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September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?" 
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Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Ken wrote:
Dragonbeard wrote:
Ken wrote:
Yes.


All due respect, please show your working? Nolan is probably the director I respect most in the industry today. He just 'does' good things, unlike the colossal try hard that is Danny Boyle.

Not to derail this discussion into the same territory as a half dozen other threads, but Nolan is not a terribly adroit director. He is a good idea man, which I think is what impresses people. In terms of dialogue, characterization, and visual storytelling--the staples of narrative filmmaking--his method of executing those ideas is fairly one-dimensional. Stories told in glimpses or "snatches" rather than shots and other fully-developed elements--snatch 'n' grab fimmaking.


What impresses me is that Nolan doesn't seem to feel the need to succumb to sensationalism, or to let social/contextual 'peer-pressure' influence his work (see Cameron and Boyle). In addition, he sees through the 3D 'gimmick', which is rather refreshing in comparison to Cameron's utterly creepy devotion.


Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:02 pm
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Oh and on topic, Lucas strikes me as a man is either deathly ashamed of his original work (it happens to a lot of creative minds) or he's just going with the numbers. People will buy 'Star Wars' the name, no matter where it is found.

Does this make Lucas a dick? Maybe, but a rich one.

Somebody mentioned that Lucas is probably never going to be happy with the movie. The evidence points to this rather strongly and the tragedy is that now the 'final' 6 movies have finally made their way to BluRay, just over a decade after the prequels first arrived, there's a strong chance that Lucas will probably have figured out more ways to tamper with his creation.

On the subject of BluRay, a resounding no. I own the DVD set that includes the SpecEds and the originals and that is fine. I don't care enough for the series to bother with the investment (yet). As for LOTR and Harry Potter... no question :D

As for ST; most of what made the series great also made it a joke in the mainstream. At least now the franchise has got people's attention, enough that hopefully some of the 'proper' elements (the intellectual musings and allegorical observations) could make a come back and be seen by the 'new' audience (there will be an audience).


Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:12 pm
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Weird, all of a sudden, the latest ST movie is playing tonight at my local theater in fake IMAX. I may go....


Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:12 am
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Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Dragonbeard wrote:

Somebody mentioned that Lucas is probably never going to be happy with the movie. The evidence points to this rather strongly and the tragedy is that now the 'final' 6 movies have finally made their way to BluRay, just over a decade after the prequels first arrived, there's a strong chance that Lucas will probably have figured out more ways to tamper with his creation.


Given Lucas' deep dissatisfaction with STAR WARS and his penchant for tinkering, I'm wondering why he doesn't simply remake the movie. Keep all the original human performances and use computers to rework the sets, the battles, and everything else. He can even tinker with some of the performances. The original stars are all friendly with him and would lend their voices if he needed some new dubbing.

I'd be all for something like that. If nothing else, it would be fascinating to see what George's true vision of SW is. And that would be a far better use of his time, energy, and money than transforming the six movies into 3-D. My dislike for the format is such that I won't see them like that.


Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:08 pm
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Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
James Berardinelli wrote:
Dragonbeard wrote:

Somebody mentioned that Lucas is probably never going to be happy with the movie. The evidence points to this rather strongly and the tragedy is that now the 'final' 6 movies have finally made their way to BluRay, just over a decade after the prequels first arrived, there's a strong chance that Lucas will probably have figured out more ways to tamper with his creation.


Given Lucas' deep dissatisfaction with STAR WARS and his penchant for tinkering, I'm wondering why he doesn't simply remake the movie. Keep all the original human performances and use computers to rework the sets, the battles, and everything else. He can even tinker with some of the performances. The original stars are all friendly with him and would lend their voices if he needed some new dubbing.

I'd be all for something like that. If nothing else, it would be fascinating to see what George's true vision of SW is. And that would be a far better use of his time, energy, and money than transforming the six movies into 3-D. My dislike for the format is such that I won't see them like that.


Yeah, it definitely would be a much better idea, especially considering how fake and out-of-place some of his changes look. If he remade the movies, at least almost everything would look consistent.

Funnily enough I hate 3D too, but I'll definitely be seeing those releases - maybe due to morbid curiosity, maybe because I'm one of the last Star Wars fans who still trusts Lucas at least a little bit. (Who knows, maybe the work done of these 3D version won't be too bad.)


Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:57 pm
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Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
The sad thing is that Lucas has ruined Star Wars for everyone, even people who don't mind the changes he's made, because it's now impossible to watch the films without thinking about the controversy. Even if you love the idea of Greedo shooting first, can you even watch that scene now without getting pulled right out of the experience?

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Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:13 pm
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Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Jory wrote:
The sad thing is that Lucas has ruined Star Wars for everyone, even people who don't mind the changes he's made, because it's now impossible to watch the films without thinking about the controversy. Even if you love the idea of Greedo shooting first, can you even watch that scene now without getting pulled right out of the experience?


There's some truth in that. I was re-watching SW the other day (to see how it looked in HD) and I was studying the scene rather than going with it. Same thing for the scene with Han and Jabba.


Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:17 pm
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Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
James Berardinelli wrote:
Jory wrote:
The sad thing is that Lucas has ruined Star Wars for everyone, even people who don't mind the changes he's made, because it's now impossible to watch the films without thinking about the controversy. Even if you love the idea of Greedo shooting first, can you even watch that scene now without getting pulled right out of the experience?


There's some truth in that. I was re-watching SW the other day (to see how it looked in HD) and I was studying the scene rather than going with it. Same thing for the scene with Han and Jabba.


It's somewhat hard to watch the revised versions of the "Star Wars" films because the modern CGI changes don't blend in perfectly with film footage shot over 30 years ago. Lucas wasn't subtle with his CGI use.


Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:32 pm
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Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
ck100 wrote:
It's somewhat hard to watch the revised versions of the "Star Wars" films because the modern CGI changes don't blend in perfectly with film footage shot over 30 years ago. Lucas wasn't subtle with his CGI use.


I wouldn't like the changes any better if the CGI was perfect and seamlessly blended into the footage. They're simply bad on a basic conceptual level. Greedo shooting first ruins Han's characterization. Han meeting Jabba at the Falcon spoils the Falcon's big reveal and the dialogue is just a redundant repetition of the dialogue between Han and Greedo. The stupid little robots added to the Mos Eisley space port are just pointless crap cluttering up the screen. And so on and so forth. For every change that actually has a purpose, like the improved effect of the Falcon taking off to escape the storm troopers, there are 15 that are just Lucas dicking around, not because he should but because he can, not caring a bit about how this change or that will impact the scene.

Edit: By the way, would the "Jedi Rocks" scene in Return of the Jedi be any less painful if the CGI was good?

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Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:12 pm
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Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Jory wrote:
ck100 wrote:
It's somewhat hard to watch the revised versions of the "Star Wars" films because the modern CGI changes don't blend in perfectly with film footage shot over 30 years ago. Lucas wasn't subtle with his CGI use.


I wouldn't like the changes any better if the CGI was perfect and seamlessly blended into the footage. They're simply bad on a basic conceptual level. Greedo shooting first ruins Han's characterization. Han meeting Jabba at the Falcon spoils the Falcon's big reveal and the dialogue is just a redundant repetition of the dialogue between Han and Greedo. The stupid little robots added to the Mos Eisley space port are just pointless crap cluttering up the screen. And so on and so forth. For every change that actually has a purpose, like the improved effect of the Falcon taking off to escape the storm troopers, there are 15 that are just Lucas dicking around, not because he should but because he can, not caring a bit about how this change or that will impact the scene.

Edit: By the way, would the "Jedi Rocks" scene in Return of the Jedi be any less painful if the CGI was good?


Don't forget about the CGI changes to the blu-rays. That CGI rock that covers R2-D2, Sebulba being added to Jabba's Palace, etc. I'd love to hear Lucas explain these gratuitous CGI changes. The only one change that surprisingly works is the CGI Yoda in "Phantom Menace". But considering that film is mostly digital the CGI Yoda fits in here.


Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:32 pm
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Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
George Lucas was pretty far off set when they were making Empire Strikes Back. That is way more Kershners movie. He occasionally stumbled around to check progress but stayed out of the way of Kershner. Kershner would not take the job unless he was given free reign to direct as he saw fit.

A lot of the goodness of earlier stuff has to be credited to Marcia Lucas who edited these films originally.

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/marcialucas.html


Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:12 pm
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Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Jory wrote:
ck100 wrote:

I wouldn't like the changes any better if the CGI was perfect and seamlessly blended into the footage. They're simply bad on a basic conceptual level. Greedo shooting first ruins Han's characterization. Han meeting Jabba at the Falcon spoils the Falcon's big reveal and the dialogue is just a redundant repetition of the dialogue between Han and Greedo. The stupid little robots added to the Mos Eisley space port are just pointless crap cluttering up the screen. And so on and so forth. For every change that actually has a purpose, like the improved effect of the Falcon taking off to escape the storm troopers, there are 15 that are just Lucas dicking around, not because he should but because he can, not caring a bit about how this change or that will impact the scene.

Edit: By the way, would the "Jedi Rocks" scene in Return of the Jedi be any less painful if the CGI was good?


Don't forget about the CGI changes to the blu-rays. That CGI rock that covers R2-D2, Sebulba being added to Jabba's Palace, etc. I'd love to hear Lucas explain these gratuitous CGI changes. The only one change that surprisingly works is the CGI Yoda in "Phantom Menace". But considering that film is mostly digital the CGI Yoda fits in here.


I didn't even notice those changes when I watched the Blu-rays... but are they THAT big of a deal? Granted, the R2 change does create a continuity error... but the addition of the Dug who may or may not be Sebulba in Jabba's palace, if you didn't know it wasn't there to begin with, would you really care either way? As I keep harping, if today's technology was available back when the OT was originally made, we wouldn't be having these endless debates. And the CG Yoda in "Menace" was definitely needed because the puppet they originally used didn't look like Yoda but like some bad impersonator. :?


Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:59 pm
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Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
hmcindie wrote:
George Lucas was pretty far off set when they were making Empire Strikes Back. That is way more Kershners movie. He occasionally stumbled around to check progress but stayed out of the way of Kershner. Kershner would not take the job unless he was given free reign to direct as he saw fit.

A lot of the goodness of earlier stuff has to be credited to Marcia Lucas who edited these films originally.

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/marcialucas.html

Kershner had a great rapport with the actors, but he had no experience with effects-heavy productions. The more tech-oriented direction is pretty much Lucas's deal.

H.I. McDonough wrote:
I didn't even notice those changes when I watched the Blu-rays... but are they THAT big of a deal? Granted, the R2 change does create a continuity error... but the addition of the Dug who may or may not be Sebulba in Jabba's palace, if you didn't know it wasn't there to begin with, would you really care either way? As I keep harping, if today's technology was available back when the OT was originally made, we wouldn't be having these endless debates. And the CG Yoda in "Menace" was definitely needed because the puppet they originally used didn't look like Yoda but like some bad impersonator. :?

If you saw the movies enough times prior to the CGI fuckery, the alterations are pretty jarring.


Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:11 am
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
I've got a niece who got into Star Wars a few years back and asked "Why does Yoda look so weird" after seeing the originals. Apparently, George Lucas is on the same page. Let's hope Scorsese doesn't start asking why Travis Bickle's cab looks so weird.


Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:23 am
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Mercifully, Scorsese is one of the loudest voices in favor of preserving cinema's history.

This isn't really the place for it, but since you brought him up (and since I don't feel like making a brand new thread), I enjoyed this article by the very excellent critic Matt Zoller-Seitz.

Martin Scorsese's greatest movies

My favorite quote from the whole thing, regarding Raging Bull: "This is easily one of the harshest filmic portraits of a famous person who wasn’t a dictator or a serial killer."


Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:27 am
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Ken wrote:
Mercifully, Scorsese is one of the loudest voices in favor of preserving cinema's history.


Even though he made a movie in 3D?


Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:00 pm
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Dragonbeard wrote:
Even though he made a movie in 3D?
I'm not sure I understand the question.


Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:44 pm
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Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
H.I. McDonough wrote:
I didn't even notice those changes when I watched the Blu-rays... but are they THAT big of a deal? Granted, the R2 change does create a continuity error... but the addition of the Dug who may or may not be Sebulba in Jabba's palace, if you didn't know it wasn't there to begin with, would you really care either way?


It's funny how people always defend Lucas's tinkering by citing the least worst examples. No, adding a CGI rock in front of R2D2 isn't a huge deal, even though it creates a continuity error. And no, adding a minor CGI character to the background of Jabba's palace isn't a huge deal either. But the new "NOOOOOO!!!" added to the scene of Vader killing the Emperor is one of those god fucking awful changes that simply halt the movie to a dead stop, making you cringe and wonder what the hell Lucas was thinking.

Same for the pre-Blu-ray changes. I can deal with little CGI rats running around Mos Eisley, but the scene of Jabba meeting Han was just poorly put together and should have remained on the cutting room floor where it belonged, and the "Jedi Rocks" scene in Return of the Jedi is seriously one of the worst things I've ever seen in any movie.

But NONE of this would bother me if Lucas would just make the original cuts available in something other than poor non-anamorphic DVD transfers of old Laserdisc prints. We can argue all day about how the changes do or don't ruin the movies, about how they are or aren't justified, about how it is or isn't Lucas's legal and/or moral right to do it, but it's just a load of horseshit either way that he refuses to preserve the original cuts.

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Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:45 pm
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Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Ken wrote:
Dragonbeard wrote:
Even though he made a movie in 3D?
I'm not sure I understand the question.


I personally don't think any director who cares about cinematic history would so gladly use such a gimmick. Unless it's a one off to gain the experience, in which case fair enough.


Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:38 am
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Dragonbeard wrote:
Ken wrote:
Dragonbeard wrote:
Even though he made a movie in 3D?
I'm not sure I understand the question.


I personally don't think any director who cares about cinematic history would so gladly use such a gimmick. Unless it's a one off to gain the experience, in which case fair enough.


I think you should probably see the film before making a statement like this. Just because Scorcese made a film in 3d doesn't mean that he's somehow disrespecting the history of film. Apart from the 3d in Hugo being arguably the best-implemented and well-reasoned of any film since the revival of the format, the film itself actually ends up being all about film preservation and the importance of cinema history.

To me, Scorcese's use of 3d in Hugo is a legitimate attempt to bring some artistic validity to a format that is widely scoffed at in the critical community. Bringing it back on topic, George Lucas, on the other hand, appears to see it purely as another means to cash in on the Star Wars name. I doubt I'll have even a passing interest in revisiting the films in 3d, especially the prequel episodes. Truthfully, I haven't given any money to Lucas in a long time, and I don't plan to anytime soon. The only exception would be if or when the original, unedited films are released again. Something tells me though that once those become available, not many people will have much interest in the revised versions or other releases, which might explain why Lucas doesn't seem willing to put them back on the market.


Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:30 am
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