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"Classics" that you dislike 
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Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
2001: A Space Odyssey is on the short list as both one of my favorite movies and novels of all time. They are completely different animals, but in terms of experience, I find that one enriches the other. They're masterworks of science fiction.

The thing with the ending of 2001 (film, not book) is that it's a Rorschach test. It gives you a sequence of events that are clear, but not immediately meaningful, and challenges you, the viewer, to do the footwork. You impose your own meaning, within the context of what you're given. Telling someone else what the ending is about is like telling them how they should feel when they look at the stars at night, or when they contemplate life.

This, of course, requires much more active involvement on the part of the viewer than pretty much any other movie. And, because movies overwhelmingly tend to be a more or less passive experience, many viewers don't react well to it.

And, just to keep it on topic, On The Waterfront is typically heaped with praise, often cited as one of the first truly modern movies. It is my contention that when people praise On The Waterfront, they're really praising Marlon Brando's performance. While not as bad as the American History X situation, it's definitely a case of a strong performance shining so brightly that the deficiencies are hidden in the shadows it creates.

Midnight Cowboy kind of has the same thing going on. The strength is in the interplay between the two astounding leads, but the rest of the movie is rather hokey.


Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:48 pm
Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
Ken wrote:
2001: A Space Odyssey is on the short list as both one of my favorite movies and novels of all time. They are completely different animals, but in terms of experience, I find that one enriches the other. They're masterworks of science fiction.

The thing with the ending of 2001 (film, not book) is that it's a Rorschach test. It gives you a sequence of events that are clear, but not immediately meaningful, and challenges you, the viewer, to do the footwork. You impose your own meaning, within the context of what you're given. Telling someone else what the ending is about is like telling them how they should feel when they look at the stars at night, or when they contemplate life.

This, of course, requires much more active involvement on the part of the viewer than pretty much any other movie. And, because movies overwhelmingly tend to be a more or less passive experience, many viewers don't react well to it.

Yeah, I never liked "draw-your-own-conclusion" endings, I can understand why people like them, but they just annoy me and give me a headache.


Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:55 pm
Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
Vexer wrote:
Yeah, I never liked "draw-your-own-conclusion" endings, I can understand why people like them, but they just annoy me and give me a headache.
The funny thing is, people tend to relate to stories that are within the human scale of events. Most of what happens in 2001 is utterly beyond the human scale, but once it gets to the ending, it becomes entirely about humanity. And it's that part, not the earlier stuff, that gives people the most trouble.


Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:01 pm
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Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
Where's the fun in having the director do all the work for you? :|


Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:48 am
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Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
H.I. McDonough wrote:
Where's the fun in having the director do all the work for you? :|
Ask Oliver Stone's fans. Does Oliver Stone have fans?


Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:05 pm
Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
Ken wrote:
H.I. McDonough wrote:
Where's the fun in having the director do all the work for you? :|
Ask Oliver Stone's fans. Does Oliver Stone have fans?



Your post reminded me of a scene in The Doors, by Oliver Stone. It was the scene in the filmmaking class and after viewing Morrison's work someone shouted "You need your art SPOONFED to you man!!"


Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:09 pm
Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
Ken wrote:
H.I. McDonough wrote:
Where's the fun in having the director do all the work for you? :|
Ask Oliver Stone's fans. Does Oliver Stone have fans?

No.


Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:18 pm
Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
Pedro wrote:
Ken wrote:
H.I. McDonough wrote:
Where's the fun in having the director do all the work for you? :|
Ask Oliver Stone's fans. Does Oliver Stone have fans?

No.


You're forgetting Roger "I Eat Four Stars For Fucking Breakfast" Ebert. He loves him some Oliver Stone. And I'm sure there are a few wild-eyed conspiracy theorists that watch Oliver Stone movies in between UFO sightings and creating proof that Bush time-traveled to 1936 in order to dry hump Hitler.


Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:31 pm
Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
I would like my contribution to be both short, and sweet:


'Doctor Zhivago'. What an overrated, overlong piece of epic nothingness. If you want quality Lean, skip this film and either review his earlier near-masterworks ('Brief Encounter', 'Oliver Twist') or his two widely acknowledged masterpieces (which you should know if you frequent a film forum).


Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:41 pm
Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
Evenflow8112 wrote:
I would like my contribution to be both short, and sweet:

'Doctor Zhivago'. What an overrated, overlong piece of epic nothingness. If you want quality Lean, skip this film and either review his earlier near-masterworks ('Brief Encounter', 'Oliver Twist') or his two widely acknowledged masterpieces (which you should know if you frequent a film forum).


Did you ever notice that his latter films aren't "lean" at all. Bad jokes aside I second your Brief Encounter recommendation.


Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:25 pm
Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
Fuck Blue Velvet.

Oh, and I'm no fan of A Shot in the Dark either. If you ask me, it's a waste of Peter Sellers comic talents. Gets real old real fast.


Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:50 pm
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Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
ed_metal_head wrote:
Evenflow8112 wrote:
I would like my contribution to be both short, and sweet:

'Doctor Zhivago'. What an overrated, overlong piece of epic nothingness. If you want quality Lean, skip this film and either review his earlier near-masterworks ('Brief Encounter', 'Oliver Twist') or his two widely acknowledged masterpieces (which you should know if you frequent a film forum).


Did you ever notice that his latter films aren't "lean" at all. Bad jokes aside I second your Brief Encounter recommendation.


Yeah, "Doctor Zhivago" (as well as "Ryan's Daughter") were both pretty hollow and clearly set the stage for similar films such as "Cold Mountain" and "Atonement." "A Passage to India," however, is one of my favorite Lean film, where he actually out-Merchant Ivorys Merchant Ivory. :lol:

Quote:
Oh, and I'm no fan of A Shot in the Dark either. If you ask me, it's a waste of Peter Sellers comic talents. Gets real old real fast.


Yeah, that one is definitely a bit overpraised...even in relation to the other Clouseau sequels; I thought some of them were funnier than this one. But the original "Pink Panther" will always be the best. And I like the fact that it's more of an ensemble effort than a mere Sellers vehicle.


Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:22 pm
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Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
H.I. McDonough wrote:
Quote:
Oh, and I'm no fan of A Shot in the Dark either. If you ask me, it's a waste of Peter Sellers comic talents. Gets real old real fast.


Yeah, that one is definitely a bit overpraised...even in relation to the other Clouseau sequels; I thought some of them were funnier than this one. But the original "Pink Panther" will always be the best. And I like the fact that it's more of an ensemble effort than a mere Sellers vehicle.


The love for A Shot in the Dark is something I don't get either. It's a solid, but unspectacular sequel that is in no way as good as the original.


Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:10 pm
Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
I either hate or am indifferent toward most Stanley Kubrick films.

The only two films of his that I "enjoyed" would be Dr. Strangelove and Barry Lyndon. I liked Paths of Glory to an extent. But I will not be watching any of them again.

I loathe "City of God."

Some other films I dislike:

Alien
Children of Men
Pan's Labyrinth
Life is Beautiful
Donnie Darko

Probably some more but I can't think of any more atm.


Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:15 am
Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
Finally! Someone else that dosen't like Alien! Didn't care much for Children Of Men either, and i'm definitely not a Kubrick fan either.


Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:32 pm
Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
I guess if I were to watch it in the theater I might be scared or something, but watching it at home (even with the lights off and whatnot) I wasn't scared. In fact, I did not at all care for the film. It was shallow and hollow, and I was basically just waiting for each character to be killed off.

But: Sigourney Weaver = <3

I give it 5/10 mainly because I am indifferent toward it. I'd probably rate it a lot lower if I had ended up hating it.

Oh, also, I think Ridley Scott is overrated even though I have actually enjoyed his movies other than Alien.

P.S. Aliens was way, way better.

Some other classics I dislike: Being John Malkovich and Adaptation. I give both 5/10 too and I grade them as 'major disappointments' because they're the work of a hopeless director and a screenwriter who pretends to have a lot more talent than he actually does and whose scripts generally bite off a bit more than they can chew. Adaptation's ending is a classic example of writing one's self into a corner. Not to mention that I never actually gave a fuck about any characters - the characters are all superficial and, especially in Adaptation, the whole "movie in movie in movie" thing doesn't work, the novelty becomes too stale too soon.


Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:09 pm
Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
The Shining Wizard wrote:
I guess if I were to watch it in the theater I might be scared or something, but watching it at home (even with the lights off and whatnot) I wasn't scared. In fact, I did not at all care for the film. It was shallow and hollow, and I was basically just waiting for each character to be killed off.

But: Sigourney Weaver = <3

I give it 5/10 mainly because I am indifferent toward it. I'd probably rate it a lot lower if I had ended up hating it.

Oh, also, I think Ridley Scott is overrated even though I have actually enjoyed his movies other than Alien.

P.S. Aliens was way, way better.

Some other classics I dislike: Being John Malkovich and Adaptation. I give both 5/10 too and I grade them as 'major disappointments' because they're the work of a hopeless director and a screenwriter who pretends to have a lot more talent than he actually does and whose scripts generally bite off a bit more than they can chew. Adaptation's ending is a classic example of writing one's self into a corner. Not to mention that I never actually gave a fuck about any characters - the characters are all superficial and, especially in Adaptation, the whole "movie in movie in movie" thing doesn't work, the novelty becomes too stale too soon.


Hmmm. I'd rank Adaptation as among the finest films of the past decade due in no small part to a script that not only bites off more than it can chew but proceeds to acknowledge this in virtually every scene. It's what advances the plot. It isn't so much a weakness as it is an essential element of the story. The ending, which is very much designed to write the movie out of a corner, also doubles as a spectacular metaphor for sacrifice - whatever the movie may not have (and I think it's perfect) it still contains the greatest moment in Kaufman's career:

"I knew they were laughing at me but I didn't care."

If every movie were as great as Adaptation was at its worst I'd never stop watching movies for even a day.


Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:23 pm
Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
Just a quick drop-off before class:

'Breathless'. How can 90% of film critics be so blind? This is pretentious, snide garbage with zero entertainment value with the exception of some interesting dialogue. It's impact may be unimpeachable, but I also find its artistic merits to be severely lacking.


Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:24 pm
Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
Adaptation. is an excellent film, and a brilliant screenplay. It's doubly ineligible for this thread in that it was made less than a decade ago, which probably disqualifies any movie as a classic. I would say you need a certain amount of hindsight before you can call anything a classic.


Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:43 pm
Post Re: "Classics" that you dislike
Ken wrote:
It's doubly ineligible for this thread in that it was made less than a decade ago, which probably disqualifies any movie as a classic.


Oh OK.


Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:47 am
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