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October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament" 
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Post Re: October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament"
Prepare for a slight topic derail.

markshell wrote:
Why do we need so much junk in our homes anyway? Is it worth that much having lots of collectables instead of near invisible content? Isn't the content what matters the most?

Personally, I don't care about physical media anymore. I'm 25 and I think it's just a waste of space (and way more cumbersome to search through it) having tons of plastic cases with paper booklets and all of the stuff I love. I would gladly replace (and I have, for the most of it) all my music, films, etc for digital copies burried on a single Gazillian-Byte Hard Drive next to my hometheater. The whole argument that "in my days it was a joy to sniff at the scent of a new comic book"

You had me until here.

In the case of movies, whatever the storage medium may be, we still experience them in largely the same way. Either we use the museum-era technique of projecting light onto a reflective screen, or we use the slightly-less-so technique of displaying images as a matrix of pixels.

But, as far as comics and books go, reading them on a backlit screen is a very different experience from reading them as ink on paper. Your eye scans differently. Your brain processes differently. In cases when the medium of display matches the medium of creation, the authors create them differently. There is a tremendous gulf between the two, unlike with movies, music, etc.


Last edited by Ken on Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:29 pm
Post Re: October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament"
Patrick wrote:
Vexer wrote:
So i'm perfectly fine with sacrificing a little shelf space to store physical media, sometimes I clear out part of my movie collection by either donating them to my local library or throwing them away(though I only throw away the films I really don't care for)


Have you thought about selling them! I'm sure someone will buy it if you're going to trash it......shouldn't there be a Disc Replay by you?

I have thought about it, but i'm pretty lazy, so who knows when i'll ever get around to it.


Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:36 pm
Gaffer

Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:33 pm
Posts: 11
Post Re: October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament"
Ken wrote:
Prepare for a slight topic derail.

markshell wrote:
Why do we need so much junk in our homes anyway? Is it worth that much having lots of collectables instead of near invisible content? Isn't the content what matters the most?

Personally, I don't care about physical media anymore. I'm 25 and I think it's just a waste of space (and way more cumbersome to search through it) having tons of plastic cases with paper booklets and all of the stuff I love. I would gladly replace (and I have, for the most of it) all my music, films, etc for digital copies burried on a single Gazillian-Byte Hard Drive next to my hometheater. The whole argument that "in my days it was a joy to sniff at the scent of a new comic book"

You had me until here.

In the case of movies, whatever the storage medium may be, we still experience them in largely the same way. Either we use the museum-era technique of projecting light onto a reflective screen, or we use the slightly-less-so technique of displaying images as a matrix of pixels.

But, as far as comics and books go, reading them on a backlit screen is a very different experience than reading them as ink on paper. Your eye scans differently. Your brain processes differently. In cases when the medium of display matches the medium of creation, the authors create them differently. There is a tremendous gulf between the two, unlike with movies, music, etc.


I completely agree with you. In case of the technology behind it, maybe it's not yet advanced enough (at least I'm not aware of) to say that digital books are better than print on the quality of the reading itself. The comic book example I gave was actually just to make a point on the sentimentality over it (since the smell of the paper is not really relevant, unlike the quality of the reading experience, which IS totally relevant).

Nowadays convenience is stepping over quality in most cases. Listening to a music on a 34324324W CD system at home is different than listening to the same music on Grooveshark online or on a headphone through an Ipod on the way to work. Eitherway, you are experiencing the same thing with different technologies and they are all more convenient than walking around with a big fat discman and 10 pounds of CDs which are so nineties. Maybe the amount of options is what's at fault here. We don't care because the final product doesn't have a face anymore.


Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:03 pm
Profile
Post Re: October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament"
Ive actually been selling off my collection of the past couple years. Ive dumped half of my collection, and it still fills 3 bookscases.

If I get the bug to watchsomething, its really just easier to download it, watch it, then delete it.

Only bluray buys for me are must haves. Most of those are catalog titles, as ive only picked up a 2 or 3 films released this year.


Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:39 pm
Post Re: October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament"
Vexer wrote:
Dragonbeard wrote:
Shut up Meg.

Kidding :P you're right, and I'd love to use up my space more productively (Apocalypse sized 40k table <3) however if someone said I could replace every DVD/BRD/CD/Vinyl/Cassette/VHS/etc with digital copies thereof, for nothing, then I would.

Yeah, but what if your hard drive crashes? Then you'd lose EVERYTHING, movies, TV shows, music, etc. My hard drive crashed earlier this year, and oh man did that suck! :evil: Granted all I really lost was a list of films I was planning on seeing at some point, but it was a long list, so trying to make a new list is kind of a pain. So i'm perfectly fine with sacrificing a little shelf space to store physical media, sometimes I clear out part of my movie collection by either donating them to my local library or throwing them away(though I only throw away the films I really don't care for)


Well exactly, just add that to my list of conditions; a spare copy of everything in case the first lot gets knackered :P

I don't actually want the above, and your reasoning is partly why. Earlier this year, I had to do a factory restart of my laptop and found that I could no longer play ANY music files stored on my spare hard drive (my lap top has a shrivelled 160gb). Now I must sort through the mountain of shit that is my belongings, find my CDs (all 400 odd of them) and re-rip every single damn one. Probably better than losing the lot because I didn't own physical copies as back up :)


Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:38 pm
Post Re: October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament"
Dragonbeard wrote:
Vexer wrote:
Dragonbeard wrote:
Shut up Meg.

Kidding :P you're right, and I'd love to use up my space more productively (Apocalypse sized 40k table <3) however if someone said I could replace every DVD/BRD/CD/Vinyl/Cassette/VHS/etc with digital copies thereof, for nothing, then I would.

Yeah, but what if your hard drive crashes? Then you'd lose EVERYTHING, movies, TV shows, music, etc. My hard drive crashed earlier this year, and oh man did that suck! :evil: Granted all I really lost was a list of films I was planning on seeing at some point, but it was a long list, so trying to make a new list is kind of a pain. So i'm perfectly fine with sacrificing a little shelf space to store physical media, sometimes I clear out part of my movie collection by either donating them to my local library or throwing them away(though I only throw away the films I really don't care for)


Well exactly, just add that to my list of conditions; a spare copy of everything in case the first lot gets knackered :P

I don't actually want the above, and your reasoning is partly why. Earlier this year, I had to do a factory restart of my laptop and found that I could no longer play ANY music files stored on my spare hard drive (my lap top has a shrivelled 160gb). Now I must sort through the mountain of shit that is my belongings, find my CDs (all 400 odd of them) and re-rip every single damn one. Probably better than losing the lot because I didn't own physical copies as back up :)


What if you scratch your dvd? Also, what about SSDs? They might be a little more expensive now, but they will keep getting bigger and cheaper. And, if people do like they can do...they can have any movie within 15-20 min. This argument is going the way of vhs very soon...


Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:34 am
Post Re: October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament"
well It's easy enough to repair a scratched DVD, my local library and video stores will clean any DVD for free and that usually fixes it, repairing a hard drive on the other hand costs hundreds of dollars, so yeah I think i'll definitely stick with physical media! I don't give a rat's ass about SSD's, they can crash just like a hard drive, "more reliable" dosen't mean impervious to errors, so buying one of those just sounds like a waste of money.


Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:21 am
Post Re: October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament"
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
What if you scratch your dvd? Also, what about SSDs? They might be a little more expensive now, but they will keep getting bigger and cheaper. And, if people do like they can do...they can have any movie within 15-20 min. This argument is going the way of vhs very soon...


+shudders+ I don't like to think about it! A small time record store near me (think Championship Vinyl run by The Smiths) are able to clean discs so on the off chance it happens, there is a solution (although it shouldn't be done too often I think!)


Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:27 pm
Post Re: October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament"
I am of a similar age, family situation and collecting pattern as James. In the late mid 1980's and through the 90's I was blessed with a VCR that innately didn't give a darn about Macrovision copy protection and I was able to rent movies with great abandon, copy to another tape and return. I amassed a huge collection and, being the immature dope that I was, I was unconcerned about video quality. They were all for the most part copied at SLP speed; I could cram 3 movies on one tape! A few special movies got the SP copy (1 movie per tape), but they were rare.

Then when DVD's hit mainstream around 1998 or so, I started buying like crazy. Unlike when I first started with VHS, I was now making serious money and had plenty of disposable income. I was probably coming home with around 60 DVD's a year. 95% of them were movies I'd already seen in the theater or was a classic, the other 5% were "flyers" or recommendations. And sometimes that's easy to justify...what's the difference between spending $15 on a new release price at Best Buy vs. taking your wife or girlfriend to the cinema and spending that same $15 on tickets? The cinema gives you a more "grand" (unless you get some a-hole talker or texter in the theater), albeit temporary, experience while the DVD gives you permanent ownership with the bonus of convenience.

As I got older, my journeys to the cinema precipitously dropped (more complex family life), and my purchases of Blu and DVD have slowed to a trickle (maybe 10-15 a year).

One of the reasons I liked to collect movies was the "thrill of collecting" and the other was seeing a good movie, and then wanting to own it so I could share it with others. It wasn't enough to recommend a great movie to someone else, I wanted to experience it with them. I still buy movies to one day share with my kids, but I've kind of outgrown the "thrill of collecting".

I don't illegally download movies, I make too much money and have too many other avenues of legitimate access to mess around with that. One thing that has not been mentioned is the convenience of the home DVR. I have had HBO, Cinemax and Showtime for years and years. (Around 2000 I had a pirate cable box that gave me access to all the premium stations that lasted for 2 or 3 years, but I've been paying for those 3 for the last 10 years.) With the addition of an HD DVR around 2006, now I'm no longer a slave to the programmer's schedule or having to rely on VCR to capture movies I want to see. I can easily setup a recording off HBO for a newer movie or TCM for a classic and keep it on the drive until its convenient to watch. No having to wait for a download.

So between all of that, and Netflix streaming, I no longer have the urgency to collect a physical disc. To be sure, if I see a (in my opinion) 3.4 or 4 star movie, or one that just plain entertained me, I may seek it out on Blu Ray if the price is right. (I am currently keeping an eye out for a cheap copy of Super.) But in my opionion, (and to paraphrase a classic movie quote) it's not the pictures that have gotten smaller, it's my "need" to collect, both from a technological and personality perspective.


On a similar topic, Best Buy is currently running a trade-in promotion where you can bring in any old DVD and they will give you $5 towards a limited selection of Blu Ray titles. Disney also had an upgrade rebate if you bought one of their movies on Blu Ray and sent in the UPC from the an existing DVD copy. So they are still trying to entice people into Blu Ray.


Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:25 am
Post Re: October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament"
I think that the primary reason for the drop in DVD sales could be very simple and not related to technology (availability of downloads and livestreams) or movie quality: Those, who are inclined to purchase movies, already own copies of the movies they regard as worth buying.
The introduction of DVD was a major leap forwards for the home viewing experience. DVDs offer better picture quality, are less fragile and, most importantly, are much easier to handle than VHS. (Does anybody remember having to pay extra charges at a video store for returning not rewound tapes?)
Once you have upgraded from VHS to DVD, further upgrading of your collection, be it re-releases of improved DVD transfers or Blu-Ray, doesn't offer significant benefits. Granted, the picture quality will improve a lot. But the handling is essentially the same. I believe that only a minority of die-hard movie fans is significantly concerned about picture quality (or DVD extras) that they will purchase Blu-Rays or better DVDs even though they already own copies of the film.
So, for roughly a decade, people have been collecting DVDs, which logically means that the market regarding older movies should be more or less saturated.


Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:33 am
Post Re: October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament"
DVDs only became available in the States in 1997 so I'd argue (nitpickingly) that they weren't THAT widely available in 1998 (selection wise). In fact I believe DVD sales only actually overtook VHS in about 2003.

A lot of people also don't realise that one of the biggest improvements DVD had over VHS was sound more than picture. Compare the two and you'll be shocked!

I honestly cannot see a time where we wont at least have the option of physical media. I still own a record player and a modest collection of vinyl, because I honestly enjoy the way it sounds. With BRD, there is just no hassle beyond the price and since I'm picky anyway, that isn't an issue. As I mentioned before, matching BRD in a non physical fashion is just too costly in both time, money and patience none of which I'm willing to spend when there are easier options available right this minute. I'm afraid the vague promise of 'never having to buy/store another disc evar!' has no effect on me whatsoever :)


Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:23 am
Post Re: October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament"
Dragonbeard wrote:
DVDs only became available in the States in 1997 so I'd argue (nitpickingly) that they weren't THAT widely available in 1998 (selection wise). In fact I believe DVD sales only actually overtook VHS in about 2003.


Nitpick accepted; I recall one of my first purchases being Memphis Belle and that was released on DVD in mid-1999, but in my defense, I DID say "around" 1998...

I do recall in those days the DVD shelves at Best Buy being only 1 or 2 aisles with VHS movies taking up 6 or 7 and then watching that inexorable shift in product makeup as VHS was phasing out over the ensuing years.

I also recall the last VHS new release I ever bought; it was Lord Of The Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring as a gift for my brother in law because he refused to buy a DVD player. That came on 2 VHS tapes, but I think it was the theatrical cut. Brother-in-law bought a DVD player about a year later.


Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:36 pm
Director
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Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:09 pm
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Post Re: October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament"
Ken wrote:
There are other ways to try something new other than plunking down cash for a DVD/BD, sight unseen. Better to be an informed consumer.


For years now I've been buying movies on DVD (and Blu-ray, IF they're one of my very favorites... OR, if, like "Once Upon a Time in America" and the director's cut of "Kingdom of Heaven," they were split over 2 discs/2 sides of the same disc in their DVD incarnation :| ) outright. I'd say maybe half the titles I own were blind buys. Seeing as I'm very picky about the movies I watch/see and wouldn't watch/see a movie if I wasn't sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'd like it, it's worked out for me fairly well. :geek:


Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:20 pm
Profile
Post Re: October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament"
You guys do know that one can only be prosecuted for "sharing" files/...not "downloading" them. I will NEVER share a movie file for another to download, that is stupid..but if I stumble upon some random file that I want to download...hmmm...i think I might like to try that.


Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:27 am
Post Re: October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament"
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
You guys do know that one can only be prosecuted for "sharing" files/...not "downloading" them. I will NEVER share a movie file for another to download, that is stupid..but if I stumble upon some random file that I want to download...hmmm...i think I might like to try that.

They can prosecute you for anything. Doesn't mean they have a solid case, but it does mean they'll either intimidate you or extort you via prohibitively expensive legal fees.

The probability of any legal action at all is very low, but don't think that it's any lower just because you don't seed the files.


Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:20 am
Post Re: October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament"
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
You guys do know that one can only be prosecuted for "sharing" files/...not "downloading" them. I will NEVER share a movie file for another to download, that is stupid..but if I stumble upon some random file that I want to download...hmmm...i think I might like to try that.


I'd be inclined to agree totally however I'm certain I've read about someone who was prosecuted for actually downloading. I'll try and find something about it and get back to this with it.

It stands to reason that the 'sharer' is far more at fault however (at least in the UK anyway) you can be culpable, even if you have been duped, if you are paying for goods using forged money or using illicit bank accounts etc.

Question: say you were able to duplicate an object, such as a purse or a hammer, totally out of thin air (essentially what you are doing when you copy a file). As you have not really expended any resources to produce the item, except possibly the energy needed to power your duplicating machine, where does the duplicated objects' material value then stem from? And how does this affect, if at all, the value of the original, since now one object can be copied many times over without using more of the same original resources?
Then ask, does giving this copy away for no charge seem like a wrong idea? Again, considering the lack of resources needed to make it (and compare this directly to the difference between copying a cassette to another cassette and the copying a DVD to a AVI file/multiple AVI files). In addition to this, are you in fact a thief when another person has made these 'copies' freely available?

Just some musings :)


Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:39 pm
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Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:16 am
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Post Re: October 21, 2011: "The DVD Collector's Lament"
I haven't bought a "film" dvd in a couple of years. And I used to be an avid collector.

For me, I find most trailers reveal too much these days. I find myself dissuaded from seeing the feature because I feel I already have in a 2 minute summation. I like watching stories unfold. It's everything in the experience to watching a film. And they are removing that key element because they think audiences don't like "surprises". Dream House is a perfect example of giving too much away...if they can't drag me to the cinema, obviously repeat viewings go out the drain...

Second, I think the lines, while blurred over the last decade with tv, have been successfully crossed. TV series to me, have eclipsed cinema. And I can avoid most advertising and hear it through word of mouth. I never would have discovered Firefly, Mad Men, Rubicon, Breaking Bad, House, Lost, 24, American Horror Story, Dexter, Galactica, SG Universe if it weren't for recommendations. Ask a friend what show to watch you will inevitably get a "you have to watch this"...ask about a film...you get a thought experiment that can take a few minutes with an eventual "it was "ok""


Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:17 pm
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