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The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners! 
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
I'm not a huge fan of The Departed myself, but come on. It's a strong movie by any reasonable standard.

Note: "It's not a masterpiece" and "there are other Best Picture nominees that are just as good or better" do not constitute reasonable standards. Anyone who sets the bar there is going to be cut off from an awful lot of movies that are well worth the time.

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Sat May 10, 2014 12:32 am
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
Ken wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of The Departed myself, but come on. It's a strong movie by any reasonable standard.

Note: "It's not a masterpiece" and "there are other Best Picture nominees that are just as good or better" do not constitute reasonable standards. Anyone who sets the bar there is going to be cut off from an awful lot of movies that are well worth the time.

I thought Departed was merely decent but by any "reasonable standard"(whether it constitutes one is merely an opinion, not a fact, and I don't really see how that's going to cut me of from other films :? ) I simply didn't think it was a very strong film, for me it just felt like an inferior remake. Maybe best picture noms aren't the best comparison, but it's certainly reasonable to compare it to the original film Infernal Affairs, which for me was just so much better in almost every aspect.


Sat May 10, 2014 1:40 am
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
Ken wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of The Departed myself, but come on. It's a strong movie by any reasonable standard.

Note: "It's not a masterpiece" and "there are other Best Picture nominees that are just as good or better" do not constitute reasonable standards. Anyone who sets the bar there is going to be cut off from an awful lot of movies that are well worth the time.


Well, not necessarily. I think Casino Royale is ultimately a better movie than Departed, but I would NEVER expect Royale to win best picture. That's just crazy. I never think in terms of Academy awards anyway though. Having said that, Departed is when I first started to take Dicaprio a little more seriously as an actor. Not sure if I should have, but I really don't like Scorsese's habit of homogenizing his shots. He shoots everything with pretty much the same lens, same depth of field, and leaves it to Schoonmaker to provide some variation. His shots are functional without having much organic beauty to them. And his 21st century movies overall lack attitude and perspective. The Departed is a professional job to be sure, but IMO not beyond professional. Despite some flamboyant camera moves, it's mostly what I would call "safety net coverage" filmmaking. Every idea is presented in a very literal way designed for maximum viewer comprehension. Scorsese is no stylist, really. Not in his last 6 films, anyway.


Sat May 10, 2014 1:45 am
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
NotHughGrant wrote:
There's a comment I can't mentally shake about Scorsese becoming a second rate Spielberg at the beginning of this century.

It's not something I believe is wholly true, but it is partly true. The Departed was the closest example to a true Scorsese work in the first decade of the millennia.

And the Wolf of Wall Street is a kind of crazy (but yes, entertaining!) fratboy flick in the vague style of Scorsese.

I remember a few people saying that this was MS back on Goodfellas form etc. I think that was the initial power of WoWS. It was extreme, unapologetic and kind of demanded a level of hyperbole to match it.

I doubt many of the same people would categorize it that highly now, even given just a few months sober reflection.


Why is it more a fratboy flick than a black comedy aimed at salespeople morons, (aged between 22 and 83 specifically :P ) who won’t get it anyway? Don't worry about trying to answer that mate.

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Tue May 13, 2014 7:57 am
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
Ken wrote:
I want to seize people by the lapels on their way out of a Scorsese movie and say "Tell me what you thought about this movie, and if you compare it to Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, or GoodFellas, even for a second, I will kill your entire family."


This. Exactly this.

And yet, even after this, the very next post goes right back into comparing Scorsese movies with other Scorsese movies. It's like a robot. Little comparison robots. I'm honestly baffled by it. It's like the only way to talk about a movie is by comparing it to other movies.

wisey wrote:
Why is it more a fratboy flick than a black comedy aimed at salespeople morons, (aged between 22 and 83 specifically :P ) who won’t get it anyway? Don't worry about trying to answer that mate.


Don't worry, he won't. He's proven he's not interested in that. He'll just insist older Scorsese movies are better than newer ones, and then when you agree, keep insisting that it's true.

"2+2=4"

"Agreed, but I'm not very interested in how the number 2 relates to the number 4. What do you think about the number 2?"

"Well, 2 is a number, and if you add 2 to it, it will equal 4. That's NOT something you want to debate me on!"


Tue May 13, 2014 10:22 am
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
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It's like the only way to talk about a movie is by comparing it to other movies.


Yeah, except for those that are actually worth talking about.

I don't know about NotHugh, but the only thing I'd insist on at this point is that Scorsese's fanbase would praise him filming a rock for three hours. If the rock were to move at any point, they might even call it a masterpiece.


Wed May 14, 2014 1:12 am
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
MGamesCook wrote:
I don't know about NotHugh, but the only thing I'd insist on at this point is that Scorsese's fanbase would praise him filming a rock for three hours. If the rock were to move at any point, they might even call it a masterpiece.

People make arguments like this because they don't want an equitable conversation to happen and are trying to bring it to a grinding halt.

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Wed May 14, 2014 2:51 am
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
Ken wrote:
MGamesCook wrote:
I don't know about NotHugh, but the only thing I'd insist on at this point is that Scorsese's fanbase would praise him filming a rock for three hours. If the rock were to move at any point, they might even call it a masterpiece.

People make arguments like this because they don't want an equitable conversation to happen and are trying to bring it to a grinding halt.


It was already at a grinding halt before I posted that.


Wed May 14, 2014 4:12 am
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
Frankly, I haven't met anyone who is in love with every movie Scorsese has ever made, nor do I ever expect to. He has lesser efforts and even occasional failures just like anyone else.

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Wed May 14, 2014 8:45 pm
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
KWRoss wrote:
Frankly, I haven't met anyone who is in love with every movie Scorsese has ever made, nor do I ever expect to. He has lesser efforts and even occasional failures just like anyone else.

Agreed, that's all I was ever saying. Some people act like Scorcese is completely immune to any form of criticism(not any of you guys necessarily, but some of his die-hard fans) when that's simply not true.


Wed May 14, 2014 9:30 pm
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
There are people on this planet for just about every fanbase that exists. I'm not sure what the use is in bringing up Scorsese's mindless defenders if none of them are here. It's apropos of nothing. This doesn't even occur in the superhero movie threads here, and god knows there are superhero fans who will cling to any piece of drek as long as they have a preexisting connection to the character.

Saying "There are people who will defend anything [X filmmaker] does" is dangerously close to saying, "The only reason people are defending [movie by X filmmaker] is that they'll defend anything [X filmmaker] does." I don't know what purpose this serves in an intelligent conversation, other than to stop it. It's a bit insulting to those of us who actually like the movie for other reasons besides brainless devotion.

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Wed May 14, 2014 10:09 pm
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
Nevertheless, I think it's a question that warrants asking once in a while. There's some value in being able to appreciate 90% or whatever of a single directors work and being able to analyze a director in terms of his whole career. So I don't think it's fair for you to reject comparisons between Scorsese's earlier and later works. It's just a natural part of auteurism and I find it somewhat ridiculous to suggest that such a comparison shouldn't carry weight.


Thu May 15, 2014 12:47 am
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
My problem does not lie with the comparing of one of his works with another. My problem is the compulsive devaluing of anything that doesn't hold up to the works that are universally acknowledged as basically untouchable--and it's the same two or three movies every time.

Want to make it worthwhile? Discuss Mean Streets, After Hours, Cape Fear, or any number of earlier Scorsese works where there isn't an implicit acknowledgement of a bar so high that it can't possibly be cleared.

I will readily cop to being a Scorsese fan. I don't think he walks on water and I don't ezcuse his missteps, but I also don't punish fine movies for falling short of the level of masterpiece.

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Thu May 15, 2014 1:28 am
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
Uh...okay. Mean Streets and Cape Fear, both better than Wolf of Wall Street.


Thu May 15, 2014 4:11 am
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
Mean Streets, definitely. Cape Fear, not really. But either way, that's not my point.

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Thu May 15, 2014 6:44 am
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
Ken wrote:
Mean Streets, definitely. Cape Fear, not really. But either way, that's not my point.


Well to put it another way, I'd say Cape Fear is far better than Shutter Island.

Your point, then, is simply not something I agree with. Movies that don't hold up to similar, but better, work should be devalued. In my mind, that's just the way it works. I'm surprised a good handful of times per year how some contemporary movies can more than hold their own against the older stuff, even eclipsing it. I don't think of any film as "untouchable," least of all the Scorseses, none of which are personal favorites of mine anyway. In other words, when I go to the theater I do want to see something exceptional. Exceptional enough to cast some sort of shadow over comparable movies of the past, hopefully to spin the sensations of its genre in a new, unexpected way.


Thu May 15, 2014 6:56 am
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
I haven't seen you engage in meaningful comparison of any of these movies. Pethaps you do think Mean Streets is better than Wolf and perhaps many would agree, but who gives a fuck? Is that not the least interesting, least illuminating, least insightful piece of information that one can arrive at in the comparison of two works that share something in common?

And besides that, if you think the movie is bad, isn't comparing it to something you think is good actually a poor way of explaining your opinion? You have to be able to form your argument about something based on that thing's own merits. Everything, no matter how good, sucks compared to something.

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Thu May 15, 2014 7:26 am
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
Vexer wrote:
KWRoss wrote:
Frankly, I haven't met anyone who is in love with every movie Scorsese has ever made, nor do I ever expect to. He has lesser efforts and even occasional failures just like anyone else.

Agreed, that's all I was ever saying. Some people act like Scorcese is completely immune to any form of criticism(not any of you guys necessarily, but some of his die-hard fans) when that's simply not true.


Uh...that's not really agreeing with him. He said he's never met anyone who loves everything Scorsese does and you said some people act like Scorsese is immune to criticism. That's actually the opposite of what he said.

And naturally, I agree with KWRoss. Like most people who love movies, I'm a big Scorsese fan, but that doesn't mean I think Shutter Island was 2010's best movie.

Ken wrote:
And besides that, if you think the movie is bad, isn't comparing it to something you think is good actually a poor way of explaining your opinion? You have to be able to form your argument about something based on that thing's own merits. Everything, no matter how good, sucks compared to something.


Right. This has been my exact point all along. I agree with everything Ken's been saying, but that's probably because I'm a Ken fanboy incapable of separating his good posts from his bad.


Thu May 15, 2014 8:51 am
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
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Everything, no matter how good, sucks compared to something.


Not true at all. You've never seen me say anything about Mean Streets except in response to you bringing it up. You're essentially just saying "who gives a fuck" to your own post. I think Wolf of Wall Street sucks on any terms, including its own. The editing is sloppy, the cinematography bland, the running length absurd, the dialogue painful. "When you have a boat fit for a Bond villain, you don't need..." I get it, he aspires to be evil. He wants to be even more evil than he actually is. The thing is though, they're probably not even the worst of what they are. I think Scorsese is missing the bigger picture here.

Namely that the real majority of ugliness in current society comes simply from the yuppie culture, the cold calculation of wanting "success" even though one's heart may not deeply be in it. So you have millions of people pursuing tough, competitive professions for which they don't actually have any passion, and what you're left with is empty competition. Cutting throats for no real reason. What euphoria lays at the end of that? None, it's just filth. The guys in Wolf at least seem to demonstrate passion...hell that might put them a cut above the rest. DiCaprio's mocking of Kyle Chandler may have some value, even though Chandler's character is shown to be happy-ish in his job.

You know something, roastbeef was right about one thing: the victims of penny stock sellers get what they deserve. I'm almost more disturbed by Bradley Cooper's character in American Hustle. Screwing over the people who are really the lesser of all evils just to try and get ahead himself. That sounds a little more like the current culture we live in today. Jordan Belfort is an asshole, but at least he knows it. Richie DiMaso doesn't even realize he's an asshole.

Quote:
Right. This has been my exact point all along. I agree with everything Ken's been saying, but that's probably because I'm a Ken fanboy incapable of separating his good posts from his bad.


Good one. The half-clever snark that I just can't get enough of. Point still stands though.


Thu May 15, 2014 9:11 am
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Post Re: The Fifth Annual ReelViews Academy Award Winners!
PeachyPete wrote:
Ken wrote:
I want to seize people by the lapels on their way out of a Scorsese movie and say "Tell me what you thought about this movie, and if you compare it to Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, or GoodFellas, even for a second, I will kill your entire family."


This. Exactly this.

And yet, even after this, the very next post goes right back into comparing Scorsese movies with other Scorsese movies. It's like a robot. Little comparison robots. I'm honestly baffled by it. It's like the only way to talk about a movie is by comparing it to other movies.

wisey wrote:
Why is it more a fratboy flick than a black comedy aimed at salespeople morons, (aged between 22 and 83 specifically :P ) who won’t get it anyway? Don't worry about trying to answer that mate.


Don't worry, he won't. He's proven he's not interested in that. He'll just insist older Scorsese movies are better than newer ones, and then when you agree, keep insisting that it's true.

"2+2=4"

"Agreed, but I'm not very interested in how the number 2 relates to the number 4. What do you think about the number 2?"

"Well, 2 is a number, and if you add 2 to it, it will equal 4. That's NOT something you want to debate me on!"



I do believe you're talking shit.

But snide, obnoxious remarks are your forte. Don't direct messages at me through other people

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Thu May 15, 2014 9:15 am
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