bears a legit WR threat. If Marshall can keep his off-field life straight, then this could be a great signing for the Bears. now they need to go get Mario Williams. Williams and Peppers, with a healthy Forte and a deep threat in Marshall, make the Bears strong favorites to at least go far in the playoffs.

Now, does losing Marshall hurt Miami#s chances to land Peyton? Peyton wasn't exactly enamored with Marshall... is this a move to make Peyton more liable to take his talents to South Beach? Interesting development.


Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:44 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
MunichMan wrote:
So, brandon Marshall to the Bears, reuniting with Jay Cutler. This finally gives the Bears a legit WR threat. If Marshall can keep his off-field life straight, then this could be a great signing for the Bears. now they need to go get Mario Williams. Williams and Peppers, with a healthy Forte and a deep threat in Marshall, make the Bears strong favorites to at least go far in the playoffs.

Now, does losing Marshall hurt Miami#s chances to land Peyton? Peyton wasn't exactly enamored with Marshall... is this a move to make Peyton more liable to take his talents to South Beach? Interesting development.


As long as they have Jay 'I haven't proven anything' Cutler at QB, I'm holding off on suggesting anything resembling a Super Bowl run. I'm not sure what he specifics are for the trade, but in terms of a 'mega deal' as it's being reported as in certain places, I'm betting it has a negligible impact on the Bears' place in the NFC North as long as the Lions and Packers keep holding turf. I suppose it should make things a little more interesting, if anything. I'm honestly not too impressed or shocked either way.

PeachyPete wrote:
Evenflow8112 wrote:
So, the Niners land Moss.


It's one of the most unnecessary, needless signings I can remember. The last time we saw Moss he was fresh off of being cut by 3 teams in one season. He couldn't even find employment last year. I'm really supposed to believe that a 35 year old diva WR, who no one wanted last year, and everyone couldn't get rid of fast enough the year before, is going to "return to form"? It's a joke. He's done. The Niners are desperate for receivers, but man, there's a handful of free agents this year that would have made for a much better signing.


Lord I hate the way you quote.

On a more relevant note, I think it can be a big deal if Moss shows up. If he doesn't, no harm. We still have Josh Morgan returning, and I'm assuming he, like pretty much every other Niner who has decided to re-sign, will have a difficult time saying 'no' to a franchise in ascent. The Niners are probably also still pursuing receiving talent in the draft. The fact that Moss was not employed anywhere last year tells me only one thing - that he was retired. I'm not totally sold on Moss as a super-power, but I don't see the harm in trying it out. If the Niners improve at receiver and give Alex Smith more cushion, then it's an incredibly important deal since it bolsters a team that everyone agrees is in great form to contend, whereas with Brandon Marshall now the Bears get to decide if they want to share a Wild Card split with whoever also doesn't win the NFC North. I'm not even sure how that deal even made the front-page headlines at ESPN.com.


Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:04 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Evenflow8112 wrote:
As long as they have Jay 'I haven't proven anything' Cutler at QB, I'm holding off on suggesting anything resembling a Super Bowl run.


Umm... we realize that Culter is, oh, 10 times the QB Smith is, right? Yes, it's a very tough division, but Marshall has been great at times.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
not totally sold on Moss as a super-power, but I don't see the harm in trying it out.


Serious question: How about the fact that Smith is by all accounts (including your own a page or two back) one of the mentally weakest QBs we've ever seen? Couldn't it hurt if Moss expresses unhappiness with him publicly?

Evenflow8112 wrote:
I'm not even sure how that deal even made the front-page headlines at ESPN.com.


That's a Vexer-level of lunacy right there, holmes. ;)


Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:35 pm
Post Re: The Official NFL Thread
Evenflow8112 wrote:
MunichMan wrote:
So, brandon Marshall to the Bears, reuniting with Jay Cutler. This finally gives the Bears a legit WR threat. If Marshall can keep his off-field life straight, then this could be a great signing for the Bears. now they need to go get Mario Williams. Williams and Peppers, with a healthy Forte and a deep threat in Marshall, make the Bears strong favorites to at least go far in the playoffs.

Now, does losing Marshall hurt Miami#s chances to land Peyton? Peyton wasn't exactly enamored with Marshall... is this a move to make Peyton more liable to take his talents to South Beach? Interesting development.


As long as they have Jay 'I haven't proven anything' Cutler at QB, I'm holding off on suggesting anything resembling a Super Bowl run. I'm not sure what he specifics are for the trade, but in terms of a 'mega deal' as it's being reported as in certain places, I'm betting it has a negligible impact on the Bears' place in the NFC North as long as the Lions and Packers keep holding turf. I suppose it should make things a little more interesting, if anything. I'm honestly not too impressed or shocked either way.


Great move for the Bears. They only gave up two 3rd round picks to get him, he's had success with their QB, and he's proved to be a beast on he field as well. With burners like Hester and Knox, Marshall is the exact kind of big, possession WR they need to move the chains and catch passes in the red zone. He can go deep too and he's a willing blocker. He's a complete WR. Obviously the risk is the fact that Marshall is certifiably insane, but there's no question he's going to produce on the field.

Phil - Jay Cutler has played in 1 NFC Championship Game. The same number as Alex Smith. I have no idea why you'd claim the Niners can win a Super Bowl with Smith and then turn around and dismiss Cutler, a guy who's head and shoulders a better QB then Smith, as not having proven anything when their resumes, in terms of team success, are pretty similar. It's blind homerism, my friend.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
Lord I hate the way you quote.


It's an effort to be concise. That's something you might want to try once in a while. ;)

Evenflow8112 wrote:
On a more relevant note, I think it can be a big deal if Moss shows up. If he doesn't, no harm. We still have Josh Morgan returning, and I'm assuming he, like pretty much every other Niner who has decided to re-sign, will have a difficult time saying 'no' to a franchise in ascent. The Niners are probably also still pursuing receiving talent in the draft. The fact that Moss was not employed anywhere last year tells me only one thing - that he was retired. I'm not totally sold on Moss as a super-power, but I don't see the harm in trying it out. If the Niners improve at receiver and give Alex Smith more cushion, then it's an incredibly important deal since it bolsters a team that everyone agrees is in great form to contend, whereas with Brandon Marshall now the Bears get to decide if they want to share a Wild Card split with whoever also doesn't win the NFC North. I'm not even sure how that deal even made the front-page headlines at ESPN.com.


I'm not sure how closely you're following free agency, but Josh Morgan is now a Redskin. So, he's not coming back. So much for that "unable to say no to a franchise in ascent" logic.

Moss' retirement was a sham. Just do a little research outside of ESPN and you'll realize he "retired" because no team would give him the deal he wanted. That's because he's old and lost a step. He's no longer worth putting up with the headache that accompanies him. It's the same reason you don't see anyone clamoring to sign T.O. The Niners are grasping for WR help and trying to get it cheaply. More power to them if it works out, but it's not going to.

Shade wrote:
Evenflow8112 wrote:
I'm not even sure how that deal even made the front-page headlines at ESPN.com.


That's a Vexer-level of lunacy right there, holmes. ;)


It's pretty silly. Phil does like his hyperbole, though. Marshall is a top 15, maybe top 10, WR in the NFL. He's a true #1 that demands double teams and still can produce. There really aren't many guys like that in the league. I mean, just look the production the guy's had throughout his career.

The question here isn't whether the Bears got better. They did. A lot better. The question is can they keep him from being a crazy person.


Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:07 pm
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