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Occupy Wall Street 
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Post Occupy Wall Street
So, just curious as to what everyone on here thinks of the movement. Do you personally know anyone that's joined the movement?


Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:08 pm
Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
I don't think it's going to be the thing that changes our system for the better, but I do think it's a sign that such a change is inevitable. For a long time, people have been content to live in a society that gives so little to so many. That's clearly beginning to change.


Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:23 pm
Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
Agreed, i've been fortunate in alot of ways due to my dad having his own business and not having to worry about mortgage payments, I haven't been so fortunate when ti comes to finding work though, i've been trying for 3 years to get a job, I managed to get an interview for a minimum wage job but that didn't lead anywhere either, then again with school and having to look after my grandfather, I don't have that much time to work anyways, So I definitely sympathize with everyone who' been jerked around by the system and gotten screwed over by fat cats who are too lazy and/or uncaring towards everyone below their pay grade. My local government is especially biased towards social work, as many programs have had their funding slashed to an insane degree which has resulted in alot of those programs shutting down and leaving those who are unemployed and without insurance with very few options.


Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:37 pm
Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
I think the movement itself is largely unfocused and disorganized. Throw in a dash of "misplaced aggression" for good measure. It's gone from a "hey there's something happening over there" to a bit of a joke.

Take a few minutes out of your busy day and have a laugh:

Triumph The Insult Comic Dog visits OWS


Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:11 pm
Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
I do think they make some very good points, but unless they start offering actual solutions, I don't think they'll last very long.


Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:24 pm
Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
It is unfocused and disorganized, but it's far from a joke. People are legitimately upset. I don't see that getting mollified anytime soon. What's happening now will have long term implications about how we'll function as a society in the coming years, no matter how much the talking heads try to paint it as a handful of hippies with nothing better to do.

Like I said, I don't see the movement itself changing much of anything. I don't think that's necessarily its purpose. When people with different walks of life, personal goals, and independent thoughts come together under one banner, you're not going to get a unified mission statement or a checklist of demands. What you're going to get is a sense that the status quo is no longer tenable, and that those with the know-how and resources to improve things had better get serious about it.


Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:50 am
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
Vexer wrote:
I do think they make some very good points, but unless they start offering actual solutions, I don't think they'll last very long.


This is the point. No-one has offered a solution to global capitalism. Communism failed in the 20th century and the middle-class student protestors don't want their estate being absorbed by the state anyway.

There is no alternative beyond tighter regulation of the banks and for as long as this is a fact nothing much can ever change.

And news this side of the pond tells the Republican Party will be back at the helm sooner rather than later.

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Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:32 am
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
People were legitimately upset as part of the Tea Party movement of a couple of years ago too and there too you had this big splash that eventually was maligned and jabbed at.

So one of the things that most of these OWS people are pissed about is the bailouts to private industry. So in Charleston, why are the OWS'ers stalking Michele Bachmann, who also opposed private sector bailouts, and yet haven't stepped anywhere near Pres. Obama, who certainly had as much to do with those as anyone?

When I see people railing about "all college should be free" and "we should get rid of all money", or "we should forgive all debt everywhere", I just roll my eyes. Granted these are probably the fringe elements who get on camera, but at least the Teat Party was able to focus themselves to become actually become minor players politics (taking on both DEM and established GOP candidates).

When you bitch about "corporate America" and "filthy rich 1%", all the while texting people on your corporate supplied I-Phone, and yet NOT marching against Leonardo Dicaprio, Michael Moore, or Derek Jeter (all part of the "1%"), I find their commitment to the cause to be a bit suspect. You're either part of the "1%" or you're not.

Their energies should either be focused into to something productive, or redirected elsewhere. What they have going on right now could lead down a very dark path indeed. I personally don't think anarchy is preferable to what we have now. At least the Tea Party folks went home at the end of the day and cleaned up after themselves to boot.


Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:36 am
Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
Johnny-I think you're greatly oversimplifying the movement, they don't want anarchy at all(those so-called "riots" in Oakland weren't caused by anyone in OWS, they were initiated by a bunch of hoodlums who just wnated ot cuase trouble and had NOTHING whatosever to do with the movement), they just want the ability to make a decent living, is that too much to ask? What would be the point of going after people like Moore, Jeter and Dicaprio? They're not the ones who are screwing over people's lives every single day, big corporations are? Obama may have made mistakes, but at least he's TRYING to get this country back on track, which is a hell of alot more then I can say about most Republicans, whose "solution" to most problems seems to be denying any wrongdoing and refusing to make any comprimises, Rush Limbaugh being a prime example, i'm not going to mince words, he's one of the dumbest motherfucker's planet right now :evil:

I doa gree wit hyou that OWS should be better organized if they want to accomplish anything, but I still agree with them in principle.


Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:09 pm
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
I sympathize with OWS. It's been pegged as an anti-capitalism protest, but a little bit of deeper digging proves that's hardly the case. This is, however, a protest against inequality - inequality of wealth, yes, but also inequality of opportunity.

Consider for the moment that we have an entire generation of young people who have gone to school, have become saddled with debt, and are faced with no job opportunities except menial labor with no prospects of advancement. I'm well aware of it because I'm one of them. I graduated from college over a year ago and despite applying for dozens and dozens of jobs, I've not had a single person call me.

It's easy to dismiss OWS as dirty hippies, but their grievances are legitimate. I don't know what the ultimate outcome of this movement will be, but I do see positives in it. For starters, it's gotten people to actually talk about the fact that ever since the election of Ronald Reagan, working-class Americans have gotten the shaft. I consider that a victory in itself.

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Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:51 pm
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
Consider for the moment that we have an entire generation of young people who have gone to school, have become saddled with debt, and are faced with no job opportunities except menial labor with no prospects of advancement. I'm well aware of it because I'm one of them. I graduated from college over a year ago and despite applying for dozens and dozens of jobs, I've not had a single person call me.


OK...when you phrase it like that ("entire generation"), you make it sound like NO ONE who is graduating is finding a job, and that is not the case. I believe I saw a stat that the overall unemployment for those with college degrees is closer to 4.5% than the 9% aggregate.

I can't speak to your situation; I don't know if your degree is in Nuclear Physics or Theory of Dance. When I left college 20 years ago, I entered into what was termed "one of the most difficult job markets for new grads ever" (do they say this every year?). My degree was in IT. I interviewed with several companies as part of on campus interviews and a few off campus. (A local bar would give you a free beer for every job rejection letter you brought in from April to June.) I received a total of 1 offer very late in the process and it was 50 miles away from where I currently live and I didn't want to relocate. So I took it and I commuted 50 miles each way. I had that job for 15 years before I eventually located a better job closer to home.

Now I'm not saying that the market in 1991 was the same as it was in 2011; it wasn't. This is much worse. But just because you got the diploma doesn't mean you gotta stop working at it. You ARE working at it? Well then work harder at it. Think outside the box. You willing to move or drive a long distance?

I don't mean to come off as an asshole, but you put in the long hours getting that degree, I don't like to hear it's going to waste. There's no guarantees in life. I have someone very close to me who achieved his bachelor's degree 10+ years ago but has been able to do nothing with it since. He doesn't bitch and he doesn't complain and he doesn't "march on Wall Street" or otherwise blame somebody else for his problems; he continues to plunk along and do the best he can with his otherwise limited job skills. And at the end of the day, he is still pretty much happy with what he DOES have.

Sorry...but life tends to reward the do'ers, not the complainers; that's just the way it is.


Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:53 pm
Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
johnny larue wrote:
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
Consider for the moment that we have an entire generation of young people who have gone to school, have become saddled with debt, and are faced with no job opportunities except menial labor with no prospects of advancement. I'm well aware of it because I'm one of them. I graduated from college over a year ago and despite applying for dozens and dozens of jobs, I've not had a single person call me.


OK...when you phrase it like that ("entire generation"), you make it sound like NO ONE who is graduating is finding a job, and that is not the case. I believe I saw a stat that the overall unemployment for those with college degrees is closer to 4.5% than the 9% aggregate.

I can't speak to your situation; I don't know if your degree is in Nuclear Physics or Theory of Dance. When I left college 20 years ago, I entered into what was termed "one of the most difficult job markets for new grads ever" (do they say this every year?). My degree was in IT. I interviewed with several companies as part of on campus interviews and a few off campus. (A local bar would give you a free beer for every job rejection letter you brought in from April to June.) I received a total of 1 offer very late in the process and it was 50 miles away from where I currently live and I didn't want to relocate. So I took it and I commuted 50 miles each way. I had that job for 15 years before I eventually located a better job closer to home.

Now I'm not saying that the market in 1991 was the same as it was in 2011; it wasn't. This is much worse. But just because you got the diploma doesn't mean you gotta stop working at it. You ARE working at it? Well then work harder at it. Think outside the box. You willing to move or drive a long distance?

I don't mean to come off as an asshole, but you put in the long hours getting that degree, I don't like to hear it's going to waste. There's no guarantees in life. I have someone very close to me who achieved his bachelor's degree 10+ years ago but has been able to do nothing with it since. He doesn't bitch and he doesn't complain and he doesn't "march on Wall Street" or otherwise blame somebody else for his problems; he continues to plunk along and do the best he can with his otherwise limited job skills. And at the end of the day, he is still pretty much happy with what he DOES have.

Sorry...but life tends to reward the do'ers, not the complainers; that's just the way it is.

I'ts not always that simple though, telling someone who has a wife and kids to look after to "work harder" isn't going to help, and you can't totally disregard every complaint as many of them are perfectly legitimate.


Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:27 pm
Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
I'm not disregarding "every complaint". What I am saying is just standing around waiting for somebody to hand you a job (not that that's what SexualChocolate is doing) is a waste of time. Protesting does little to put food on the table. If you think the government should step in and give you unlimited aid or pay your debts, well that money's gotta come from somewhere and that "somewhere" is someone else's pocket. They say "take it from the 1%, they can spare it!" I don't agree with that. And no...I'm not part of the 1%.

Sorry...you've caught me at the wrong time...I'm about a 1/4 way through Atlas Shrugged. I'm not as absolute in my positions as Rand, but within the extreme contexts of her story, she does make some interesting points.

I hear Hayek's The Road To Serfdom is a good read relating to Gov't handouts. That might be next on my list.


Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:49 pm
Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
johnny larue wrote:
I'm not disregarding "every complaint". What I am saying is just standing around waiting for somebody to hand you a job (not that that's what SexualChocolate is doing) is a waste of time. Protesting does little to put food on the table. If you think the government should step in and give you unlimited aid or pay your debts, well that money's gotta come from somewhere and that "somewhere" is someone else's pocket. They say "take it from the 1%, they can spare it!" I don't agree with that. And no...I'm not part of the 1%.

Sorry...you've caught me at the wrong time...I'm about a 1/4 way through Atlas Shrugged. I'm not as absolute in my positions as Rand, but within the extreme contexts of her story, she does make some interesting points.

I hear Hayek's The Road To Serfdom is a good read relating to Gov't handouts. That might be next on my list.

I didn't know the Occupy Wall Street protesters were a bunch of Robin Hoods. :/


Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:01 pm
Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
I suspect they don't know what they are. Depends on which end of the park you ask on any given day.


Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:10 pm
Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
The thing that really surprised me is just how in debt your college students are. I knew that a degree was pricey, but these kinds of figures are ridiculous. The government pays for a first degree here. If memory serves right, Germany has very little/no fees for its nationals too. Why is college so expensive?


Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:42 pm
Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
ed_metal_head wrote:
The thing that really surprised me is just how in debt your college students are. I knew that a degree was pricey, but these kinds of figures are ridiculous. The government pays for a first degree here. If memory serves right, Germany has very little/no fees for its nationals too. Why is college so expensive?

I don't know. I think college is stupid.


Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:47 pm
Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
ed_metal_head wrote:
The thing that really surprised me is just how in debt your college students are. I knew that a degree was pricey, but these kinds of figures are ridiculous. The government pays for a first degree here. If memory serves right, Germany has very little/no fees for its nationals too. Why is college so expensive?


Does everyone go to college then, or are they very selective about who "can" go? I would think laws of supply and demand would keep many people out.

Here it depends on where you go. A degree at a state university can be...well...I won't say "reasonable", but much cheaper than the Ivy League schools. I've read a few right wing rants on the subject of why colleges are so expensive, but I wouldn't want to quote those as "definitive studies" on the matter. Tuition alone for our state university where I live for "in state" residents (for an average course load) is currently around $4800 per semester (then add in living expenses, books and other fees). So you're probably looking at $10,000 per year before living expenses. When I started at the same university 25 years ago, the tuition was $865 per semester...so yeah...it's kinda outpaced inflation by just a little bit. That's government for you. I was able to hold a part-time job paying a dollar or 2 above minimum wage and still easily make tuition.

One thing's for sure...if you're going to be spending that kind of coin, you better have a marketable major picked out and not just spend 4 years "finding yourself."

Another alternative is doing a 2 year stint in the military. I've had friends who did this and found that the GI Bill can go a long way to defraying costs.


Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:31 pm
Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
Pedro wrote:
ed_metal_head wrote:
The thing that really surprised me is just how in debt your college students are. I knew that a degree was pricey, but these kinds of figures are ridiculous. The government pays for a first degree here. If memory serves right, Germany has very little/no fees for its nationals too. Why is college so expensive?

I don't know. I think college is stupid.


Here's the thing: college in the US, in pure numbers, is indeed expensive. The reasons are simple American/capitalism reasons: they're that expensive because people are willing to pay that much and people who work there are significantly overpaid.

All of that said, there simply isn't a good excuse to leave school with $30k in debt or more.

Group 1: If you work decently hard in school and get decent grades and do a half-ass job applying for scholarships, you can go to school in-state to a public university at a marginal-to-no-cost. Now, that may mean you have to go to one of the University towns in the middle of nowhere (there is a state school in my area with a ton of students that is 30 minutes from a mall and over an hour to a major city, but for in-staters its virtually free, and they give you a laptop and never charge for books).

Group 2: If you work hard in high school and get excellent grades and pursue every scholarship you can find, you can go to a good school, even a private one, at a marginal cost.

Group 3: If you're an elite student, you can get into a great school at little-to-no cost. It's just how it works.

So why are 22 year-olds graduating with $50k in debt? Simple: they try to move up a group in quality of school without putting in the work. The good-to-great schools make their money from kids willing to pay their whole way. The other reason (and I'm thinking this is a very American thing) is that kids getting out of high school get set on a certain school or part of the country or desire to move away from home, and pay attention to all of those things rather than the reality that they don't know what they want to do. So a kid from North Carolina falls in love with Columbia and starts into debt he'll be paying off in his 70s. Or a girl from Illinois, with an offer from U of I, chooses to attend UCLA instead because it's more glamorous, and ends up getting the same quality of education for 1,000x the price.

All of this doesn't even mention community colleges that are virtually free and offer quality early-level education anyway.

Of course, there are exceptions, and some kids do get screwed by the system. But the majority of those in major debt are there because they put themselves there willingly rather than take a cheaper option.


Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:38 pm
Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
The high cost of tuition is the main reason why I most likely won't be going to regular college(a university is most definitely out of the question), community college is all I can afford right now, so i'm planning on getting an undergraduate degree in Social Work and becoming a counselor.


Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:59 pm
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