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THE ARTIST 
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Post THE ARTIST
Click here for the review of The Artist

SPOILERS must be tagged with the "SPOILER" tag!


Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:38 pm
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Post Re: THE ARTIST
Looking forward to seeing this. I have not seen many black & white and/or silent films, and not too many older films at all. I am very interested in film history, but never have the time to make a significant effort to view many titles. In a film class back in high school, I saw Battleship Potemkin and Citizen Kane. More recently, I saw City of Lights based off of JB's recommendation.

I respect all three of the films, but definitely enjoyed City of Lights on another level for reasons that are obvious for anyone who has seen the film. For this reason, I expect to enjoy The Artist as well, and I'm glad films are being made that honor film history.


Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:00 pm
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Gaffer

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Post Re: THE ARTIST
I just got back from seeing this. I am not sure how much I liked it. I know that sounds stupid, but that is the case for me.
While I watched the film - I have only seen 2 silent films all of the way through - I felt a bit detached from the film. I had the feeling that I was watching another movie whose characters were watching a silent era film. (I apologize if that sounds stupid)
Also I learned that they don't show dialog for every utterance. As a matter of fact I would say only about 1/3 of the scenes have dialog. Of course the music fills in most of the scenes, but during parts of the movie the music seemed kind of trite and wrong for the scene. (that may have been by design, I don't know) The rest you are supposed to figure out.
I am torn. The experience of watching the movie (and I am Mr Artsy Fartsy when it comes to movies) left me cold. Some of the movie just seemed hokey and there was a fair bit of mugging onscreen. (again I know that this was the intention) but it doesn't necessarily make for a compelling experience. This is supposed to be a movie, not a documentary about the silent film era. At times I felt like I was watching this in a classroom and the teacher ordered us to pay attention. It is a bit eerie when the entire theater is completely silent for about 2 hours (there was little reaction from myself and my fellow theater goers).
On the other hand the movie as a whole is moving in a way that I cannot describe. It is funny that I was not surprised to find out that the director and its two main stars were foreign. When I found that out after I got home it fit the experience sort of.
But I know there is no one I know who I could recommend this movie to which is a shame.
I may have to see it again to decide how much I really liked it.


Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:43 pm
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Post Re: THE ARTIST
sjankis630 wrote:
I may have to see it again to decide how much I really liked it.


A better approach might be to see about one or two dozen silent films, then re-watch THE ARTIST. The more familiar you are with the silent era, the more you'll realize what an accomplishment this is.


Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:29 am
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Post Re: THE ARTIST
I didn't much like it either. The whole time, I wished the people would just talk.

The most creative parts were (1) the ending and
[Reveal] Spoiler:
(2) the two dream sequences.


I wasn't that involved in the story. I think I would have been if I could have heard what the actors were saying. I give it ** out of ****.

I realize this makes me look un-artsy to say, but whatever. I am confident in my artsiness.


Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:58 pm
Post Re: THE ARTIST
Quote:
I realize this makes me look un-artsy to say, but whatever. I am confident in my artsiness.


No, it doesn't. It's an honest, highly intelligent opinion. I have seen about 30 silent films from many different parts of the world. Some were pretty tiresome, but all were superior to Artist.


Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:57 pm
Director

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:44 pm
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Post Re: THE ARTIST
Guess I'm not the only one who thought use of this score was sorta lame:

Quote:
EXCLUSIVE: Kim Novak has gone public, with a press release and a trade ad, to express her ire over The Artist‘s use of Bernard Hermann’s music from Vertigo as backdrop for the silent film. I just spoke with Novak’s longtime manager Sue Cameron, and she told me that the actress is an Oscar voter. When she popped in a screener of the film to figure out her ballot, she recognized the music immediately and didn’t feel flattered that a signature song from one of her best known films got an encore.

“She was sitting in her living room, she put the DVD in, and then went into an absolute state of shock and devastation,” Cameron said. “When you sit in a theater and familiar music comes on that engenders ready made emotion from a past film, and they use that music to evoke those same emotions, it’s quite hurtful. We know that they had the legal right to use the music, but it’s the music that was the backdrop for classic scenes, like Kim and Jimmy Stewart kissing by the tree, driving along the coast in the car. She is very, very upset.”

This Oscar season has so far been tame in terms of bad-mouthing, and I don’t think I’ve heard a complaint quite like this one before. How many will recognize music from a film released in 1958? Cameron said Novak felt strongly enough to pay for the full page trade ad, which isn’t cheap. One looming question is whether Novak has jeopardized her status as a voter, and violated the rules by publicly maligning a movie that is a frontrunner for Best Picture. I will provide updates as I get some clarity, and reaction from The Weinstein Company, which released The Artist. Here is Novak’s reaction, in her own words:

Los Angeles: “I want to report a rape,” said Kim Novak, the legendary star of “Vertigo,” “Picnic,” and many other revered classics. “My body of work has been violated by ‘The Artist.’ This film took the Love Theme music from “Vertigo” and used the emotions it engenders as its own. Alfred Hitchcock and Jimmy Stewart can’t speak for themselves, but I can. It was our work that unconsciously or consciously evoked the memories and feelings to the audience that were used for the climax of ‘The Artist.’”

Novak went on to say that “The Artist” could and should have been able to stand on its own. “There was no reason for them to depend on Bernard Herrmann’s score from ‘Vertigo’ to provide more drama. ‘Vertigo’s’ music was written during the filming. Hitchcock wanted the theme woven musically in the puzzle pieces of the storyline. Even though they did given Bernard Herrmann a small credit at the end, I believe this kind of filmmaking trick to be cheating. Shame on them!”

This kind of “borrowing” could portend a dangerous future for all artists in film. “It is morally wrong of people in our industry to use and abuse famous pieces of work to gain attention and applause for other than what the original work was intended. It is essential that all artists safeguard our special bodies of work for posterity, with their individual identities intact and protected.


http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/not-eve ... ore-211874


Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:25 pm
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Post Re: THE ARTIST
Quote:
Los Angeles: “I want to report a rape,” said Kim Novak, the legendary star of “Vertigo,” “Picnic,” and many other revered classics. “My body of work has been violated by ‘The Artist.’”


What a ridiculous overreaction.


Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:49 pm
Post Re: THE ARTIST
Blonde Almond wrote:
Quote:
Los Angeles: “I want to report a rape,” said Kim Novak, the legendary star of “Vertigo,” “Picnic,” and many other revered classics. “My body of work has been violated by ‘The Artist.’”


What a ridiculous overreaction.


This was my reaction as well. I can't really comment on this specific example, having not seen the film, but I would suggest Ms. Novak pick up a dictionary and look up the term "homage". Maybe the use of this particular musical theme is, as calvero said, sort of lame, but that's no reason to launch a ridiculously over-the-top tirade like this. Especially so considering how referential film as a medium has become. If they had used the score and not credited Hermann, that's something to get angry over. This is the smallest of small potatoes.


Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:49 pm
Director

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:44 pm
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Post Re: THE ARTIST
The use of the score took me out of the film. They didn't just use bits & pieces from Vertigo (like Tarantino sometimes does with Morricone in his films), but for like 2 straight minutes of screentime in The Artist they used the Vertigo score.
In a silent movie, that use of that music becomes even more jarring. Seemed sort of lazy to me, recycling one of the most famous scores of all time to use in a crucial scene in your movie(while no other uses of previous scores was used at any other point in the movie, at least that I can recall)

Of course, its an overreaction by Novak(who was diagnosed with breast cancer last year btw, maybe she's a bit overly sensitive to her 'legacy' right now), but its nice that someone at least stood up for Vertigo(esp since Hitch & Herrmann can't)

this is how it was credited in the film(notice the word 'Vertigo' isn't used, which makes me wonder why. A number of posters on imdb recognized the music, but couldn't place it. If they stuck around for credits they still wouldn't find out where it came from)

Quote:
« LOVE SCENE »
(Bernard Herrmann)
Conducted by Elmer Bernstein, Performed by The Royal Philarmonic Orchestra
© Sony/ATV Harmony (cat. Famous)
(p) & (c) 1992 MILAN Entertainment, Inc
Courtesy of Sony/ATV Music Publishing France & Milan Entertainment, Inc.


if it was a homage, its a pretty strange one. Why not use some music from Sunrise or The Crowd? what does Vertigo have to do with silent movies?


Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:20 pm
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Post Re: THE ARTIST
calvero wrote:
The use of the score took me out of the film. They didn't just use bits & pieces from Vertigo (like Tarantino sometimes does with Morricone in his films), but for like 2 straight minutes of screentime in The Artist they used the Vertigo score.
In a silent movie, that use of that music becomes even more jarring. Seemed sort of lazy to me, recycling one of the most famous scores of all time to use in a crucial scene in your movie(while no other uses of previous scores was used at any other point in the movie, at least that I can recall)

Of course, its an overreaction by Novak(who was diagnosed with breast cancer last year btw, maybe she's a bit overly sensitive to her 'legacy' right now), but its nice that someone at least stood up for Vertigo(esp since Hitch & Herrmann can't)

this is how it was credited in the film(notice the word 'Vertigo' isn't used, which makes me wonder why. A number of posters on imdb recognized the music, but couldn't place it. If they stuck around for credits they still wouldn't find out where it came from)

Quote:
« LOVE SCENE »
(Bernard Herrmann)
Conducted by Elmer Bernstein, Performed by The Royal Philarmonic Orchestra
© Sony/ATV Harmony (cat. Famous)
(p) & (c) 1992 MILAN Entertainment, Inc
Courtesy of Sony/ATV Music Publishing France & Milan Entertainment, Inc.


if it was a homage, its a pretty strange one. Why not use some music from Sunrise or The Crowd? what does Vertigo have to do with silent movies?

Novak's response is pretty awesome, and very much warranted. What the filmmakers did by incorporating that theme reminds me of some half-baked highschool project I might have presented a while back. It's more amateurish than many student projects, as it seems like the director grabbed hold of the first piece of music he could reach. It's also a strange and jarring moment that takes you out of already dreadful film.


Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:38 pm
Director

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:44 pm
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Post Re: THE ARTIST
I guess this will be the only Oscar 'controversy' this year.

Quote:
The Artist director Michel Hazanavicius has released a statement responding to actress Kim Novak, who on Monday compared the use of some music from Vertigo in the Oscar contender to "rape."

Here's the statement:

The Artist was made as a love letter to cinema, and grew out of my (and all of my cast and crew’s) admiration and respect for movies throughout history. It was inspired by the work of Hitchcock, Lang, Ford, Lubitsch, Murnau and Wilder. I love Bernard Herrmann and his music has been used in many different films and I’m very pleased to have it in mine. I respect Kim Novak greatly and I’m sorry to hear she disagrees.

As The Hollywood Reporter reported earlier Monday, Novak, who starred in Alfred Hitchcock's Vertigo along with Jimmy Stewart, bought a full-page trade ad announcing, "I want to report a rape. I feel as if my body -- or, at least my body of work -- has been violated by the movie, The Artist."

She went on to say, "This film could and should have been able to stand on its own without depending upon Bernard Herrmann's score from Alfred Hitchcock's Vertigo to provide it more drama."

Novak called the creative decision "cheating," adding, "Shame on them!"

Reviewing the film when it debuted at the Cannes Film Festival in May, THR critic Todd McCarthy wrote, "Hazanavicius and Bource daringly choose to explicitly employ Bernard Herrmann’s love theme from Vertigo, which is dramatically effective in its own right but is so well known that it yanks you out of one film and places you in the mind-set of another. Surely some sort of reworked equivalent would have been a better idea."


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/a ... ius-279757


Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:29 pm
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Post Re: THE ARTIST
Quote:
The Artist was made as a love letter to cinema, and grew out of my (and all of my cast and crew’s) admiration and respect for movies throughout history. It was inspired by the work of Hitchcock, Lang, Ford, Lubitsch, Murnau and Wilder. I love Bernard Herrmann and his music has been used in many different films and I’m very pleased to have it in mine. I respect Kim Novak greatly and I’m sorry to hear she disagrees.


My hope is that it garners enough of a controvery to shoot down any Oscar contention, not that it really had any in the first place. If I ever meet The Artist's director, I'll give him a piece of my mind too. He might as well have said, my art is inspired by Mozart, Picasso, Shakespeare, Eminem, and Spielberg. Broad inspiration is the same as fake inspiration, and the makers of The Artist ought to be ashamed of themselves, especially since nothing in it even vaguely resembles the work of those masters. Murnau was lightyears ahead...what a disgrace.


Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:21 pm
Post Re: THE ARTIST
"Waaaahhhhhhhhh," is pretty much my response to this non-issue.


Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:03 pm
Director

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:44 pm
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Post Re: THE ARTIST
from deadline(hadn't thought about the Best Score category)

Quote:
Separately, I’m told by our Oscar expert Pete Hammond that the music branch of the Academy reviewed the eligibility of The Artist for Best Score, because the film employed Herrmann’s music. Because 80% of the music was original, and because the inclusion of Herrmann’s memorable music was meant as an homage in that rarity of rarities, an old-style silent film full of music, the film was deemed eligible. The Weinstein Company continues not to comment on the matter.



Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:13 pm
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Post Re: THE ARTIST
Blonde Almond wrote:
Quote:
Los Angeles: “I want to report a rape,” said Kim Novak, the legendary star of “Vertigo,” “Picnic,” and many other revered classics. “My body of work has been violated by ‘The Artist.’”


What a ridiculous overreaction.


Not to mention highly insulting to anyone who actually has been raped.

-Jeremy


Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:36 pm
Post Re: THE ARTIST
thered47 wrote:
Blonde Almond wrote:
Quote:
Los Angeles: “I want to report a rape,” said Kim Novak, the legendary star of “Vertigo,” “Picnic,” and many other revered classics. “My body of work has been violated by ‘The Artist.’”


What a ridiculous overreaction.


Not to mention highly insulting to anyone who actually has been raped.

-Jeremy

Yeah, I hate it when people misuse that phrase, couldn't she just say stolen?


Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:39 pm
Post Re: THE ARTIST
Quote:
Yeah, I hate it when people misuse that phrase, couldn't she just say stolen?


Strong emotional reactions result in hyperbole. For some people, sitting through this film is painful enough to provoke such a comment.


Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:57 pm
Post Re: THE ARTIST
MGamesCook wrote:
Quote:
Yeah, I hate it when people misuse that phrase, couldn't she just say stolen?


Strong emotional reactions result in hyperbole. For some people, sitting through this film is painful enough to provoke such a comment.

Yeah I get that, but "raped" is the one word which always sounds wrong in any type of analogy, because it's such a heinous act, equating it to something minor strikes me as offensive.


Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:06 am
Post Re: THE ARTIST
thered47 wrote:
Blonde Almond wrote:
Quote:
Los Angeles: “I want to report a rape,” said Kim Novak, the legendary star of “Vertigo,” “Picnic,” and many other revered classics. “My body of work has been violated by ‘The Artist.’”


What a ridiculous overreaction.


Not to mention highly insulting to anyone who actually has been raped.

-Jeremy


Awful choice of words, absolutely. Clear-cut, too. Once in a while I'm inclined to link to the Wiki article on Controversies about the word "niggardly". Best to be careful when your picking your hyperbole. Or SAT word that can and will be confused for a racial epithet.

MGamesCook wrote:
Quote:
Yeah, I hate it when people misuse that phrase, couldn't she just say stolen?


Strong
emotional reactions result in hyperbole. For some people, sitting
through this film is painful enough to provoke such a comment.


And those people should seek psychiatric help immediately. For if sitting through a family-friendly silent movie somehow compares to rape...


Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:24 am
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