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7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y' 
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Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
NotHughGrant wrote:
1. It's the only one that takes a really adult theme. It's easy to have a bad guy, or limited group of bad guys, but a superhero film where an entire government is the adversary is pretty unique.

I thought the level of simplification that it went through between the book and the film was unnecessary and probably underestimated the intelligence of its audience. As rousing as the film is, I couldn't help but wince whenever the bad guys are onscreen. They are largely reduced to bile-spewing fascist stereotypes.

Plus, the whole anarchist angle (to me, is the most fascinating element of the book) is greatly downplayed. The story used to come within a stone's throw of legitimately furious outsider art, but the film plays a bit more closely to conventional democratic ideas.


Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:42 pm
Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
Ken wrote:
Plus, the whole anarchist angle (to me, is the most fascinating element of the book) is greatly downplayed. The story used to come within a stone's throw of legitimately furious outsider art, but the film plays a bit more closely to conventional democratic ideas.


I believe that was Alan Moore's main beef with the film version, and why he asked for his name to be removed from the credits.


Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:53 pm
Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
I think he had his name removed on principle, even disregarding any other issues he might have had with it. Ever since the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen debacle, he has understandably done his best to stay 100% uninvolved with movie adaptations of his work.

Though word has it that he did enjoy the Justice League Unlimited adaptation of "For the Man Who Has Everything"...


Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:03 pm
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Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
Ken wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
1. It's the only one that takes a really adult theme. It's easy to have a bad guy, or limited group of bad guys, but a superhero film where an entire government is the adversary is pretty unique.

I thought the level of simplification that it went through between the book and the film was unnecessary and probably underestimated the intelligence of its audience. As rousing as the film is, I couldn't help but wince whenever the bad guys are onscreen. They are largely reduced to bile-spewing fascist stereotypes.

Plus, the whole anarchist angle (to me, is the most fascinating element of the book) is greatly downplayed. The story used to come within a stone's throw of legitimately furious outsider art, but the film plays a bit more closely to conventional democratic ideas.


I read the graphic novel in completed form (albeit after seeing the film) and I thought the most complex thing about it was the sheer number of characters.

The film may indulge in stereotypes a little but isn't much less complex than the novel. And with my post I wasn't saying V for Vendetta is a perfect film by any means; just that it's the most ambitious of the superhero genre and that it mostly works in its execution.

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Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:37 am
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Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
Jonny Larue -
Quote:
I will say that I do like V For Vendetta quite a bit, but one difference that I think it suffers compared to other "superhero movies" is that he is always trapped behind the mask and is never allowed to intigrate with society; he is always the outsider. When casting Batman, they generally cast Bruce Wayne and then see how he looks in the suit. I would say that Nolan's Batman features are superior (IMO)


I don't think remaining behind a mask is a problem at all. I think the opposite in fact. Keeping the mystery intact lends to the charisma of the character.


James Kunz -


Quote:
Well I think NHG is pointing to the fact that John Hurt played Winston Smith in 1984 and now in V for Vendetta he's playing the Big Brother character, but I take your point about Mr. Hurt's career.


Yes. A very sharp contrast. And a great actor, I agree.

Threeper -

Quote:
Another bad guy role (to further support that he didn't play against type in V for Vendetta)


I've probably seen less films than some of you guys but when I think of John Hurt I think of -

1984
Quentin Crisp
Elephant Man
Midnight Express
..and lately Hellboy

I think of him as a protagonist usually. Although I may be wrong all things considered.

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Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:48 am
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Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
If you want some good John Hurt (and some good Tim Roth, and some good Terence Stamp) check out The Hit. Awesome film.


Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:22 pm
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Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
PeachyPete wrote:
If you want some good John Hurt (and some good Tim Roth, and some good Terence Stamp) check out The Hit. Awesome film.


Agreed. The denouement isn't perfect, but the scene where
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Stamp finally realizes that he is about to die, and all his self-possession falls away

is amazing.

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Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:34 pm
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Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
PeachyPete wrote:
If you want some good John Hurt (and some good Tim Roth, and some good Terence Stamp) check out The Hit. Awesome film.

Agreed 100%. I mentioned this movie before (John Hurt). I have seen it many times. I had the pleasure owning a 16mm print of it. These are/were usually 3:4 prints made for television broadcast, sold second hand - through distributors such as Derann Films (UK). Technically inferior to BluRay, not to mention the huge bulky reels, but it had this silky film look which I love. Unfortunately humidity and chemical instability eventually destroyed my 70s through 90s film collection (on real film).

BTW: Not Hugh Grant: yes - John Hurt was outstanding and endlessly likeable as the scape goat, slowly dying, intellectual good guy in Midnight Express. With his blonde long hair and shaved-in receding hair line he was hardly recognizeable.


Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:43 pm
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Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
Why Do The Right Thing is better than Crash:

1: The characters in Do The Right Thing are better developed. A large majority of the ones in Crash, while more than one-dimensional, are clearly archetypes.

2: Lee keeps things tighter than Haggis does. He introduces a wide range of characters. But limits enough so them and the story can develop.

3: Do The Right Thing has a more leisurely pace. This works well for the type of story it's telling.

4: Lee is more subtle when it comes to moralizing. Often Haggis seems to be forcing his points.

5: Do The Right Thing has more humor.

6: The music in Do The Right Thing (especially "Fight The Power) is more memorable.

7: With Do The Right Thing, Spike Lee seemed to be focused primarily on making larger points about the world in the context of telling a personal story. (Same as Paul T Anderson was doing with Magnolia). Haggis in Crash seemed determined to tell a perosnal story in the context of making larger points about the world. That utlimately is why I love Do The Right Thing. But admire Crash. Crash isn't bad by any means. But it's immensely overrated. As a race relations film see above and as an ensemble hyperlink film Magnolia is far better.

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Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
NotHughGrant wrote:
Batman Begins in better than the Dark Knight because -

1. The character of Batman is explored in reasonable depth in Begins. But neglected somewhat in the Dark Knight

2. Begins has a story that feels like it's been told by a storyteller, whereas the Dark Knight feels like a group of storytellers have competed to shoehorn in their own scenes.

3. Neeson in Begins is a better adversery than Ledger in the Dark Knight.

4. The pacing of Begins is better. It knows when to up the tension and when to back off.

5. Going back to what Ken once said, the Joker doesn't entirely add up in the context of the Dark Knight.

6. The Dark Knight is too long

7. Just because


The thing that didn't work for me is that I never believed that anything would happen, and I never believed that Joker was causing all this chaos just to do it. It wasn't developed in the right way, so to speak.

Don't get me wrong, it's a very good film, but not nearly as good as everyone says it is.

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Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:18 pm
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Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
7 reasons why The Rock is better than Die Hard

1. There's a lot more action in The Rock.
2. As good as Alan Rickman is as Hans Gruber, I found Ed Harris to be much more compelling as renegade General Francis X. Hummel. Anger and passion are much more interesting than simple greed.
3. A beat cop stopping a gang of robbers from stealing a fortune doesn't have the immediacy of a geeky FBI lab rat stopping a group of marines from unleashing bioweapons on the San Francisco Bay area.
4. The score by Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer, and Harry Gregson-Williams is much better than Michael Kamen's score for "Die Hard"
5. "The Rock" has better one-liners than "Die Hard."
6. "The Rock" has a chase scene between a Hummer and a Ferrari; "Die Hard" has a tiny crash sequence involving a limo.
7. The military guys on the mainland in "The Rock" aren't nearly as dumb as the head cop in "Die Hard."

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Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:31 pm
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Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
moviemkr7 wrote:
7 reasons why The Rock is better than Die Hard

1. There's a lot more action in The Rock.
2. As good as Alan Rickman is as Hans Gruber, I found Ed Harris to be much more compelling as renegade General Francis X. Hummel. Anger and passion are much more interesting than simple greed.
3. A beat cop stopping a gang of robbers from stealing a fortune doesn't have the immediacy of a geeky FBI lab rat stopping a group of marines from unleashing bioweapons on the San Francisco Bay area.
4. The score by Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer, and Harry Gregson-Williams is much better than Michael Kamen's score for "Die Hard"
5. "The Rock" has better one-liners than "Die Hard."
6. "The Rock" has a chase scene between a Hummer and a Ferrari; "Die Hard" has a tiny crash sequence involving a limo.
7. The military guys on the mainland in "The Rock" aren't nearly as dumb as the head cop in "Die Hard."


Dude...it's directed by Michael Bay.


Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:37 pm
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Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
ram1312 wrote:
moviemkr7 wrote:
7 reasons why The Rock is better than Die Hard

1. There's a lot more action in The Rock.
2. As good as Alan Rickman is as Hans Gruber, I found Ed Harris to be much more compelling as renegade General Francis X. Hummel. Anger and passion are much more interesting than simple greed.
3. A beat cop stopping a gang of robbers from stealing a fortune doesn't have the immediacy of a geeky FBI lab rat stopping a group of marines from unleashing bioweapons on the San Francisco Bay area.
4. The score by Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer, and Harry Gregson-Williams is much better than Michael Kamen's score for "Die Hard"
5. "The Rock" has better one-liners than "Die Hard."
6. "The Rock" has a chase scene between a Hummer and a Ferrari; "Die Hard" has a tiny crash sequence involving a limo.
7. The military guys on the mainland in "The Rock" aren't nearly as dumb as the head cop in "Die Hard."


Dude...it's directed by Michael Bay.


I'm so torn here...they're both so bad

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Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:40 pm
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Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
ram1312 wrote:
moviemkr7 wrote:
7 reasons why The Rock is better than Die Hard

1. There's a lot more action in The Rock.
2. As good as Alan Rickman is as Hans Gruber, I found Ed Harris to be much more compelling as renegade General Francis X. Hummel. Anger and passion are much more interesting than simple greed.
3. A beat cop stopping a gang of robbers from stealing a fortune doesn't have the immediacy of a geeky FBI lab rat stopping a group of marines from unleashing bioweapons on the San Francisco Bay area.
4. The score by Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer, and Harry Gregson-Williams is much better than Michael Kamen's score for "Die Hard"
5. "The Rock" has better one-liners than "Die Hard."
6. "The Rock" has a chase scene between a Hummer and a Ferrari; "Die Hard" has a tiny crash sequence involving a limo.
7. The military guys on the mainland in "The Rock" aren't nearly as dumb as the head cop in "Die Hard."


Dude...it's directed by Michael Bay.


I'm quite certain that was a different Michael Bay. Everyone just got confused but since the movie was received so well the real Michael Bay just went along with it. He then ordered Tony Scott and Brett Ratner to assassinate the fake Michael Bay so this mistake would never happen again. Clearly it's the only logical conclusion.


Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:04 pm
Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
Well, I feel the need to do this with the impending release of Star Wars: The Old Republic next week.

7 reasons why the Original Star Wars Trilogy is better than the Prequel Trilogy:

- No Jar Jar Binks.

- Obi Wan is just better in the OT, and this goes beyond being older and wiser. Alec Guinness got to put more character into the role than Ewan MacGregor was able to in the PT films.

- Lucas didn't write the OT films by himself; he was willing to collaborate with others more, even though it was likely out of necessity as he wasn't a billionaire in 1977.

- The OT films were aimed at a more general audience than primarily at kids.

- Less reliance on visual effects to tell the story: the OT films were ahead of their time in the VFX category, but the characters were developed and the mythos was fleshed out.

- Lucas didn't direct all 3 films: there is little doubt for me now that The Empire Strikes Back would have had a different feel had Lucas directed it instead of Kershner.

- Gary Kurtz: it could be argued that Kurtz was more of a driving force behind the production of the first 2 films than Lucas, especially with ESB.


Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:47 pm
Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
I disagree about Obi-Wan, Guiness absolutely hated his role and it really shows, McGregor does a much better job IMO. I also disagree about the prequels being aimed at kids, Phantom Menace perhaps, but Revenge was the darkest film in the series.


Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:59 pm
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Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
Why Dark City is better than The Matrix.

1: No unnecessary sequels to Dark City.

2: Better acting (aside from Fishburne, all of the actors in Dark City can act rings around the ones in the Matrix).

3: Proyas and his co-writers have more faith in the story. While Dark City does have (very good) action sequences, they exist to keep the compelling story going. The Matrix seems to use action sequences as a substitute for letting the story follow its path.

4: Dark City seriously considers the philosophical questions it raises. The Matrix does so mainly as a way from point A to point B.

5: Dark City takes time to fully explore the world it creates.

6: Dark City also offers more background on the characters. While The Matrix started out promising by the end it had descended to the level of a comic book. Dark City is in some ways like a sci-fi fantasy film that Dostoevsky would write.

7: Dark City isn't afraid to make the audience think.

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Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:06 am
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Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
Jeff Wilder wrote:
While The Matrix started out promising by the end it had descended to the level of a comic book.

.....................What??????????


Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:55 am
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Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
Pedro wrote:
Jeff Wilder wrote:
While The Matrix started out promising by the end it had descended to the level of a comic book.

.....................What??????????


Well Neo does fly away. It's pretty weak

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Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:44 am
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Post Re: 7 reasons why 'X' is better than 'Y'
I can agree with that. The Matrix blows its intellectual load in the first hour. After that, it's all chases, gunfights, and kung fu.


Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:30 pm
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