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38 L'avventura 
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Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
Honestly, I read Rob's comments before I saw this movie, so I was a little put off. It took me a few days before I got around to watching L'avventura on Netflix. I tried to be optimistic.

I mostly agree with Rob's comments though. This is a movie about rich self-absorbed Italians who are bored with life. And nothing happens. I really had to push myself to keep watching at some points. Then I got mad at Netflix, because on the DVD sleeve it says 2 hours 17 minutes, and it was still going at 2 hours 20. But the very last scene did put the whole movie together somewhat. When Sandro follows Giulia out of the hotel and starts crying because he is disgusted with himself, and she places her hand on his head in forgiveness/sympathy, they are finally emerging from their self-centered worlds. They are actually relating for the first time, despite being together for most of the movie.

But is this final moment of meaning worth the 2 hours and 20+ minutes? It's hard to say. There are some pretty scenes along the way, but overall this film is fairly empty. It gets to a point where you just become annoyed and then bored yourself. At about the 2 hour mark, you begin to wonder, "Why the hell don't these people contribute to society?" Which, I suppose, was the aim of Michelangelo Antonioni. But I have seen other movies that depict similar events and do so without annoying the viewer. The Rules of the Game comes to mind, and that is one of my favorite movies. La Dolce Vita is another, to an extent.

Final verdict? Well, I would have to say that you could spend your time better elsewhere. 4/10.


Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:49 am
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Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
Removed - James can put in a review in it's place


Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:57 am
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Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
Robert Holloway wrote:
Hi there Darthyoshi

I'm relieved at your comments as I felt like I was alone shouting at hordes of fans.

i will rewatch the movie next year to try again as I just cannot beleieve that so many respected people can be wrong.

We agree - very scary :-)

Rob


Haha, it's not that scary.

I have the other two movies of the series on my Netflix queue as well, we'll see how that goes... The next one has Marcello Mastroianni, which I'm looking forward too. Italian films just don't seem right without him.


Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:32 pm
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Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
Robert Holloway wrote:
Hi there Darthyoshi

I'm relieved at your comments as I felt like I was alone shouting at hordes of fans.

i will rewatch the movie next year to try again as I just cannot beleieve that so many respected people can be wrong.

We agree - very scary :-)

Rob


Gasp, you don't like a movie that everyone else likes. It's the apocalypse! Seriously Rob, welcome to my world. You don't see me whining about it or re-watching movies so I can pretend to like them and so I can be cool.

Sorry I can't actually talk about the movie since I haven't seen it but you gave it a fair chance. It failed to impress you. Move on.


Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:45 pm
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Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
Patrick wrote:
Robert Holloway wrote:
Hi there Darthyoshi

I'm relieved at your comments as I felt like I was alone shouting at hordes of fans.

i will rewatch the movie next year to try again as I just cannot beleieve that so many respected people can be wrong.

We agree - very scary :-)

Rob


Gasp, you don't like a movie that everyone else likes. It's the apocalypse! Seriously Rob, welcome to my world. You don't see me whining about it or re-watching movies so I can pretend to like them and so I can be cool.

Sorry I can't actually talk about the movie since I haven't seen it but you gave it a fair chance. It failed to impress you. Move on.


It's not about being cool (I hope), its about understanding. It's the same reason why this forum exists in the first place.


Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:18 am
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Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
darthyoshi wrote:
Patrick wrote:
Robert Holloway wrote:
Hi there Darthyoshi

I'm relieved at your comments as I felt like I was alone shouting at hordes of fans.

i will rewatch the movie next year to try again as I just cannot beleieve that so many respected people can be wrong.

We agree - very scary :-)

Rob


Gasp, you don't like a movie that everyone else likes. It's the apocalypse! Seriously Rob, welcome to my world. You don't see me whining about it or re-watching movies so I can pretend to like them and so I can be cool.

Sorry I can't actually talk about the movie since I haven't seen it but you gave it a fair chance. It failed to impress you. Move on.


It's not about being cool (I hope), its about understanding. It's the same reason why this forum exists in the first place.


From what I gathered from Rob's post, he understands the movie just fine. He just found it boring and unable to connect with the movie & found it boring as a result. And yes, I know some movies do get better with multiple viewings but from the looks of his complaint, the characters are still going to be shallow, boring and self-absorbed the third, fourth and so-on times.

I should stop before I really get going...sorry, wondering if something's wrong with you when you don't like a movie everyone else likes is a pet peeve of mine.


Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:29 am
Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
I love a good challenge and L'Avventura looks to be that very thing. So many films are rooted expressly in emotion and, once in a while, it's nice to seek out something that has something completely different on its mind. I found Playtime (more words on that coming soon-ish) to be more cerebral than affecting and L'Avventura appears to be a no-holds-barred philosophy, none of the comedic timing (and what timing!) to dilute Antonioni's intent.

Man, I love a good movie. A really good movie would be ideal but, even if L'Avventura is more admirable than likeable, I'm still really looking forward to it. And if it proves to be shallow I'll keep looking around for something, anything, to keep me up into the night. Death to complacency!


Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:53 am
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Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
Patrick wrote:
From what I gathered from Rob's post, he understands the movie just fine. He just found it boring and unable to connect with the movie & found it boring as a result. And yes, I know some movies do get better with multiple viewings but from the looks of his complaint, the characters are still going to be shallow, boring and self-absorbed the third, fourth and so-on times.

I should stop before I really get going...sorry, wondering if something's wrong with you when you don't like a movie everyone else likes is a pet peeve of mine.


Sorry, I meant understanding why everyone else thinks that it is so good, not understanding the meaning of the movie itself. Most of the time it's something stupid, like how it was the first movie to do x, or it was the beginning of the y movement. But I think that that is part of the cinematic journey. There have been several movies that I just didn't like along the way, but I have taken the time to find out why they are on the list. It's just a bit harder to figure that out with L'avventura.


Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:51 am
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Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
I'll contribute my thoughts here in a week so. I have a movie calendar and L'Avventura's on there at next Wednesday. I'm really wondering if I'll be like Rob and dislike it. I think I will be because I wasn't the biggest fan of Play Time. (I'm assuming the comparison majora made is legitimate.)


Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:04 pm
Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
Oh dear, Patrick's here and possibly thinks that the reason for watching and endorsing great classic's is about the acquisition of cool.

"Gasp, you don't like a movie that everyone else likes. It's the apocalypse! Seriously Rob, welcome to my world. You don't see me whining about it or re-watching movies so I can pretend to like them and so I can be cool."

I actually think that this is a very interesting discussion that is not about cool and pretending but about influence.

I have struggled with the idea that if someone showed me one of the top 100 movies and somehow i knew nothing of the director, cast or critical reputation - how would I react. Would I behave differently?

I think that anyone who believes that they are not even slightly biased by this is being a little naive.

Here's what I do before watching the film. I avoid reviews of any kind. i avoid explanations and plot summaries, even not reading the Netflix sleeve. But that said, i knew that L'Aventurra was highly rated and I've heard Mick LaSalle on his podcast repeatedly rave about it.

After I had watched the film once and formulated an opinion i'd usually watch it again with the commentary as this often lifts a lid on many aspects. In addition, i'd read reviews and dig deeper to enrich MY experience and involvement with the films.

I really do believe that films are about experiences and if you care, those experiences can be amplified by further viewing and readings.

One of the reasons I watched the top 100 was a personal journey of discovery. My belief was that if I watched 100 movies for that list versus 100 modern releases, i'd have a richer and more challenging experience.

The reality is that "MOST" of the films in the top 100 are tremendous works of art by very passionate and gifted film makers at the top of their game.

The reality is that a list containing 1825 critics and film people removes personal bias and is more reliable that one singular data point.

My reaction to L'Aventurra was one of disappointment and frustration. That said, there are some great elements to the movie and it merits a repeat viewing at some point.

....... and here is why some people are so wrong.

Great movies often require more work than modern blockbusters. I hated 2001, did not like Vertigo and was seriously underwhelmed by Citizen Kane on my first viewings. They now occupy the places at the top of my personal list. the same is true of memento by the way. i came out of the theater scratching my head.

Does liking a great movie make you cool?

Not within my friends as most have never heard of these films or the directors. they think I'm slightly odd and out of balance with my passion for japanese tales that feature old people struggling with their children. As for allegories of donkey's and religion..... the reality is that my behavior is not cool at all to them. Trust me. Telling my friend that I like Citizen kane does not impress them at all. they are more interested in this weeks new release andthe FX in a bib blockbuster. Most of my friends do not watch the Oscars and have not seen the best film.

Does it make you appear cool to the most active people on this forum?

Not really because we are like minded and interested in great movies too. I don't consider Majora, Pedro, Darthyoshi, Zeppelin,Tuco and others - cool. However they all display some of the greatest traits that I admire.

Curiosity - interested in the new and unfamiliar
Thoughtful - careful in what they say and interesting when they say it
Smart - Insightful contributors to the debates
Restrained - Not slinging mud everywhere with short 3 line posts
Risk takers - prepared to say something against conventional wisdom

So bottom line. it was great fun and a very enriching experience. But best of all was discussing the films with like minded people and reading stuff that i hadn't thought about.

Final point. if one declares that you don't like a supposedly great movie how can you be chastised for pretending to like the great films? or was that another element coming into play that I like

Logic

Rob


Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:52 pm
Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
Robert Holloway wrote:
Does liking a great movie make you cool?

Not within my friends as most have never heard of these films or the directors. they think I'm slightly odd and out of balance with my passion for japanese tales that feature old people struggling with their children. As for allegories of donkey's and religion..... the reality is that my behavior is not cool at all to them. Trust me. Telling my friend that I like Citizen kane does not impress them at all. they are more interested in this weeks new release andthe FX in a bib blockbuster. Most of my friends do not watch the Oscars and have not seen the best film.

Does it make you appear cool to the most active people on this forum?


Don't get me wrong Rob, I do admire this journey and I do admire you for making it but what I'm saying, in my blunt and idiotic way, is that at the end of the day you are still going off on a list. No matter how many people made this list, no matter what the criteria is for determining the rankings and titles for a list and no matter how objective the standards may be it is still a list made my man with subjective tastes and values. Trying to figure a list out as something other than a guide is foolish. I think that L'Avventura is up there only cause it's Michelangelo Antonioni.

But like you said in your comments, you have to care about this movie to actually try to find its secrets. From what I gathered in your comments, the lack of emotional connection and your disliking the shallow characters made it impossible for you to care. It's not a problem that re-watchings would fix even though trying it is kinda admirable in its foolishness. I mean, rarely do I re-watch movies I dislike and when I do, I acknowledge that I wasn't in the best mindset or it wasn't best conditions for me to watch it, plus that lingering feeling that there was something I might of missed.


Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:59 pm
Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
Patrick wrote:
Robert Holloway wrote:
Does liking a great movie make you cool?

Not within my friends as most have never heard of these films or the directors. they think I'm slightly odd and out of balance with my passion for japanese tales that feature old people struggling with their children. As for allegories of donkey's and religion..... the reality is that my behavior is not cool at all to them. Trust me. Telling my friend that I like Citizen kane does not impress them at all. they are more interested in this weeks new release andthe FX in a bib blockbuster. Most of my friends do not watch the Oscars and have not seen the best film.

Does it make you appear cool to the most active people on this forum?


Don't get me wrong Rob, I do admire this journey and I do admire you for making it but what I'm saying, in my blunt and idiotic way, is that at the end of the day you are still going off on a list. No matter how many people made this list, no matter what the criteria is for determining the rankings and titles for a list and no matter how objective the standards may be it is still a list made my man with subjective tastes and values. Trying to figure a list out as something other than a guide is foolish. I think that L'Avventura is up there only cause it's Michelangelo Antonioni.

But like you said in your comments, you have to care about this movie to actually try to find its secrets. From what I gathered in your comments, the lack of emotional connection and your disliking the shallow characters made it impossible for you to care. It's not a problem that re-watchings would fix even though trying it is kinda admirable in its foolishness. I mean, rarely do I re-watch movies I dislike and when I do, I acknowledge that I wasn't in the best mindset or it wasn't best conditions for me to watch it, plus that lingering feeling that there was something I might of missed.



Hi Patrick

I've said countless times that the list is no more than a guide. This list is about as objective as any thing can be. I don't want to get onto a long discussion about at what point do we evolve from the subjective to the objective. in fact talking about art is almost the definition of subjectivity.

Rewatching movies is actually very important. I did not care for 2001 when i first saw it. there was a lack of character in the main leads, confused narrative structure and a sense of pomposity that was over whelming. i guess I'm glad i rewatched that one.

In fact Blade Runner, Vertigo, Citizen Kane, Night of the Hunter and many others fall into this group.

Rob


Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:26 pm
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Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
Robert Holloway wrote:
Does liking a great movie make you cool?

Not within my friends as most have never heard of these films or the directors. they think I'm slightly odd and out of balance with my passion for japanese tales that feature old people struggling with their children. As for allegories of donkey's and religion..... the reality is that my behavior is not cool at all to them. Trust me. Telling my friend that I like Citizen kane does not impress them at all. they are more interested in this weeks new release andthe FX in a bib blockbuster. Most of my friends do not watch the Oscars and have not seen the best film.

Does it make you appear cool to the most active people on this forum?

Not really because we are like minded and interested in great movies too. I don't consider Majora, Pedro, Darthyoshi, Zeppelin,Tuco and others - cool. However they all display some of the greatest traits that I admire.


I've had this problem for years. I have always been interested in seeing the Oscar films and reading famous novels. I have a story though regarding the "cool" thing.

One day last summer, I sat down to watch TV, only to see that Dr. Zhivago was starting on TCM. So naturally, I was like "Hells yes!" and I spent the afternoon watching a great movie.

Later that week, I went swing dancing with my friends. Right there, you have to assume that I have a slightly more cultured group of friends than you would expect for high school students. Yet when I told them how proud I was for having spent my day watching Dr Zhivago, none of them had even heard of it.

I was fairly aghast, and at the time, I thought "How could you not have heard of it?" I told them it was done by David Lean, the same director who did Lawrence of Arabia. I don't think they knew what that was either.

Today, I don't expect anyone to know anything about any movie. I don't blame them for being so uninformed, but it is frustrating. My knowledge about film doesn't make me look any cooler to anyone that I know, except for adults who are just surprised that someone my age has even heard of Citizen Kane, let alone seen it and formed an opinion on it. Even at this forum, I don't feel like I have a step up on anyone else because of what I have seen and what they haven't. Here, it's more about the openness to new experiences, which is why its so easy to recommend films and novels and feel free to give your opinions without being attacked.

Patrick wrote:
I think that L'Avventura is up there only cause it's Michelangelo Antonioni.


Back to the original topic, L'avventura is what gave Michelangelo Antonioni his status. You might be able to make this argument for his later films that are on the list, but I don't think it works here.


Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:11 pm
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Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
darthyoshi wrote:

I was fairly aghast, and at the time, I thought "How could you not have heard of it?" I told them it was done by David Lean, the same director who did Lawrence of Arabia. I don't think they knew what that was either.

Today, I don't expect anyone to know anything about any movie. I don't blame them for being so uninformed, but it is frustrating. My knowledge about film doesn't make me look any cooler to anyone that I know, except for adults who are just surprised that someone my age has even heard of Citizen Kane, let alone seen it and formed an opinion on it. Even at this forum, I don't feel like I have a step up on anyone else because of what I have seen and what they haven't. Here, it's more about the openness to new experiences, which is why its so easy to recommend films and novels and feel free to give your opinions without being attacked.


So funny.

I have given up talking to anyone about anything movie related unless it's in the cinema today and in the top ten. Friends and colleagues know of my love of cinema and often ask what I thought of Transformers 2 for example. They are usually surprised when i say that i did not see it.

It will be the same with GI Joe next week.

Rob

PS - Who is David Lean?


Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:37 pm
Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
darthyoshi wrote:
Patrick wrote:
I think that L'Avventura is up there only cause it's Michelangelo Antonioni.


Back to the original topic, L'avventura is what gave Michelangelo Antonioni his status. You might be able to make this argument for his later films that are on the list, but I don't think it works here.


Actually, it does work here. There are going to be a great many people that will endlessly praise either somebody's first work or breakthrough work more so than any future works they may produce. Think about it, in a franchise what is the best movie? Either the first or breakthrough one. In the annals of John Wayne movies, Stagecoach, the breakthrough Wayne movie, is in the Top 5 greatest John Wayne movies. Above the Law, the first Steven Seagal movie, is pretty well-regarded in the annals of Steven Seagal movies(I don't know why). In music, a good 80% of people will never top their debut or breakthrough album.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not comparing anything(trust me, I know the shit-storm that'll erupt if I say a Seagal movie is comparable to any and all movies listed here) just stating something that resembles facts through some sort of empirical evidence.


Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:08 pm
Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
darthyoshi wrote:
Today, I don't expect anyone to know anything about any movie. I don't blame them for being so uninformed, but it is frustrating. My knowledge about film doesn't make me look any cooler to anyone that I know, except for adults who are just surprised that someone my age has even heard of Citizen Kane, let alone seen it and formed an opinion on it.


Out of curiosity darthyoshi, how old are you? It doesn't really matter at all, I'm just curious. I'm only 17 myself, so it's nice to hear of another strapping young person with an interest in classic film.

Also, I swear I'll post something here soon defending this movie. But not now. Instead I'm going to go watch Dead Ringers. Or maybe something else. Who knows.


Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:42 pm
Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
Zeppelin wrote:
darthyoshi wrote:
Today, I don't expect anyone to know anything about any movie. I don't blame them for being so uninformed, but it is frustrating. My knowledge about film doesn't make me look any cooler to anyone that I know, except for adults who are just surprised that someone my age has even heard of Citizen Kane, let alone seen it and formed an opinion on it.


Out of curiosity darthyoshi, how old are you? It doesn't really matter at all, I'm just curious. I'm only 17 myself, so it's nice to hear of another strapping young person with an interest in classic film.

Also, I swear I'll post something here soon defending this movie. But not now. Instead I'm going to go watch Dead Ringers. Or maybe something else. Who knows.


Hi Zeppelin,

This movie does not need defending. Just a couple of us need help understanding why it's so great

and for that we call upon you sir :-)

And trust me and I'm 51. Age does not make you smarter. In fact you trade experience for brain cells and eventually run out of the latter :-)

Rob


Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:37 am
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Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
Patrick wrote:
darthyoshi wrote:
Patrick wrote:
I think that L'Avventura is up there only cause it's Michelangelo Antonioni.


Back to the original topic, L'avventura is what gave Michelangelo Antonioni his status. You might be able to make this argument for his later films that are on the list, but I don't think it works here.


Actually, it does work here. There are going to be a great many people that will endlessly praise either somebody's first work or breakthrough work more so than any future works they may produce. Think about it, in a franchise what is the best movie? Either the first or breakthrough one. In the annals of John Wayne movies, Stagecoach, the breakthrough Wayne movie, is in the Top 5 greatest John Wayne movies. Above the Law, the first Steven Seagal movie, is pretty well-regarded in the annals of Steven Seagal movies(I don't know why). In music, a good 80% of people will never top their debut or breakthrough album.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not comparing anything(trust me, I know the shit-storm that'll erupt if I say a Seagal movie is comparable to any and all movies listed here) just stating something that resembles facts through some sort of empirical evidence.


You said that L'avventura is so high on the list because it was made by someone that was famous, and I said that L'avventura is why he was famous. I completely agree with what you said on breakthroughs and firsts, though. There are many movies on the list that I did not enjoy. I often wondered why some of them were on the list at all. I usually find out through further research that they were breakthroughs. This usually annoys me, because there is almost always another film made later that the previous film paved the way for. And it's usually better.

Zeppelin wrote:
Out of curiosity darthyoshi, how old are you? It doesn't really matter at all, I'm just curious. I'm only 17 myself, so it's nice to hear of another strapping young person with an interest in classic film.


I'm 17 too, I'll be 18 in September. I'm off to college in the Bay Area in September.

Robert Holloway wrote:
And trust me and I'm 51. Age does not make you smarter. In fact you trade experience for brain cells and eventually run out of the latter :-)


Why, thank you. It's not often that you hear someone older than you praising the merits of youth ;) .


Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:42 am
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Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
darthyoshi wrote:
Why, thank you. It's not often that you hear someone older than you praising the merits of youth ;) .


That's a sad reflection on the people of decrepitude

What they often forget is that they were once 17 too

Rob


Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:40 am
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Post Re: 38 Avventura, L' 1960
Robert Holloway wrote:
darthyoshi wrote:
Why, thank you. It's not often that you hear someone older than you praising the merits of youth ;) .


That's a sad reflection on the people of decrepitude

What they often forget is that they were once 17 too

Rob


I try to treat everyone the same regardless of age. Yet lately, parents have called this insolence. I guess I can't treat them the same way that I do my friends. Kind of sucks. And it's only been happening this summer. College will be a welcome transition.

Like I said, its nice to see someone who gets the big picture.


Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:50 am
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