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The sad story of Tayvon Martin 
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Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Ken wrote:
Ah, yes, but you're talking about caution in a conversation about cynicism. It is not cynical to avoid danger. Caution is situational. Cynicism is a worldview. I would imagine you'd have to be very weird to become cynical about stoves.

I would imagine that you'd have be deliberately dense to miss the allegorical connection I was drawing. No one said you couldn't be that "glass half full" kind of guy. Just recognize that "glass half empty" is as valid a view as your own.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:56 am
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
I don't mean to claim that it's invalid, but validity isn't really the issue. I think that self-defeating behavior is a long-running problem that, unfortunately, is probably easier to correct than we like to admit to ourselves. Insisting on viewing the universe predominantly based on its capacity for the negative is about is self-defeating as it gets.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:20 am
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
With regards to the hypothetical proposition that Anne Frank survived the Holocaust, I think she'd be both incensed and cynical.

I highly doubt she'd be silent about the following genocides, all post-Holocaust:

- Bangladesh (1971)

- East Timor (1975-1999)

- Cambodia (1975-1979)

- Guatemala, 1981-1983

- Bosnia, 1992-1995

- Rwanda, 1994

- Darfur, Sudan, 2004 - ????

I've probably even missed a couple.

A common attitude seems to be that people have come a long way. I contend that the more things have changed, the more they've stayed the same.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:41 am
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Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
This is a perfect and sad but true highlight of how things are at this point. I don't agree with people like Sharpton who say that virtually nothing has changed since 1963. However I also can't get on board with people like Larry Elder who argue that race is almost a non-issue at this point.

I'm reminded of a line from Frank Zappa's Watts Riots song "Trouble Every Day". "You know something people. I'm not black but there's a whole lotta times I wish I could say I'm not white".

I don't think racism will ever be totally eradicated. You're always going to have some numbskulls who's mind will never change same as there will always be shitheads who'll insist in the face of overwhelming evidnece that there was no Holocaust. Sad but true. If we're lucky, we might be able to minimize it as much as possible to where even if it's not a total non-issue, it'll be at the bottom of the pile of issues.

I don't know all the details about what exactly happened based on the article. But I'd wager that the shooter is one guy who suspects that every non-white is a potential robber. Much like the Diallo shooting.

Someone like myself who grew up with black friends and is currently very much in love with a black woman is different than someone who grew up when it was still considered ok to treat black as second class citizens, back when idiots like George Wallace and Lester Madox were in charge. Someone who grew up in that time once admitted to me that he had a little of what he called the "closet bigot" in him. Sort of like Danny Aiello in Do The Right Thing.

In some ways, we all have our prejudices. It's how we go about handling them that determines hoe we get along.

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Cinema is a matter of what's in the frame and what's out-Martin Scorsese.

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Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:14 am
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Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Timmy Shoes wrote:
With regards to the hypothetical proposition that Anne Frank survived the Holocaust, I think she'd be both incensed and cynical.

I highly doubt she'd be silent about the following genocides, all post-Holocaust:

- Bangladesh (1971)

- East Timor (1975-1999)

- Cambodia (1975-1979)

- Guatemala, 1981-1983

- Bosnia, 1992-1995

- Rwanda, 1994

- Darfur, Sudan, 2004 - ????

I've probably even missed a couple.

A common attitude seems to be that people have come a long way. I contend that the more things have changed, the more they've stayed the same.



Dear God dude, you're being obnoxious. I know certain people have points when they point out the gray areas of the emotional and moral world, but you've just nose-dived credibility with your ridiculous, wallowing statements over the last two pages. I've written some depressing shit here and elsewhere, but I'm afraid you're just off-base and starting to sound like a broken record of gloom and doom. Life is life. It's nor perfect, it's not always perfectly rewarding, but life is life. If you have it, it's valuable and it's necessary to look past the imperfections of the world and enjoy it while you can. We all learn we can't control everything in the world. We learn that change is not just up to one person, that people cna be fickle, cruel, silly (like you're being) and inhuman towards others. But you live life like you ride it. If you want to look in the rear-view mirror and lament and regret, you are perfectly allowed to, but when you're on your death-bed and all you could see was the past, what will you see as your life? One long glance of wasted roads, opportunities and lives you denied yourself. Lives that were available to you, if it wasn't for you. Hopefully you don't live like you write, the sad sulky fellow you portray yourself as on this thread, but if you really do, then I honestly pity you. You're denying yourself a lot of life in the place of genocide stats and discouraging quotes.

As for race, just do what you do. I'm 100% not racist, and I expect the people I know and meet to keep that attitude. If they don't, I don't talk to them. Period. It's been long enough and we all know enough now to have the responsibility to know and make a difference. I think people should be free and loose with how they deal with racial relations. Keep a light attitude and a graceful touch. I think it's important to see people as essentially funny, no matter how sad some of the things they do become, and that our differences are not taboo, but simply details of life from different perspectives. I might not agree with racism, yet I'll always commend someone for an edgy joke that tests the lines and wakes us up to our hidden tensions (and of course they're still there, in some way or some form). As a citizen of the U.S. I just feel that, hey, we're here, we've come form East and West and North and South -why not have some fun with it? Our differences aren't sacred, but that's not a reason to lament. It's only when we close ourselves off to what makes us happy and free that we can start lamenting, because then we will truly know the meaning of sorrow.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:26 am
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Ragnarok73 wrote:
Ken wrote:
There are much better ways to go about dealing with racism than to hate the racist. It is self-defeating and ultimately cowardly to hide behind cynicism.

"Idealism is what precedes experience. Cynicism is what follows." - David T. Wolf


Dear God, does anyone get laid on this forum?


Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:32 am
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Evenflow8112 wrote:
Dear God dude, you're being obnoxious. I know certain people have points when they point out the gray areas of the emotional and moral world, but you've just nose-dived credibility with your ridiculous, wallowing statements over the last two pages. I've written some depressing shit here and elsewhere, but I'm afraid you're just off-base and starting to sound like a broken record of gloom and doom. Life is life. It's nor perfect, it's not always perfectly rewarding, but life is life. If you have it, it's valuable and it's necessary to look past the imperfections of the world and enjoy it while you can. We all learn we can't control everything in the world. We learn that change is not just up to one person, that people cna be fickle, cruel, silly (like you're being) and inhuman towards others. But you live life like you ride it. If you want to look in the rear-view mirror and lament and regret, you are perfectly allowed to, but when you're on your death-bed and all you could see was the past, what will you see as your life? One long glance of wasted roads, opportunities and lives you denied yourself. Lives that were available to you, if it wasn't for you. Hopefully you don't live like you write, the sad sulky fellow you portray yourself as on this thread, but if you really do, then I honestly pity you. You're denying yourself a lot of life in the place of genocide stats and discouraging quotes.


0_o

Mayhaps you should read all the posts I've made in this thread? Ken already did what you're trying to do with this paragraph. I already admitted to pseudo-trolling, and it seems I've succeeded in at least annoying you. Yes, some of what I say is inflammatory hyperbole, but there's more to it than me throwing poop.

I also don't see how that last specific post I made was obnoxious; genocide continues in the world today, and that is an unarguable fact.

It's also pretty incredible how people think they can discern so much about a person from a static page of a few of their words on a message board on the internet. For example,

Evenflow8112 wrote:
Dear God, does anyone get laid on this forum?


This proves, without a doubt, that you are a virgin. :P

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Before anyone gets all bitchy, that was a joke.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:10 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Timmy Shoes wrote:

This proves, without a doubt, that you are a virgin. :P

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Before anyone gets all bitchy, that was a joke.



Thanks for rubbing it in, Faux-Neitzche. If only I stopped posting here, maybe the Valley of Gina would open up for me. But alas, it's basketball season, so that means it's forum time.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:19 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Timmy Shoes wrote:
0_o

Mayhaps you should read all the posts I've made in this thread? Ken already did what you're trying to do with this paragraph. I already admitted to pseudo-trolling, and it seems I've succeeded in at least annoying you. Yes, some of what I say is inflammatory hyperbole, but there's more to it than me throwing poop.



On a serious note, I never read anything that Ken writes. His knowledgeable ways are a real boner-kill for me. It's my little way of staying blissfully cool and ignorant.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:23 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Ken wrote:
I don't mean to claim that it's invalid, but validity isn't really the issue. I think that self-defeating behavior is a long-running problem that, unfortunately, is probably easier to correct than we like to admit to ourselves. Insisting on viewing the universe predominantly based on its capacity for the negative is about is self-defeating as it gets.

Not wanting to put one's hand on a hot stove after being burned is "self-defeating"? Having a little mistrust based on the knowledge of humanity's capacity for immorality is a great thing for self-preservation in actuality.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:27 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Evenflow8112 wrote:
Thanks for rubbing it in, Faux-Neitzche. If only I stopped posting here, maybe the Valley of Gina would open up for me. But alas, it's basketball season, so that means it's forum time.


If it makes you feel any better, I'm not too proud to admit I haven't gotten any since me and my ex broke up back in late December. Not sure why I felt inclined to share this, perhaps it was because I was tickled at the Faux-Neitzche bit. Oh well, at least baseball is starting soon (to each his own. You take solace in your basketball, I have to wait until next month.)

Evenflow8112 wrote:
On a serious note, I never read anything that Ken writes. His knowledgeable ways are a real boner-kill for me. It's my little way of staying blissfully cool and ignorant.


They say ignorance is bliss.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:29 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Evenflow8112 wrote:
If only I stopped posting here, maybe the Valley of Gina would open up for me.

You obviously didn't pay her enough.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:30 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Timmy Shoes wrote:
Evenflow8112 wrote:
Thanks for rubbing it in, Faux-Neitzche. If only I stopped posting here, maybe the Valley of Gina would open up for me. But alas, it's basketball season, so that means it's forum time.


If it makes you feel any better, I'm not too proud to admit I haven't gotten any since me and my ex broke up back in late December. Not sure why I felt inclined to share this, perhaps it was because I was tickled at the Faux-Neitzche bit. Oh well, at least baseball is starting soon (to each his own. You take solace in your basketball, I have to wait until next month.)


Yeah, I hate baseball. It's the unfortunate thing that happens between the NHL, NBA seasons ending and the NFL season starting. The entire NFL off-season commands more attention from me than the MLB does, usually (actually, right now it's riveting in its own right).


Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:31 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Ragnarok73 wrote:
Evenflow8112 wrote:
If only I stopped posting here, maybe the Valley of Gina would open up for me.

You obviously didn't pay her enough.


Don't you dare call me cheap! My girlfriend's just gotten too expensive for me, and now she's starting to overrate her talents. I didn't know I was dating Carmelo Anthony.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:34 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Evenflow8112 wrote:
Ragnarok73 wrote:
Evenflow8112 wrote:
If only I stopped posting here, maybe the Valley of Gina would open up for me.

You obviously didn't pay her enough.


Don't you dare call me cheap! My girlfriend's just gotten too expensive for me, and now she's starting to overrate her talents. I didn't know I was dating Carmelo Anthony.

There's always the rape option, my friend.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:36 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
It seems the perception is that if someone is "cynical" that they are a do-nothing who just sits on their asses and complains, using their viewpoint as justification for never doing anything. While there are plenty of people like that, to be sure, I don't think that includes all people who have had the "cynical" label thrown at them.

While I don't think things will ever get any better, I don't see that as an excuse to not live my life and try to be the most complete, well-rounded individual I can. Like I said before, I can't fix or control the world, but I can make it a better place by trying to be a better person.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:38 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Ragnarok73 wrote:
Evenflow8112 wrote:
Don't you dare call me cheap! My girlfriend's just gotten too expensive for me, and now she's starting to overrate her talents. I didn't know I was dating Carmelo Anthony.

There's always the rape option, my friend.


My 'man' has already gotten me arrested, beaten at an L.A. strip club (by the strippers, after they converged on me), killed three people while I was blacked out, and apparently swung the last election by charading as John McCain during random public appearances (hey, I didn't know you liked the strip clubs in NY, senator!). It would just be another in a long line of things to put on my rap(e) sheet.

Which is all good: the way I see it, if you don't have a love-hate relationship with your penis, then you don't have one.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:41 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Ragnarok73 wrote:
There's always the rape option, my friend.



YOU CAN'T JOKE ABOUT RAPE, RAPE'S NOT FUNNY!!

Quote:
Fuck you, I think it's hilarious. How do you like that? I can prove to you that rape is funny. Picture Porky Pig raping Elmer Fudd. See, hey why do you think they call him "Porky," eh? I know what you're going to say. "Elmer was asking for it. Elmer was coming on to Porky.
Porky couldn't help himself, he got a hard- on, he got horney, he lost control, he went out of his mind."


Evenflow8112 wrote:
Which is all good: the way I see it, if you don't have a love-hate relationship with your penis, then you don't have one.


This made me lol (for reals, not just the usual "I'm gonna type lol just because"). 'Tis quite true.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:45 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Timmy Shoes wrote:
Like I said before, I can't fix or control the world, but I can make it a better place by trying to be a better person.



Absolutely. Unless, of course, you were a poor Ethiopian child who could have been a great, vital man who could have invigorated your country and the world proper - but instead died just three days after being born, thrown into a gray, dusty dumpster, and ending up as a Harry Chapin lyric.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:46 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Evenflow8112 wrote:
Absolutely. Unless, of course, you were a poor Ethiopian child who could have been a great, vital man who could have invigorated your country and the world proper - but instead died just three days after being born, thrown into a gray, dusty dumpster, and ending up as a Harry Chapin lyric.


Quote:
Well, you can stake that claim --
Good work is the key to good fortune
Winners take that praise
Losers seldom take that blame
If they don't take that game
And sometimes the winner takes nothing
We draw our own designs
But fortune has to make that frame

We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That's the way that lady luck dances
Roll the bones

Why are we here?
Because we're here
Roll the bones
Why does it happen?
Because it happens
Roll the bones

Faith as cold as ice --
Why are little ones born only to suffer
For the want of immunity
Or a bowl of rice?
Well, who would hold a price
On the heads of the innocent children
If there's some immortal power
To control the dice?

We come in to the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That's the way that lady luck dances
Roll the bones


Man, I'm quote happy right now.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:50 pm
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