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The sad story of Tayvon Martin 
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Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Ken wrote:
Timmy Shoes wrote:
I do indeed have endeavors I'd like to see come to fruition. I don't conduct my life based around the fact that we're essentially fucked

...

I personally believe the best way for me to combat against the plagues of this world is to try to be as decent a person as I can. Lead by example, if you will. You know how I combat racism? By judging people for who they are. I can't change the world, but I can control how I live out my life and how I choose to express myself.

Jesus H. Christ, I didn't expect you to change overnight, but I really didn't expect you to change between posts.

I have to find a good use for my surprisingly potent powers of persuasion.


I'm glad you're so well versed on the kind of person I am in actuality. Considering we've never met I find this extremely impressive. Perhaps you should take your high-powered skills of observationally judging a person based on a few raw ideas they posted on the internet and put it towards something more useful, like clubbing baby seals.

Just because I have sympathetic contempt towards my species doesn't mean I act on my ill will towards them. If I did that, I'd probably wind up becoming the next Hitler (but I wouldn't discriminate! Why stop at Jews? Kill em all!)

Pseudo-trolling aside, I don't walk around with a sign that reads "The End is Nigh," nor do I go out of my way to tell people why I think they suck. I acknowledge the fact that everyone sucks, including myself. If a person is either naive enough to (just for examples sake) hate someone based on the color of their skin or was raised in an environment that promoted that type of thinking, I don't go into a tirade about the folly of mankind's ill will towards each other. I simply smirk and think to myself, and perhaps later if a good enough idea is born, it blossoms into some sort of artistic endeavor.

I actually am a really nice person in real life. I'm not arrogant enough to think that my point of view is definitive, so I don't see the need to force my ideas or be a dick to people. You seem to think that I'm some 2-dimensional caricature who's entire lifestyle is based around a choice few of my personal beliefs.

Tell me, what do you think would be more successful in creating a better world:

1. You create a universal panel of "intellectuals" and "scholars" and "spiritual leaders" to try and work towards some real progress for the World's enormously complicated problems, ORRRRR....

2. Instead of letting the air swell up above our necks, we focus on becoming a better person in our own personal lives, striving to become a more well rounded individual.

What's better, an abattoir full of retarded children clacking at each other, or people focusing instead on becoming a more wholesome, genuine person?


Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:36 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
I judged you based precisely on what you've said. Now that you've said some contradictory things, I'm revising my opinion.

You're not a cynic. You may think you are, and might wish you are, but you don't walk the walk. You barely even talk the talk. In your previous posts, you came across as a giant crabby baby, and once I got on your case, you backed off on it quickly and allowed the adult to poke his head back out.

This is good. This is to be encouraged. The world needs more adults who can, without self-consciousness, admit that they are adults, with a rational interest (let's all admit it now) in making the world a better place by virtue of their own actions. It might not be trendy, particularly in light of our mass media narrative construct which dictates that we should accept an overrepresentation of negativity in the world and therefore become more negative as a result. But that's what makes it all the more important.


Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:53 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Ken wrote:
I judged you based precisely on what you've said. Now that you've said some contradictory things, I'm revising my opinion.

You're not a cynic. You may think you are, and might wish you are, but you don't walk the walk. You barely even talk the talk. In your previous posts, you came across as a giant crabby baby, and once I got on your case, you backed off on it quickly and allowed the adult to poke his head back out.

This is good. This is to be encouraged. The world needs more adults who can, without self-consciousness, admit that they are adults, with a rational interest (let's all admit it now) in making the world a better place by virtue of their own actions. It might not be trendy, particularly in light of our mass media narrative construct which dictates that we should accept an overrepresentation of negativity in the world and therefore become more negative as a result. But that's what makes it all the more important.


My hyperbole shouldn't be taken all that seriously. I can say some fairly crass things that belittle my intelligence and make me some a whole lot more blustery than I am. Flawed as I am, it's as much about pissing people off/coaxing a reaction as it is about anything else. One of those weird outsider/observationalist things, I guess. However, I don't think I contradicted myself and I still think people suck and that our collective suckiness will eventually lead to our downfall. I just don't live my life based on that notion...if I did, I really would be a jackoff crabby baby.

Edit: I happen to wholeheartedly agree with your comment on the mass media narrative.


Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:08 am
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Well, on a long-term scale, everything will die by entropy anyway... so the cynics will be validated, once our atoms are all scattered too widely throughout the cosmos for it to matter. On the human scale, though, I think we've weathered quite a bit of shit and come out better for it. The human species is both too tenacious and too interesting to sell short.


Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:15 am
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Timmy, this is a message board. You admittedly tried to come across a certain way, then scoffed when Ken called you on it. We all know this is a forum wherein one can attempt to come across in a way that isn't genuine, can attempt sarcasm or irony, etc etc. Some can succeed at this. Either way, though, we all acknowledge this but can only conversate based on the persona presented. You've essentially acknowledged that you're trolling in parts, for which I honestly appreciate the honesty, but you know, you're trolling.

Ken wrote:
he world needs more adults who can, without self-consciousness, admit that they are adults, with a rational interest (let's all admit it now) in making the world a better place by virtue of their own actions


I believe that everyone has a rational and natural interest in bettering the world for their own benefit, but I don't believe anyone has a natural inclination to serve others and better them. I think the battle of existence is pushing down the desire to preserve self above all.


Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:47 am
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
corpen11 wrote:
Read the story. A sad story of how we are NOT living in a Post-racial America.
http://allpowertothepositive.blogspot.com/2012/03/justice-for-tayvon-martin-unarmed-black.html

It's hard to find many knowledgeable people who think that the U.S. doesn't have a long way to go.


Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:36 am
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Ken wrote:
There are much better ways to go about dealing with racism than to hate the racist. It is self-defeating and ultimately cowardly to hide behind cynicism.

"Idealism is what precedes experience. Cynicism is what follows." - David T. Wolf


Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:48 am
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Ragnarok73 wrote:
"Idealism is what precedes experience. Cynicism is what follows." - David T. Wolf

Tell that to Thomas Paine, Jonas Salk, and Neil Armstrong.


Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:56 am
Director

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:28 pm
Posts: 1482
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
As a young Black male living in America, I need to respond to these messages. I know I have to think about what could happen to me when I walk in the streets; I could be shot, attacked, brutally attacked by the police because certain people have negative and hatful thoughts of people like me. Any day, my life could be flipped upside down by the way society has structured itself aainst people like me. I hate that I have to be aware that some people may hand me thins in life because they think I'm a charity case and others will hate me because of the color of my skin.

With that said, to simply ignore what's wrong with society or be cynical about society won't do a damn thing. It's wrong, immoral and harmful to future generations of people like me because the bias and unfairness of society will harm them also; we can do something about this by calling out what's wrong with society and letting good-natured people be apart of that process. This is not me bein Gee-Whiz to the world, but to look the other way when we obviously know what is cruel, evil and inhumane is immoral. Time will go by and we, as people, must stand up and make sure the we can speak for those can not. Tayvon Martin is another example of a victim to this cruel society. It's time we stand up for him others like Tayvon.


Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:39 pm
Profile YIM
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Ken wrote:
Ragnarok73 wrote:
"Idealism is what precedes experience. Cynicism is what follows." - David T. Wolf

Tell that to Thomas Paine, Jonas Salk, and Neil Armstrong.

I'd rather tell it to the following people instead:

Ruben Carter
Rosa Parks
Malcolm X
Simon Wiesenthal
Muhammed Ali
Bruce Lee
James Chaney
Andrew Goodman
Michael Schwerner
Thomas Jefferson
Nelson Mandela
Anne Frank
Haing S. Ngor
Wang Yue


Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:50 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
corpen11 wrote:
With that said, to simply ignore what's wrong with society or be cynical about society won't do a damn thing.

Ok, I think it's time for a little lesson on the word "cynicism", because some people here, like you and Ken, seem to have a distorted interpretation. Ken calls cynicism "cowardly", while you treat it as some sort of active method of dealing with things. Cynicism in its modern usage means having little or no faith in humanity's good side. This doesn't mean that one who is cynical automatically thinks that humanity should be made extinct, though there are some, like Timmy, who express such extremely misanthropic views. Most people who are cynical, like me, are simply skeptical, meaning that we are not naive enough to take every word or action at face value.

To call a person "cowardly" for being cynical is like calling a person who doesn't want to put his hand on a hot stove after being burned by it "cowardly". That's why I posted the David Wolf quote for you, Ken- cynicism is generally a direct result of experience. All of those people I listed have reason to doubt the positive side in humanity due to suffering injustices up to and including being murdered.


Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:05 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Several of those people, just thinking of elements of their lives off the top of my head, were/are not particularly cynical.


Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:10 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
In fact, weren't the last words in Anne Frank's diary, which she wrote while she listened to the Gestapo breaking into the house to come get her, an affirmation of the goodness of humanity?


Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:17 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Ken wrote:
Several of those people, just thinking of elements of their lives off the top of my head, were/are not particularly cynical.

Yeah, the ones on that list who were murdered didn't get the chance to become cynical after their experience with injustice for obvious reasons.


Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:03 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Ken wrote:
In fact, weren't the last words in Anne Frank's diary, which she wrote while she listened to the Gestapo breaking into the house to come get her, an affirmation of the goodness of humanity?

I guess you could call that the idealism that preceded the experience. I highly doubt that Anne was really thinking about the "goodness of humanity" while she was dying of typhus at Bergen-Belsen.


Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:08 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
I'm not going to second-guess Anne Frank, but go for it.


Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:06 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Ken wrote:
I'm not going to second-guess Anne Frank, but go for it.

Because people's views of things never change after experience, right? :roll:

I think I'll just treat Ms. Frank as a normal human being. Most normal human beings tend to develop negative views after watching their friends and family being murdered, not to mention while they themselves are being subjected to the same not-so-nice treatment. I think that I'd also develop a somewhat unhappy view of things if I were being starved or worked to death by a genocidal regime. Call me crazy if you'd like.


Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:08 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Yes. Bad things happen in the world. Sometimes, very bad things. It is not cynical to realize that fact and lament when life is being a bitch.

I'm certain Anne Frank didn't enjoy dying of typhus, and I'm certain that she had no great love for her tormentors. This does not change the fact that it takes a big, big pair to write

Quote:
In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart.


after you've been trapped in a tiny hovel for two years by a genocidal regime.

I'll ask this: after all she went through, and after all the struggle to maintain her sense of perspective, how do you think she'd react if she looked at an online community and found that people were reading a news story about one murder and proclaiming the ultimate validity of cynicism? Would she agree? Or would she line everyone up for a pride-obliterating bitchslap?


Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:32 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Ken wrote:
Yes. Bad things happen in the world. Sometimes, very bad things. It is not cynical to realize that fact and lament when life is being a bitch.

I'm certain Anne Frank didn't enjoy dying of typhus, and I'm certain that she had no great love for her tormentors. This does not change the fact that it takes a big, big pair to write

Quote:
In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart.


after you've been trapped in a tiny hovel for two years by a genocidal regime.

Keep in mind that Anne wrote that before she was shipped to a concentration camp to die. It's one thing to hear about atrocities- it's another thing entirely to actually experience them. I'm not dumping on Ms.Frank or elevating her to the level of sainthood. She was an ordinary girl who had the great misfortune to live in a time when people like her were being systematically persecuted and murdered just because of which ethnic group she was born to.

Ken wrote:
I'll ask this: after all she went through, and after all the struggle to maintain her sense of perspective, how do you think she'd react if she looked at an online community and found that people were reading a news story about one murder and proclaiming the ultimate validity of cynicism? Would she agree? Or would she line everyone up for a pride-obliterating bitchslap?

That's a good question. You should be asking that instead of dumping on someone who chooses to take a dim view of humanity after having experienced the dark side. Also ask yourself this: if you burn your hand on a hot stove, don't you think a certain amount of caution is warranted? If Anne survived the Holocaust, I don't think that she'd be as idealistic about the goodness of humanity. She'd probably be...wait for it...a bit more CYNICAL, and why not? If I could, I'd impart a good healthy dose of that in children, so that they're not as willing to get into that van with the nice-seeming stranger who ends being a murderous pedophile. Trusting no one is stupid, but trusting everyone is even more stupid.


Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:11 pm
Post Re: The sad story of Tayvon Martin
Ah, yes, but you're talking about caution in a conversation about cynicism. It is not cynical to avoid danger. Caution is situational. Cynicism is a worldview. I would imagine you'd have to be very weird to become cynical about stoves.


Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:14 pm
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