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37 Night of the Hunter 
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Post Re: 37 Night of the Hunter
It's not just that she has a shotgun. It's what she does with it, which I pointed out in an earlier post. Never once did I claim that her merely having a shotgun meant anything, whatsoever. That's twisting my point.

The points were made in reference to the notion that the last act was hokey and light. I don't see an old woman, armed with a shotgun, quoting Bible scripture to children as she marches a vigil the least bit hokey. In fact, it makes me think the old braud is kind of tough. She's ready to take on whatever forces of evil she must for the sake of those children. I do not see how that can be seen as light, at all. That's dark stuff. That's the point. Not that she just has a shotgun.

I think the majority of the third act is quite in line with that tone.The exception being the very end when Gish delivers her speech. If you'll kindly remember, I pointed to this in my initial post as the only flaw I see in the film, so yes, I agree with you there.

JamesKunz wrote:
-I feel that the overwhelming critical adoration of the film stems largely from the romantic story that it was Charles Laughton's only film as a director, panned at the time, only appreciated after his death, etc and people ignore its problems


That's absolutely ridiculous. You're well within your rights to not love the film and view certain aspects as problematic. We can debate about that all day and I doubt either of us will change our mind. But, to say those who love the film do so because they've chosen to ignore the problems is asinine. If you truly respect the opinions of others and can see what they're seeing (which you claim to do), then you can't also claim they are ignoring the problems. If you accept the explanation someone gives as to why they don't view those same aspects as problems, then you can't turn around and then claim they are ignoring those problems. To me, that's a backhanded way of marginalizing an opposing viewpoint. To insinuate that someone couldn't possibly love the film based solely on how you felt about it is not only short sighted, but a tad bit insulting.


Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:41 pm
Post Re: 37 Night of the Hunter
Ignoring the comment on critical adulation being in part due to NOTH being Laughton's only directorial effort (a perspective that trespasses on the film's many truly great qualities), I really appreciate where James is coming from. It isn't plot so much as a shift from an oppressive ominous quality/tone to that of something that really feels remarkably different. As I said before, out of the nightmare and into "Our Town". As an experience, it's really weird. This doesn't mean the film is any less dark but it does mean that, once the kids are in the care of Lillian Gish, the film hits a more sure footing that was entirely absent from the first 2/3. While it fits a fairytale quality it, at least on first viewing, is jarring enough to leave some viewers dissatisfied. It's a good film that, in my opinion, fits together very uneasily.


Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:03 pm
Post Re: 37 Night of the Hunter
I'll side with James and Major here. I don't really have anything else to add, except that my big beef with the last third has mainly to do with just how small those moments make the preacher. In the first two-thirds he's easily one of the most frightening characters in the whole cinema, but once Gish shows up and puts up a fight he becomes less bogeyman/omnipresent evil and more creepy-neighbor-who-looks-at-your-kids-funny, and that's no way to treat Mitchum's performance, which is so good that it deserves to devour the entire film into its disturbing, maniacal black hole of a mouth.


Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:23 pm
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Post Re: 37 Night of the Hunter
PeachyPete wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
-I feel that the overwhelming critical adoration of the film stems largely from the romantic story that it was Charles Laughton's only film as a director, panned at the time, only appreciated after his death, etc and people ignore its problems




That's absolutely ridiculous. You're well within your rights to not love the film and view certain aspects as problematic. We can debate about that all day and I doubt either of us will change our mind. But, to say those who love the film do so because they've chosen to ignore the problems is asinine. If you truly respect the opinions of others and can see what they're seeing (which you claim to do), then you can't also claim they are ignoring the problems. If you accept the explanation someone gives as to why they don't view those same aspects as problems, then you can't turn around and then claim they are ignoring those problems. To me, that's a backhanded way of marginalizing an opposing viewpoint. To insinuate that someone couldn't possibly love the film based solely on how you felt about it is not only short sighted, but a tad bit insulting.


Well I better clarify my statement because it's alienating not only my opponents but my supporters. I never said that you weren't entitled to your own opinion. Note that I said "overwhelming critical appreciation," which doesn't include you unless I am much mistaken. And I really don't think I'm out on that much of a limb here. Citizen Kane's reputation was almost certainly aided by the tragic fall of Orson Welles, and I don't know why it's out of the question that Night of the Hunter got a boost from a similar story. Many speculate that Shakespeare in Love was aided by the fact that its cute, whimsical take on theater appealed to Oscar voters. That's not to say you're not allowed to think it's great, or that you're incapable of coming to a decision on your own, but there is often a reason why something is beloved beyond its artistic merit.

We were having a fine debate. If I gave the impression that I was undercutting your entire argument with a flippant statement about Charles Laughton, I apologize.

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Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:25 pm
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Post Re: 37 Night of the Hunter
JamesKunz wrote:
PeachyPete wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
-I feel that the overwhelming critical adoration of the film stems largely from the romantic story that it was Charles Laughton's only film as a director, panned at the time, only appreciated after his death, etc and people ignore its problems




That's absolutely ridiculous. You're well within your rights to not love the film and view certain aspects as problematic. We can debate about that all day and I doubt either of us will change our mind. But, to say those who love the film do so because they've chosen to ignore the problems is asinine. If you truly respect the opinions of others and can see what they're seeing (which you claim to do), then you can't also claim they are ignoring the problems. If you accept the explanation someone gives as to why they don't view those same aspects as problems, then you can't turn around and then claim they are ignoring those problems. To me, that's a backhanded way of marginalizing an opposing viewpoint. To insinuate that someone couldn't possibly love the film based solely on how you felt about it is not only short sighted, but a tad bit insulting.


Well I better clarify my statement because it's alienating not only my opponents but my supporters. I never said that you weren't entitled to your own opinion. Note that I said "overwhelming critical appreciation," which doesn't include you unless I am much mistaken. And I really don't think I'm out on that much of a limb here. Citizen Kane's reputation was almost certainly aided by the tragic fall of Orson Welles, and I don't know why it's out of the question that Night of the Hunter got a boost from a similar story. Many speculate that Shakespeare in Love was aided by the fact that its cute, whimsical take on theater appealed to Oscar voters. That's not to say you're not allowed to think it's great, or that you're incapable of coming to a decision on your own, but there is often a reason why something is beloved beyond its artistic merit.

We were having a fine debate. If I gave the impression that I was undercutting your entire argument with a flippant statement about Charles Laughton, I apologize.


My 'trespassing' comment, and this is for the record, was made out of concern that the particulars of the film could be assigned to good will. But, that being said, they often can. As the movie currently on the table is mostly good I wanted to avoid the association of the movies many great qualities with the aforementioned good will.

Or: the only thing that alienates me is being called a troll unfairly. Only one poster did this. His name was munroe. He seemed to be in need of a sound cockpunching but left before I could tell him that directly. He will be missed.


Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:11 pm
Post Re: 37 Night of the Hunter
JamesKunz wrote:
Well I better clarify my statement because it's alienating not only my opponents but my supporters. I never said that you weren't entitled to your own opinion. Note that I said "overwhelming critical appreciation," which doesn't include you unless I am much mistaken. And I really don't think I'm out on that much of a limb here. Citizen Kane's reputation was almost certainly aided by the tragic fall of Orson Welles, and I don't know why it's out of the question that Night of the Hunter got a boost from a similar story. Many speculate that Shakespeare in Love was aided by the fact that its cute, whimsical take on theater appealed to Oscar voters. That's not to say you're not allowed to think it's great, or that you're incapable of coming to a decision on your own, but there is often a reason why something is beloved beyond its artistic merit.

We were having a fine debate. If I gave the impression that I was undercutting your entire argument with a flippant statement about Charles Laughton, I apologize.


No worries, and as I said via PM, I apologize for my dickheaded post. I guess bumping heads from time to time is inevitable when knowledgable, opinionated people disagree. That doesn't give anyone free reign to being an a-hole, but it hopefully gives some perspective as to why disagreements can get heated.

I took the statement as you saying since you saw the film as not great, the critics overvalued the film, and I blindly accepted the critical praise and wanted to see greatness that isn't there. Which, I think understandably, can be seen as a marginalization of my opinion. Now, since you've clarified my misinterpretation to films in general, and NOTH specifically, receiving boosts critically for reasons other than the film's quality, I have no qualms with your statement. That surely isn't why I love the film, but to argue that such things don't happen would be a bit naive.

Anyway, I think this debate has run it's course. You guys have problems with the third act for your reasons, and I don't for mine. Movies are entirely too subjective to say who is "right" and who is "wrong", so as long as someone can provide solid reasoning as to how they came to their opinion, that opinion should be respected. I feel all involved have done that.

majoraphasia wrote:
Or: the only thing that alienates me is being called a troll unfairly. Only one poster did this. His name was munroe. He seemed to be in need of a sound cockpunching but left before I could tell him that directly. He will be missed.


Send him a PM months after the fact telling him off. Use quotes and everything. He'd think you belong in a mental hospital, but his confusion would be worth it. It would also be interesting to see how he responded, if at all.


Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:20 am
Post Re: 37 Night of the Hunter
Criterion just put this in their most recent newsletter:

Image

This could be one of a few things. It's either Do the Right Thing, Watership Down, or Night of the Hunter. The general consensus on the Criterion Collection forum, though, is that it's Night of the Hunter. So hooray! Night of the Hunter Blu-ray!


Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:40 am
Post Re: 37 Night of the Hunter
Pedro wrote:
Criterion just put this in their most recent newsletter:

Image

This could be one of a few things. It's either Do the Right Thing, Watership Down, or Night of the Hunter. The general consensus on the Criterion Collection forum, though, is that it's Night of the Hunter. So hooray! Night of the Hunter Blu-ray!


Good news for the fans of that movie. That more or less excludes me. I'd be willing to give it another go, however, if I could see that Blu Ray copy. Party at Pedro's house?

http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23

I check that once in a while to see what's the what in the world of Criterion. The list of "ANNOUNCED CERTAINTIES" changes so often (von Trier's Antichrist having been dropped off of every list they have) that I'm not convinced this "Cinephrenic" fellow knows what he's talking about. We'll see about Y Tu Mama Tambien and Christopher Nolan's Following.

EDIT: It looks like Amazon has a pre-order page for Criterion's Antichrist release. It looks as if I typed that above paragraph too soon.


Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:55 am
Post Re: 37 Night of the Hunter
majoraphasia wrote:
I check that once in a while to see what's the what in the world of Criterion. The list of "ANNOUNCED CERTAINTIES" changes so often (von Trier's Antichrist having been dropped off of every list they have) that I'm not convinced this "Cinephrenic" fellow knows what he's talking about. We'll see about Y Tu Mama Tambien and Christopher Nolan's Following.

EDIT: It looks like Amazon has a pre-order page for Criterion's Antichrist release. It looks as if I typed that above paragraph too soon.


I've been waiting for an Antichrist release, rather have a hard copy then just the Instant Stream on Netflix.


Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:19 am
Post Re: 37 Night of the Hunter
JJoshay wrote:
majoraphasia wrote:
I check that once in a while to see what's the what in the world of Criterion. The list of "ANNOUNCED CERTAINTIES" changes so often (von Trier's Antichrist having been dropped off of every list they have) that I'm not convinced this "Cinephrenic" fellow knows what he's talking about. We'll see about Y Tu Mama Tambien and Christopher Nolan's Following.

EDIT: It looks like Amazon has a pre-order page for Criterion's Antichrist release. It looks as if I typed that above paragraph too soon.


I've been waiting for an Antichrist release, rather have a hard copy then just the Instant Stream on Netflix.


I'll believe in the Criterion release when I see it on shelves. Amazon's dedicated page does nothing to allay my suspicions that it's really just a rumor.


Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:30 pm
Post Re: 37 Night of the Hunter
majoraphasia wrote:
JJoshay wrote:
majoraphasia wrote:
I check that once in a while to see what's the what in the world of Criterion. The list of "ANNOUNCED CERTAINTIES" changes so often (von Trier's Antichrist having been dropped off of every list they have) that I'm not convinced this "Cinephrenic" fellow knows what he's talking about. We'll see about Y Tu Mama Tambien and Christopher Nolan's Following.

EDIT: It looks like Amazon has a pre-order page for Criterion's Antichrist release. It looks as if I typed that above paragraph too soon.


I've been waiting for an Antichrist release, rather have a hard copy then just the Instant Stream on Netflix.


I'll believe in the Criterion release when I see it on shelves. Amazon's dedicated page does nothing to allay my suspicions that it's really just a rumor.

No, it's official.


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Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:06 am
Post Re: 37 Night of the Hunter
Night of the Hunter

Blu Ray Double disc at $49.99 sits on my shelf - in my dreams!
I can only hope, knowing that it will be less than that price :-)

Every time I see this film it shoots up my top xx list of all time

Rob


Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:39 am
Post There is a god
http://www.criterion.com/films/27525-th ... the-hunter

Just announced for later this year. 86 days and counting!

Rob


Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:38 pm
Post Re: 37 Night of the Hunter
majoraphasia wrote:
JJoshay wrote:
I've been waiting for an Antichrist release, rather have a hard copy then just the Instant Stream on Netflix.


I'll believe in the Criterion release when I see it on shelves. Amazon's dedicated page does nothing to allay my suspicions that it's really just a rumor.


http://www.criterion.com/films/27524-antichrist

9 November 2010. I'll be buying a copy. They even have the cover.

Image

1080p ball crushing, vagina snipping action? I'm there.


Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:28 pm
Post Re: 37 Night of the Hunter
majoraphasia wrote:
Good news for the fans of that movie. That more or less excludes me. I'd be willing to give it another go, however, if I could see that Blu Ray copy. Party at Pedro's house?

I just noticed you said, "Party at Pedro's." As it turns out, that's a running joke within my close circle of friends. I once got together a bunch of people for a pancake gathering and afterwards, this one asshole said, "PARTY AT PEDRO'S!!!" And everyone agreed! At that point in high school, I very rarely ever had one person over, let alone eight.

Anyway, I saw The Night of the Hunter today. I can't promise I'll write any more than this post, but let it be known that I very much liked the film. I liked it when it was incredibly effective and I liked it when there were elements that stood out as fucking strange - and there are a lot of these moments. Tonally, the film's kind of all over the place. It jumps from creepy to lighthearted to creepy to funny to creepy to really funny to what the fuck was that to slightly maudlin. I'm convinced its intentional, and I don't think it'd be a stretch to find some meaning. ALSO, the score has a fucking mind of its own.

I can't give it a rating at this moment in time. The cinematography features some of the most beautifully composed shots I've ever seen, even when the context is incredibly disturbing. The theme of good versus evil is covered in a lot of different ways, and while I don't understand some of the ways the film chooses to explore that theme, I never felt lost or even confused. Baffled, maybe.

The Night of the Hunter is masterful, that much is for sure.


Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:55 am
Post Re: 37 Night of the Hunter
Pedro wrote:
majoraphasia wrote:
Good news for the fans of that movie. That more or less excludes me. I'd be willing to give it another go, however, if I could see that Blu Ray copy. Party at Pedro's house?

I just noticed you said, "Party at Pedro's." As it turns out, that's a running joke within my close circle of friends. I once got together a bunch of people for a pancake gathering and afterwards, this one asshole said, "PARTY AT PEDRO'S!!!" And everyone agreed! At that point in high school, I very rarely ever had one person over, let alone eight.

Anyway, I saw The Night of the Hunter today. I can't promise I'll write any more than this post, but let it be known that I very much liked the film. I liked it when it was incredibly effective and I liked it when there were elements that stood out as fucking strange - and there are a lot of these moments. Tonally, the film's kind of all over the place. It jumps from creepy to lighthearted to creepy to funny to creepy to really funny to what the fuck was that to slightly maudlin. I'm convinced its intentional, and I don't think it'd be a stretch to find some meaning. ALSO, the score has a fucking mind of its own.

I can't give it a rating at this moment in time. The cinematography features some of the most beautifully composed shots I've ever seen, even when the context is incredibly disturbing. The theme of good versus evil is covered in a lot of different ways, and while I don't understand some of the ways the film chooses to explore that theme, I never felt lost or even confused. Baffled, maybe.

The Night of the Hunter is masterful, that much is for sure.


YES! Welcome to the club. Or the party. Which is apparently at your place.

I'm still convinced the film is first and foremost an indictment of small town American values. Thematic concerns aside, I could look at individual shots from this movie all day long. It's ridiculously beautiful.


Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:33 am
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