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Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces 
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Post Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
So I was on the thread where we were listing the films that each of us considers perfect and of course I submitted mine but to my dismay, I found out that I could only come up with less than 40 titles; 40 titles!!!????. Not even James himself is that selective! Anyway, so I read through some of the other posters' lists and realized that I loved many of the flicks on their four-star lists but personally I couldn't really consider them to be masterpieces. In other words, on the Bernardelli scale, these films would get an easy ***1/2 but I can't quite justify giving them ****. Anyway, so I am offering up a list (although not necessarily exhaustive) of such titles. Feel free to agree or disagree (just please don't be dicks about it if you insist on the latter option) and as always, feel free to weigh-in with your lists as well. Without further ado, and in no particular order, here goes nothing:

1. Alien
2. Terminators 1 and 2
3. Titanic
4. True Lies
5. Strange Days
6. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang
7. Lethal Weapons 1 and 2
8. The Incredibles
9. Wall-E
10. Batman Begins
11. Superman Returns - fuck off bitches
12. Before Sunrise/Sunset
13. Adventureland
14. Avatar
15. The Hurt Locker
16. Chasing Amy
17. Clerks
18. Boyz in the Hood
19. Menace II Society - still need to watch this in it's entire but based on what little I've seen of it, it deserves it's spot on this list
20. Fresh - call me crazy but I found this to be slightly better than #18 and #19
21. The Matrix
22. City of Lost Children
23. Dark City
24. The Negotiator
25. Die Hard 2 - see #11 for additional thoughts
26. Dead Again
27. Hard Candy
28. Juno
29. Babel
30. Toy Story
31. Finding Nemo
32. Up in the Air
33. Hot Fuzz - another maybe, this might go down to *** but it would still be a very strong ***
34. District 9
35. The Lives of Others
36. Casino Royale
37. Affliction
38. Mean Streets
39. Casino
40. Zwartboek (Black Book)
41. Gone Baby Gone
42. Children of Men
43. Stalag 17
44. Witness
45. Say Anything
46. Jerry Macguire
47. Almost Famous
48. All About Eve
49. Trainspotting
50. When Harry Met Sally
51. Stand by Me
52. Silence of the Lambs
53. Copycat
54. Se7en
55. Panic Room
56. Pump Up the Volume
57. The Breakfast Club
58. Bound
59. The Brothers McMullen
60. Sin City
61. Knocked Up
62. King Kong (2005 version)
63. Beauty and the Beast
64. Aladdin
65. Lion King
66. Mulan
66. Das Versprechen (The Promise)
67. Spirited Away
68. Princess Mononoke
69. The Color Purple
70. Erin Brockovich
71. The Insider
72. Out of Sight
73. The Hulk -Ang Lee's verision (see also #11 for additional thoughts)
74. Minority Report
75. Gladiator
76. Heat
77. Last of the Mohicans
78. In the Line of Fire
79. Miller's Crossing
80. Courage Under Fire
81. The War Zone
82. In the Bedroom
83. Little Children
84. Samurai X - Trust and Betrayal
85. Mystic River
86. Shawshank Redemption
87. Dead Man Walking - need to watch this again; I may end up bumping it over to my **** list
88. Ordinary People
89. To Live and Die in L.A. - call me a heretic but I found this easily superior to Friedkin's other car chase flick, The French Connection
90. Misery
91. Dolores Claiborne
92. The Ice Storm - another possible upgrade here
93. Unforgiven
94. A Perfect World
95. Cider House Rules - yet another possible upgrade - and like #92, it also features Toby Macguire, coincidence? Perhaps
96. Natural Born Killers - I could never decide on what I wanted to give this one but I'll put it here for now
97. Freeway
98. Man Bites Dog
99. Prelude to a Kiss
100. Nurse Betty
101. Sideways
102. Waking Life

There you have it. Wow, this far outdoes my four-star list. And I'll probably think of more later. Well, that's all for now folks. Toodles!


Last edited by oafolay on Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:17 pm, edited 8 times in total.



Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:38 pm
Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
Quote:
73. The Hulk -Ang Lee's verision (see also #11 for additional thoughts)



Personally, I don't think there's any need to be defensive about this choice. Though I liked Norton's (Louis Leterrier's) The Incredible Hulk, I don't think we're alone in our belief that Lee's Hulk is brilliant and satisfying on another level. If Bana could have delivered a pizza to Lou Ferrigno in Lee's film then the missing half star would be given without question.


Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:51 pm
Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
oafolay wrote:
6. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang
9. Wall-E
17. Clerks
21. The Matrix
27. Hard Candy
31. Finding Nemo
32. Up in the Air
36. Casino Royale
47. Almost Famous
60. Sin City
61. Knocked Up
62. King Kong (2005 version)

10. Batman Begins
14. Avatar
25. Die Hard 2
46. Jerry Macguire
51. Stand by Me
55. Panic Room
71. The Insider


3. Titanic
15. The Hurt Locker
29. Babel
49. Trainspotting
50. When Harry Met Sally
52. Silence of the Lambs
54. Se7en

63. Beauty and the Beast
67. Spirited Away
68. Princess Mononoke

76. Heat


How can you consider Die Hard 2 a great/nearly but not quite perfect film? It took everything the first film championed so well and recreated it in the most mediocre way possible. The films in bold and films that I have no problem giving four-star ratings, the underlined films are a different matter (Did anyone else become annoyed by just how artificial Avatar looks? This was something I really noticed when I rewatched it on Blu-Ray, all the CGI makes the world, and more specifically the creatures in it, look virtually plastic, I don't care how seamless the scene towards the end was when Naytiri came face to face with the human Jake. In Titanic and The Abyss the special effects aided Cameron's story telling magnificently, in Avatar however they overcome it, creating an experience that on the big screen seemed great but on the small screen more of Cameron's flaws show out.) Batman Begins and Panic Room were entertaining though slight, Die Hard 2 and Stand By Me are both distinctly overrated, and Jerry Maguire and The Insider were both good but not as good as they have been led on. The films I didn't turn bold or underline are films I agree are near great or extremely good.


Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:17 pm
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Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
JJoshay wrote:
How can you consider Die Hard 2 a great/nearly but not quite perfect film? It took everything the first film championed so well and recreated it in the most mediocre way possible.


Thank you Josh. Though I don't like the first film as much as you do, it's far, far, far superior to the second film, which is not only "not perfect" but an exceptionally poor piece of filmmaking. I think I'd give it ** if I were feeling generous. There are a ton of other movies on your list Oafalay that I'm shocked you would even consider near the pinnacle of excellence (The Breakfast Club? Hot Fuzz? Erin Brockovich?) but in order to not be too much of a negative nancy I'll be sure to point out that Stalag 17 is indeed short of greatness. The zany comedy and hard-bitten POW drama really doesn't mesh.

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Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:29 pm
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Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
JamesKunz wrote:
JJoshay wrote:
How can you consider Die Hard 2 a great/nearly but not quite perfect film? It took everything the first film championed so well and recreated it in the most mediocre way possible.


Thank you Josh. Though I don't like the first film as much as you do, it's far, far, far superior to the second film, which is not only "not perfect" but an exceptionally poor piece of filmmaking. I think I'd give it ** if I were feeling generous.


Thats exactly the rating I'd give it. For me thought the list of near-perfect but not quite films goes like this.

Sunshine (2007, Danny Boyle)
As had been said before, the films tone and plot take a sudden turn when the captain of the other ship shows up, I do not believe this derails Sunshine as much as have do however.

The Abyss (1989, James Cameron)
God I love this movie, and I don’t think I can put it better than Roger Ebert’s editor Jim Emerson did in his review, “This mega-production from writer/director James Cameron and producer Gale Anne Hurd (the team who made The Terminator and Aliens) boldly desires nothing less than to be the most overwhelming, ambitious, tension-filled and breathtakingly exciting action-adventure/science-fiction/love story ever. And for approximately 135 of its 140 minutes, it makes its claim spectacularly. The only let-down comes in the last five minutes before the end credits, but by then The Abyss has already blown you away several times over.” Personally, I'd place The Abyss behind Aliens and Titanic (first and second place respectively) as my favorite Cameron films.

When Harry Met Sally (1989, Rob Reiner)
I’m still arguing with myself on whether this film is four-stars or damn near. The only time I question this is from the scene where they sleep with each other to right before Harry runs through the streets to find Sally before the New Year begins. I love this movie but still question whether it’s perfect or almost.

Salo, or the 120 Days of Sodom (1975, Pier Paolo Pasolini)
I just put this on here to piss off James :)

The Royal Tenenbaums (2001, Wes Anderson)
I love this film but I don’t feel that it quite rises above the quirky Wes Anderson film it is into piercing, character drama it was aiming for, damn close but not quite.

WALL-E (2008, Andrew Stanton)
Part masterpiece, part very good but not quite four-star Pixar (this division occurs when the humans are introduced into the film).

Ponyo (2008, Hayao Miyazaki)
The film is perfect until the truncated ending, which still isn’t bad but rather sudden.


Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:52 pm
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Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
There are plenty out there, at least for me:

(1939) Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
(1940) Pinocchio
(1960) Spartacus
(1963) The Birds
(1965) Goldfinger
(1966) The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
(1966) Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
(1968) Planet of the Apes
(1970) Five Easy Pieces
(1971) McCabe and Mrs. Miller
(1974) Young Frankenstein
(1976) Rocky
(1978) Animal House
(1978) The Deer Hunter
(1979) Manhattan
(1980) Airplane
(1984) This Is Spinal Tap
(1985) Back to the Future
(1985) Witness
(1986) Ferris Bueller’s Day Off
(1986) The Mosquito Coast
(1987) Planes, Trains, and Automobiles
(1987) The Untouchables
(1988) Grave of the Fireflies
(1988) Mississippi Burning
(1989) The Abyss
(1989) My Left Foot
(1991) Terminator 2: Judgment Day
(1992) Malcolm X
(1992) My Cousin Vinny
(1993) Clean, Shaven
(1993) In the Line of Fire
(1993) Rudy
(1994) Ed Wood
(1994) The Fugitive
(1994) True Lies
(1995) Apollo 13
(1995) Babe
(1995) Before Sunrise
(1995) Rob Roy
(1996) Courage Under Fire
(1996) Shine
(1997) Gattaca
(1997) Good Will Hunting
(1997) L.A. Confidential
(1998) Happiness
(1998) Out of Sight
(1999) American Beauty
(1999) Being John Malkovich
(1999) Eyes Wide Shut
(1999) The Insider
(1999) Office Space
(2000) Almost Famous
(2000) Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
(2000) O Brother, Where Art Thou?
(2000) Traffic
(2000) Sexy Beast
(2001) A Beautiful Mind
(2001) In the Bedroom
(2002) The Bourne Identity
(2002) Far From Heaven
(2002) Signs
(2003) House of Sand and Fog
(2003) Touching the Void
(2004) The Incredibles
(2004) Mean Creek
(2004) Spider-Man 2
(2005) Batman Begins
(2005) King Kong
(2005) Sin City
(2006) Casino Royale
(2006) In the Shadow of the Moon
(2006) Little Miss Sunshine
(2006) The Proposition
(2007) The Lookout
(2007) The Mist
(2007) Sunshine
(2007) Zodiac
(2007) 3:10 To Yuma
(2008) The Class
(2008) Frost/Nixon
(2008) The Visitor
(2008) Wall-E
(2008) The Wrestler
(2009) Anvil! The Story of Anvil
(2009) Avatar
(2009) The Hurt Locker
(2009) Moon
(2009) A Serious Man
(2010) Shutter Island
(2010) Toy Story 3

From my Top 100:

(1997) The Sweet Hereafter
(1994) Hoop Dreams
(2007) Funny Games
(1995) Toy Story
(1992) Glengarry Glen Ross
(1994) Speed
(2003) Lost in Translation
(2009) Inglourious Basterds
(2003) Dogville
(2000) Memento
(1997) In the Company of Men
(1987) Raising Arizona
(2005) The Descent
(1960) Psycho
(1989) Do the Right Thing
(1972) Deliverance
(2007) Gone Baby Gone
(1999) Best in Show
(1991) JFK

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Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:59 pm
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Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
DunkinDan89 wrote:
There are plenty out there, at least for me:

(1979) Manhattan
(1997) L.A. Confidential
(1989) The Abyss
(2000) Almost Famous
(2005) King Kong
(2007) Sunshine
(2008) Wall-E
(2009) A Serious Man
(2010) Shutter Island
(1991) JFK
(1960) Psycho


(1940) Pinocchio
(1992) Glengarry Glen Ross
(2003) Lost in Translation
(2009) Inglourious Basterds
(2005) The Descent
(1972) Deliverance
(1988) Grave of the Fireflies
(1999) American Beauty
(1999) Being John Malkovich
(1999) Eyes Wide Shut
(2009) The Hurt Locker


(1987) Planes, Trains, and Automobiles
(1991) Terminator 2: Judgment Day
(1993) Rudy
(1998) Happiness


(2000) Memento
(2006) Casino Royale
(2006) Little Miss Sunshine
(2006) The Proposition
(2007) Funny Games
(2007) The Mist
(1999) The Insider
(1999) Office Space
(2009) Avatar

From my Top 100:



Am I the only one who hates, hates, Rudy? That derivative, manipulative, "oh look at Sean Astin, isn't he cute aspiring for his dreams?" Rudy? I watched that my freshman year and still can't get the bad taste out of my mouth.

As before: italics I agree are close but not perfect, bold are perfect (what's wrong with Pinocchio?), underlined and bad to meh (Rudy bad, Happiness more eh? then meh), and the ones I left alone are roughly seven's to eight's out of ten. I don't quite know how the 2007 version of Funny Games stands up to memory, I just watched the '97 original recently.


Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:50 pm
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Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
JJoshay wrote:
DunkinDan89 wrote:
There are plenty out there, at least for me:

(1979) Manhattan
(1997) L.A. Confidential
(1989) The Abyss
(2000) Almost Famous
(2005) King Kong
(2007) Sunshine
(2008) Wall-E
(2009) A Serious Man
(2010) Shutter Island
(1991) JFK
(1960) Psycho


(1940) Pinocchio
(1992) Glengarry Glen Ross
(2003) Lost in Translation
(2009) Inglourious Basterds
(2005) The Descent
(1972) Deliverance
(1988) Grave of the Fireflies
(1999) American Beauty
(1999) Being John Malkovich
(1999) Eyes Wide Shut
(2009) The Hurt Locker


(1987) Planes, Trains, and Automobiles
(1991) Terminator 2: Judgment Day
(1993) Rudy
(1998) Happiness


(2000) Memento
(2006) Casino Royale
(2006) Little Miss Sunshine
(2006) The Proposition
(2007) Funny Games
(2007) The Mist
(1999) The Insider
(1999) Office Space
(2009) Avatar

From my Top 100:



Am I the only one who hates, hates, Rudy? That derivative, manipulative, "oh look at Sean Astin, isn't he cute aspiring for his dreams?" Rudy? I watched that my freshman year and still can't get the bad taste out of my mouth.

As before: italics I agree are close but not perfect, bold are perfect (what's wrong with Pinocchio?), underlined and bad to meh (Rudy bad, Happiness more eh? then meh), and the ones I left alone are roughly seven's to eight's out of ten. I don't quite know how the 2007 version of Funny Games stands up to memory, I just watched the '97 original recently.


As manipulative as a film like Rudy is, the emotional wallop it hammers at its conclusion is undeniable. Sean Astin did what he was supposed to be, that be to convey the real-life character Rudy as lovable, hard-working, but not without his share of doubts. To me it's a great sports film.

As far as Pinocchio - great film, but the dark atmosphere is a tad overbearing at points - but that may be just me. I guess I need to see the 97' version of Funny Games since I admired the 2007 version so much.

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Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:03 pm
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Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
JJoshay wrote:
Salo, or the 120 Days of Sodom (1975, Pier Paolo Pasolini)
I just put this on here to piss off James


You son of a fucking bitch :)

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Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:08 pm
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Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
Hmmmm, looks like there is no such thing as an absolute movie-masterpiece. As I stated before: I am unable to come up with one, there's always something that could be better. Sure it would be very off topic to go into philosophy (1: what is perfection anyway? Isn't it to a large part a matter of taste? 2: let's not forget that NO movie ever made is the exact 1:1 copy of a vision of one single person, it goes through many hands and in the process it gets altered, tampered with, watered down...). 3: who says that a vision of a highly talented person will lead to a masterpiece anyway?
I have no problem naming movies which are almost masterpieces, but i do have a problem naming those who I consider inconditionally masterpieces.

O.K. here is my short list of movies that could have been masterpieces, but they aren't - and I try to pinpoint the faults.

West Side Story (the musical is as perfect as it gets regarding music and choreography, the updated Romeo and Juliet story is O.K.). Problems: 1) casting (Beymer is wrong - way too soft - for an ex late 1950s NYC street gang leader, Wood doesn't even look remotely Puerto Rican); 2) the studio settings: they look way too fake compared to the real location shooting footage.

The Deer Hunter the pacing is way off. Lack of convincing scene transitions. We know that many things are metaphors and that there are many, many hidden layers of deep meaning (all protagonists are Russian-Americans, Russia - or the then USSR helped Charlie with knowledge and hardware; the rituals (marriage, hunting, etc): what do they mean? They play "Russian" roulette: is this again a hint at the cold war and communism? Just a few fixes and I'd consider this an absolute masterpiece.

The Fugitive replace Harrison Ford (he is a whining, heavy breathing, scared to death wimp - and way overpowered in the charisma department even by supporting actors - not to mention T.L. Jones who owns the flick) by a less overrated and better actor who can deliver the stuff (say: Kurt Russell - man, he would have been perfect) and you have a masterpiece.

Casino Royale (2006) - replace Daniel Craig with an actor who has either more class or if blue-collar-ish more charisma (Sean Connery , anyone?).


Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:15 pm
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Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
Threeperf35 wrote:
Casino Royale (2006) - replace Daniel Craig with an actor who has either more class or if blue-collar-ish more charisma (Sean Connery , anyone?).


I think you're missing the point. Casino Royale shows a young, unpolished Bond. Having someone "classy" like Connery would have defeated the point.

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Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:32 pm
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Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
What's with all the hate for Die Hard 2? Die Hard is a perfect film that is one of the best movies of all time. Die Hard 2 is just slightly below that level and therefore deserves a rating of 3.5. It's simple mathematics really.


Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:15 pm
Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
JamesKunz wrote:
Threeperf35 wrote:
Casino Royale (2006) - replace Daniel Craig with an actor who has either more class or if blue-collar-ish more charisma (Sean Connery , anyone?).


I think you're missing the point. Casino Royale shows a young, unpolished Bond. Having someone "classy" like Connery would have defeated the point.


O.K. let me re-phrase it: Daniel Craig was not young (like 20-something) when he did Casino Royale and he definitely was meant to stay around for more Bond flicks, to evolve into a more polished, charismatic Bond. I don't see that potential in Daniel Craig.
I don't want to turn this into a Daniel Craig = wrong bond casting choice - thread. My opinion remains = Craig was the wrong choice. A short, middle-aged, blond, almost Estern-European looking guy as an early Bond in a re-boot? Yeah, spot-on! :?


Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:17 pm
Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
JamesKunz wrote:
JJoshay wrote:
How can you consider Die Hard 2 a great/nearly but not quite perfect film? It took everything the first film championed so well and recreated it in the most mediocre way possible.


Thank you Josh. Though I don't like the first film as much as you do, it's far, far, far superior to the second film, which is not only "not perfect" but an exceptionally poor piece of filmmaking. I think I'd give it ** if I were feeling generous. There are a ton of other movies on your list Oafalay that I'm shocked you would even consider near the pinnacle of excellence (The Breakfast Club? Hot Fuzz? Erin Brockovich?) but in order to not be too much of a negative nancy I'll be sure to point out that Stalag 17 is indeed short of greatness. The zany comedy and hard-bitten POW drama really doesn't mesh.


I guess we disagree. A LOT! Just goes to show that films can affect people differently. For me, Breakfast Club is at or near the pinnacle of teen-oriented films (easily alongside Say Anything and Pump Up the Volume, both of which are also on my little list). I felt that it addresses in a honest way many of the emotions that young people in their teens tend to feel but are afraid to articulate at the risk of facing ostracism from their peers. And it was leavened with just enough humor to keep it from being too grim and serious. Read Bernardelli's review; basically, he liked the movie for a lot of the same reasons but I liked it even more. Pump Up The Volume probably explored the same terrain better but IMHO The Breakfast Club comes very close. On the other hand, Hot Fuzz, to me, was the perfect satire of buddy action comedies and was a wildly successful genre entry at the same time. As for Erin Brockovich, check out James' review of it; that explains my position as well as anything else. Die Hard II was admittedly derivative of the first but it still came close, IMHO, to capturing the intensity and thrills of the first movie. Plus, it still featured Bruce Willis at his charismatic best. Whatever, those are my thoughts. Agree to disagree.


Last edited by oafolay on Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:27 pm
Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
DunkinDan89 wrote:
JJoshay wrote:
DunkinDan89 wrote:
(1940) Pinocchio
(1993) Rudy
(2007) Funny Games


Am I the only one who hates, hates, Rudy? That derivative, manipulative, "oh look at Sean Astin, isn't he cute aspiring for his dreams?" Rudy? I watched that my freshman year and still can't get the bad taste out of my mouth.

I don't quite know how the 2007 version of Funny Games stands up to memory, I just watched the '97 original recently.


As manipulative as a film like Rudy is, the emotional wallop it hammers at its conclusion is undeniable. Sean Astin did what he was supposed to be, that be to convey the real-life character Rudy as lovable, hard-working, but not without his share of doubts. To me it's a great sports film.

I guess I need to see the 97' version of Funny Games since I admired the 2007 version so much.


THE EMOTIONAL WALLOP IT HAMMERS (hammers being the word) AT ITS CONCLUSION IS, IS UNDENIABLE! The only reason I was happy at the end of that film was because it was over. I could have cared less about Rudy, in the movie he was an annoying little pissant, wasn't any fault of Astin or the real Rudy (who I know nothing about) but its just the way he was written. How long can we go through a movie listening to, "Oh I sure do hope I'll get to play for my favorite football team when I grow up, oh yes sir e bob!"? It gets annoying when the character you have to watch for almost two unendurable hours acts and sounds like this

Image

At least those creatures had the common decency to rape people and pee in their eye. Not Rudy, he's just soooo ace.
Sorry, I hate that movie.

As for Funny Games, I don't remember if this is different in the remake but in the original after the son dies and the killers leave there is a few very long sequences where nothing really happens and its boring as shit. Haneke is trying to make you uncomfortable but the way he goes about it fails here and your left looking around the room to see anything that might be the slightest bit more interesting. Also, the sequence where the killer rewinds the film and stops Anna from killing the other killer is too obvious, it would have worked better for the film if she hadn't tried at all.


Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:27 pm
Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
I didn't like Rudy either for those reasons either(I also felt the exact same way about Miracle), but then again I REALLy don't care for inspirational sports films in general as they're usually more cliched to the extreme then any other type of film and I mostly find them completely uninvolving(though that could mostly be because i'm not really much of a sports fan)I had the misfortune of being forced to sit through that film twice, If I never see it again it will be too soon.


Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:33 pm
Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
Vexer wrote:
I didn't like Rudy either for those reasons either(I also felt the exact same way about Miracle), but then again I REALLy don't care for inspirational sports films in general as they're usually more cliched to the extreme then any other type of film and I mostly find them completely uninvolving(though that could mostly be because i'm not really much of a sports fan)I had the misfortune of being forced to sit through that film twice, If I never see it again it will be too soon.


I actually saw this back in eighth grade. Didn't think it was a bad film, just not an especially memorable one. Sean Astin did a decent job tho.


Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:36 pm
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Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
JJoshay wrote:

THE EMOTIONAL WALLOP IT HAMMERS (hammers being the word) AT ITS CONCLUSION IS, IS UNDENIABLE! The only reason I was happy at the end of that film was because it was over. I could have cared less about Rudy, in the movie he was an annoying little pissant, wasn't any fault of Astin or the real Rudy (who I know nothing about) but its just the way he was written. How long can we go through a movie listening to, "Oh I sure do hope I'll get to play for my favorite football team when I grow up, oh yes sir e bob!"? It gets annoying when the character you have to watch for almost two unendurable hours acts and sounds like this

Image

At least those creatures had the common decency to rape people and pee in their eye. Not Rudy, he's just soooo ace.
Sorry, I hate that movie.



Haha fair enough, it's cool, you and I just have different opinions on it. Maybe it's nostalgia, since I saw the movie back when I was like 12-13 and I loved it then - but I still love it now (it's on TV constantly). If it was a completely contrived story it might've come across as corny but the fact that it was based on a true story was something I found to be impressive. I guess you either view Astin's character as annoying and wimpy or likable and someone you can root for. I fell into the latter category. Honestly, I dare you to show that movie to any rabid sports fan (like me) who has a love for film as well and bet that he doesn't tear up when Rudy makes that sack. Then again, I've always sucked at betting, so maybe I'm completely wrong there too.

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UPDATED 8/26 - Top 100 List *Updated*


Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:53 pm
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Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
Meatloaf wrote:
What's with all the hate for Die Hard 2? Die Hard is a perfect film that is one of the best movies of all time. Die Hard 2 is just slightly below that level and therefore deserves a rating of 3.5. It's simple mathematics really.


Die Hard 2 is simply awful. I can tolerate the third in the franchise despite its many many shortcomings but i cannot bring myself to watch the second installment again. It is horribly done, and lazily slapped together. 4/10 for me


Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:57 pm
Post Re: Excellent films that you don't quite consider masterpieces
oafolay wrote:
79. Miller's Crossing
81. The War Zone


Out of curiosity, what did you find to be flawed about Miller's Crossing and The War Zone?


Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:11 am
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