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The most overrated movie of all time... 
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Post Re: The most overrated movie of all time...
Tuco wrote:
Trevor wrote:
Tuco, I think you're forgetting this is a message board. It's almost nothing but the exchange of opinions. Posts with exclamatory sentences are to be expected. In fact, I would go so far as to say that most of us are conditioned to that fact, and as a result the more audacious opinions come across as somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Or rather, the zeal with which they are delivered comes across that way.

Of course we strive for thoughtful discussion here (to a greater degree than many forums) and you may have a good point, but there's really no need to lecture other members on how to write. If you do wish to do so, use a private message next time. You seem very knowledgeable about the English language, but not well-versed in how your tone comes across (somewhat condescending).


I'm not forgetting that this is a message board. I enjoy the back and forth of opinions, by and large, and there are several folks here with whom I enjoy some variation of sparring, discussion, or just plain learning. There are some plenty smart people here, and a fair number of people who have already forgotten more about film (to say nothing of art and culture) than I will ever know.

For the record, I intended to be ironic and condescending in my detailed 'English lesson.' I knew precisely what I was doing (or, at least, what I was trying to do; clearly, I carried off the consdescending part and missed entirely on the ironic part).

That said, I would argue quite vehemently that my post to Patrick was no more condescending than toss-offs like "Blair Witch was a piece of shit then, and it is now." In fact, I disagree that his tone comes across as tongue-in-cheek.

Now, I'm a big kid, and Patrick belittling an opinion of mine certainly won't kill me. In fact, I admit that I could just as easily have dismissed it out of hand, or responded with more obvious humor (an approach I've tried--maybe I'm not nearly the gut-buster I think I am). However, I am sometimes unsure as to the best approach when dealing with rudeness, and there are times when confronting it is called for.

In any case, I am firm in my opinion that my post (posts, actually, I've been leaning on him a little lately) to call him out on his rudeness is certainly no worse than the rudeness I was responding to. The thing is, I don't want this board to devolve into a series audacious statements of opinions expressed as fact; the problem, as I see it, is that it is starting to lean that way a bit more.

I also know that I'm not the only one who feels that way.

I believe, if you look through the majority of my posts, you will see that I take great pains to qualify my opinions as opinions. I strive to give credit to the worthy contributions of others, particularly those with whom I disagree, and I try (with an apparently dismal lack of success) to be humble in my posts.

In the end, I feel bad about this for one reason: James' reviews and his correspondence deserve better. I've been reading his reviews as long as anyone, and his writing makes me feel (in what I hope isn't a stalker-esque sort of way) that he is one of the family. I want to support his work, and I explicitly do not want to contribute to an atmosphere of tension; in that regard, I regret any addition my post made.

I'll tone it down.

All that said, you're kidding yourself if you think that posts like the one Patrick (and I mean him specifically) made to me aren't chasing some of the more thoughtful posters away, precisely because they are the stuff of nearly every other message board.


Tuco

I love arguing movies with you my friend. You've taught me much.
I agree 100% - time to die

Rob


Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:38 am
Post Re: The most overrated movie of all time...
to drift slightly, am i the only one in the world who thinks the matrix lifted quite a lot from johnny quest? i mean, just add the words mass-involuntary-involvement to quest and there you go.


Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:17 am
Post Re: The most overrated movie of all time...
Regarding Minority Report and The Matrix:

Interestingly, both sci-fi action films are overanalysed and, consequently, overpraised for their philosophy, im my opinion.

Let's face it, The Matrix feigns intellectuality and while you're still pondering questions about the nature of reality, choice or fate etc., it bypasses your brain on the other side and resolves these philosophical questions with the help of an arsenal of automatic weapons. I think the bit of dialogue, which characterises the philosophical approach of "The Matrix" best, is: "We need guns - loads of guns!" I'm not saying it's a bad or stupid film, but it's overrated in this respect.

The same applies to Minority Report to some extent. Primarily, this is a (excellent) chase movie with nice Hitchcockian overtones (does anybody else think that the score resembles Bernard Herman's music?). It also raises some interesting questions. But my impression is that the "fee will versus destiny" issues aren't the focus of the film at all - it's the chase, excellent as it is.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
And I think you can't really expect a coherent philosophical argument in a film which suffers from (at least) one major gaping plot hole: Tom Cruise's character has his eyes removed and substituted by implants in order to avoid being detected by retina scans. However, while he is on the run and tries to abduct one of the precogs, he uses his own (old) eyes to gain access to the high-security compound where they are held. I don't expect sci fi and/or action films to provide a watertight plot, but this is just extremely shoddy.


Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:20 am
Post Re: The most overrated movie of all time...
Unke wrote:
The same applies to Minority Report to some extent. Primarily, this is a (excellent) chase movie with nice Hitchcockian overtones (does anybody else think that the score resembles Bernard Herman's music?). It also raises some interesting questions. But my impression is that the "fee will versus destiny" issues aren't the focus of the film at all - it's the chase, excellent as it is.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
And I think you can't really expect a coherent philosophical argument in a film which suffers from (at least) one major gaping plot hole: Tom Cruise's character has his eyes removed and substituted by implants in order to avoid being detected by retina scans. However, while he is on the run and tries to abduct one of the precogs, he uses his own (old) eyes to gain access to the high-security compound where they are held. I don't expect sci fi and/or action films to provide a watertight plot, but this is just extremely shoddy.


It's funny you bring that up. We watch Minority Report every few months because it's one my older girls like as much as my wife and I do. We saw it again several weeks ago, and my two older daughters (age 13 and 15) got into an argument over your precise point.

My girls, who are probably typical for their age when it comes to lucid thinking about technology, got really angry with each other. The oldest argued your point precisely, and it detracted from the film for her. My younger daughter argued (I'm paraphrasing here, but not all that much) that security systems are often isolated so that one security breach doesn't turn into a full breach. Her argument, in other words, was that it would be likely that you'd have different databases for different monitoring systems, etc.

What this has done is cause me to actually love that little gaffe; I now see it as a gateway into some fun discussions about film (and technology) with my kids.

My oldest daughter, who is reading this as I type, says Minority Report isn't about freedom, nor is about 'the chase.'

She says the film is about Lexus.


Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:25 am
Post Re: The most overrated movie of all time...
Tuco wrote:
Unke wrote:
The same applies to Minority Report to some extent. Primarily, this is a (excellent) chase movie with nice Hitchcockian overtones (does anybody else think that the score resembles Bernard Herman's music?). It also raises some interesting questions. But my impression is that the "fee will versus destiny" issues aren't the focus of the film at all - it's the chase, excellent as it is.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
And I think you can't really expect a coherent philosophical argument in a film which suffers from (at least) one major gaping plot hole: Tom Cruise's character has his eyes removed and substituted by implants in order to avoid being detected by retina scans. However, while he is on the run and tries to abduct one of the precogs, he uses his own (old) eyes to gain access to the high-security compound where they are held. I don't expect sci fi and/or action films to provide a watertight plot, but this is just extremely shoddy.


It's funny you bring that up. We watch Minority Report every few months because it's one my older girls like as much as my wife and I do. We saw it again several weeks ago, and my two older daughters (age 13 and 15) got into an argument over your precise point.

My girls, who are probably typical for their age when it comes to lucid thinking about technology, got really angry with each other. The oldest argued your point precisely, and it detracted from the film for her. My younger daughter argued (I'm paraphrasing here, but not all that much) that security systems are often isolated so that one security breach doesn't turn into a full breach. Her argument, in other words, was that it would be likely that you'd have different databases for different monitoring systems, etc.

What this has done is cause me to actually love that little gaffe; I now see it as a gateway into some fun discussions about film (and technology) with my kids.

My oldest daughter, who is reading this as I type, says Minority Report isn't about freedom, nor is about 'the chase.'

She says the film is about Lexus.

:lol:

This just goes to show that your daughter knows more about film than I do.


Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:47 am
Post Re: The most overrated movie of all time...
2001: A Space Odyssey

I get that Stanley Kubrick's trying to say something (though what it is, I couldn't be bothered to try and figure out as I do not care about the film enough to do so), but the way he chooses to say it... is just awful. The only part of the movie that actually induced some sort of a response from me was the final scene when Dave finds himself in that 17th century looking mansion and the POV keeps shifting to an older version of him. Other than that, there wasn't a single point in the movie where I went, "What is Kubrick trying to say here?" or "What does this shot mean?" I was basically sitting here, watching the film for the sake of it. I was as indifferent toward it at the end as I was at the beginning.

I still love the special effects and the sets and the cinematography in that film, tho.


Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:21 am
Post Re: The most overrated movie of all time...
The Shining Wizard wrote:
2001: A Space Odyssey

I get that Stanley Kubrick's trying to say something (though what it is, I couldn't be bothered to try and figure out as I do not care about the film enough to do so), but the way he chooses to say it... is just awful. The only part of the movie that actually induced some sort of a response from me was the final scene when Dave finds himself in that 17th century looking mansion and the POV keeps shifting to an older version of him. Other than that, there wasn't a single point in the movie where I went, "What is Kubrick trying to say here?" or "What does this shot mean?" I was basically sitting here, watching the film for the sake of it. I was as indifferent toward it at the end as I was at the beginning.

I still love the special effects and the sets and the cinematography in that film, tho.


The first time I saw 2001: A Space Odyssey, I thought it was at the same time the most boring, slow and fascinating film I'd ever seen. I think that the whole scene where Dave gets back inside the ship and turns off HAL-9000 and the machine sings "Daisy" to him is one of the greatest scenes in film history.


Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:50 am
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Post Re: The most overrated movie of all time...
Here's a few:

Titanic: The doomed love story was old when Shakespeare told it in Romeo and Juliet.

My Big Fat Greek Wedding: Dress a studio movie up in "indie" clothes and it's still a studio movie. Not a bad movie. But nothing to separate it from your run of teh mill romantic comedies. Monsoon Wedding was a lot better.

The Sixth Sense: Take that plot twist out and there isn't much left.

Gladiator: I like this one better than the previous three. But I still didn't consider it best picture material.

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Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:12 pm
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Post Re: The most overrated movie of all time...
Jeff Wilder wrote:
Here's a few:

Titanic: The doomed love story was old when Shakespeare told it in Romeo and Juliet.

My Big Fat Greek Wedding: Dress a studio movie up in "indie" clothes and it's still a studio movie. Not a bad movie. But nothing to separate it from your run of teh mill romantic comedies. Monsoon Wedding was a lot better.

The Sixth Sense: Take that plot twist out and there isn't much left.

Gladiator: I like this one better than the previous three. But I still didn't consider it best picture material.

What about Chicago? How in the hell did that pile of mediocrity win Best Picture? :roll: And what was so special about Mystic River? Not a whole lot from where i'm standing.


Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:46 pm
Post Re: The most overrated movie of all time...
Jaws Don't get me wrong, it's a very good action thriller but... one of the greatest movies of all time? Really? Did I miss something in the subtext?

Gladiator Again, not a terrible effort, and I feel that it is a very good historical epic but Best Picture of the year? Again really, out of all the films that came out that year?

Alien/Aliens Okay, again, I'm not trying to say that these are terrible movies or anything but I've read a couple of reviewers who described Alien as flawless and there are those who describe Aliens as the greatest action movie of all time. Okay, but not only do I disagree, but I would argue that there's not as precipitous drop off in quality as many people say occurs between the first two movies and Alien 3 and Alien: Ressurection . (Should I move this into the Cinematic Heresay thread? :o )

Cabaret One of the interviewee's in the The Celluloid Closet referred to this as the first movie to celebrate the gay lifestyle and Robert Ebert gave it a rave review. My overall impression therefore that this is considered a classic of some sort. However, I have to say that I'm sorry but I don't see the celebration of the gay lifestyle and I don't see what's worth raving about here. I see a muddled mess with little connection between the various elements. My biggest gripe though is that the main character is supposedly bi but all's you have to do is change a few lines of dialouge and he'd become straight (wasn't "show, don't tell" a rule back in the 70's as well?) When you take into account historical context, Sinatra's The Detective was a hell of a lot more progressive.
-Jeremy


Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:49 am
Post Re: The most overrated movie of all time...
Vexer wrote:
What about Chicago? How in the hell did that pile of mediocrity win Best Picture? :roll: And what was so special about Mystic River? Not a whole lot from where i'm standing.


Yup, the Oscars for Chicago are simply jaw dropping. More a comment on the demographic that is the Oscar voter.

Rob


Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:55 am
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Post Re: The most overrated movie of all time...
Once again I submit "GoodFellas" -- brilliant from a technical standpoint, but fairly uninvolving from a character standpoint.

... and "Saving Private Ryan" for pretty much the same reasons (along with its manipulatively sentimental ending).

"The Matrix" as well -- yes, it's still the best in the trilogy (though the sequels aren't that bad), but it's not nearly that good. I'll take the Star Wars prequel trilogy over this one any day of the week [runs away]. :ugeek:


Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:44 pm
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Post Re: The most overrated movie of all time...
Hey mine is also The Shawshank Redemption.We both are very cool.


Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:01 am
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